Posting a letter on a travelling post office

[Ken H]

The old TPO's used to have a post box so you could post a late letter while the train was at a station

Here is a picture of a posting box in the side of a train at Penzance in 1985

Late posting box in the side of the Paddington Postal at Penzance station, 11 Sept 1985.

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Did anyone ever post a letter in one of these?
if you still have it, an image of the cover would be nice.
Thanks

 

[cav1975]

I used to cycle from Finchley to post letters at Waterloo for the Isle of Wight in the 70s. Sorry I don't have any covers as I was sending.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I did, and I do still have the postcard, but I'm not sure where exactly it is in order to dig it up for a photo!

It did get a special postmark, and for the postcard itself what I did was write the entire formation on it and indicated in which vehicle it was posted, when and where.

 

[furnessvale]

I did, and I do still have the postcard, but I'm not sure where exactly it is in order to dig it up for a photo!

It did get a special postmark, and for the postcard itself what I did was write the entire formation on it and indicated in which vehicle it was posted, when and where.

Before first and second class, the post box used to say, "letters posted in this box must bear an extra 1d stamp" or similar wording.

 

[WesternLancer]

The old TPO's used to have a post box so you could post a late letter while the train was at a station

Here is a picture of a posting box in the side of a train at Penzance in 1985

Late posting box in the side of the Paddington Postal at Penzance station, 11 Sept 1985.

Explore mailrail's 4654 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

Did anyone ever post a letter in one of these?
if you still have it, an image of the cover would be nice.
Thanks

Yes, I used to use them from time to time. I recall writing some cards on a train to London, probably Christmas cards, and posting them in one on a TPO at St Pancras station as I recall. Probably late 1980s or early 90s.
Occasionally I missed a chance to do that if I only had a 2nd class stamp on me (as you will have seen they had to be 1st).

I recall they were usually franked (by hand) with a postmark than indicated the name of the TPO service you posted them on

this is the kind of thing I recall - image here: nothing that fancy but distinctive:

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I made a point of going to see TPOs on the last night of TPO operations in Jan 2004 (and indeed went over a few nights before and after Christmas that winter to see the services that passed closest to me - which I think was on the NE-SW route) and made sure I posted a few items to myself and friends who appreciate the item - which I have kept but not sure where to find them at the moment to copy.

I recall the items posted on the final night took a while before they reached me (a week maybe) making me fear they had got lost, but they did turn up eventually.

 

[S&CLER]

It wasn't just TPO's that had these late posting facilities. Liverpool tramways provided posting boxes on late cars leaving termini around 10 p.m. (e.g. route 4 leaving Penny Lane at 10.23 pm in September 1935, which is the date I have information for). You could post anything, letter or postcard, which cost 1d, without a surcharge, but not "halfpenny matter" (printed matter, e.g. newspapers). There were posting boxes on 4 Birkenhead tram routes as well as 6 Wallasey bus routes and 5 Crosville routes in the Wirral. I expect there were similar facilities in other cities and towns.

 

[Shimbleshanks]

What would happen if, through ignorance, you posted a letter into a West Country-bound TPO at Paddington that was addressed to Manchester? Presumably the letter would be delayed while it was sent back and forth across the postal network. But if you did have some knowledge of where the TPO was heading, I suppose you could enjoy some significant time savings compared with posting in a normal postbox.

 

[Shimbleshanks]

It wasn't just TPO's that had these late posting facilities. Liverpool tramways provided posting boxes on late cars leaving termini around 10 p.m. (e.g. route 4 leaving Penny Lane at 10.23 pm in September 1935, which is the date I have information for). You could post anything, letter or postcard, which cost 1d, without a surcharge, but not "halfpenny matter" (printed matter, e.g. newspapers). There were posting boxes on 4 Birkenhead tram routes as well as 6 Wallasey bus routes and 5 Crosville routes in the Wirral. I expect there were similar facilities in other cities and towns.

The Isle of Man Electric Railway also had something like this for post and parcels, I believe.

 

[WesternLancer]

What would happen if, through ignorance, you posted a letter into a West Country-bound TPO at Paddington that was addressed to Manchester? Presumably the letter would be delayed while it was sent back and forth across the postal network. But if you did have some knowledge of where the TPO was heading, I suppose you could enjoy some significant time savings compared with posting in a normal postbox.

well, I think that was what happened on the last night to me - I posted letters to myself on a train heading away from my home! Hence a bit of a delay before I got them - but I guess in reality they would simply be taken off the train at it's destination or a stopping point en route and thrown into the sorting machinery at the relevant sorting office and then be on their way by the next most logical method.

 

[WesternLancer]

The old TPO's used to have a post box so you could post a late letter while the train was at a station

Here is a picture of a posting box in the side of a train at Penzance in 1985

Late posting box in the side of the Paddington Postal at Penzance station, 11 Sept 1985.

Explore mailrail's 4654 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

Did anyone ever post a letter in one of these?
if you still have it, an image of the cover would be nice.
Thanks

There is a TPO support group at the Nene Valley Railway I think - they may have images of a range of TPO postmarked items maybe. Also TPOs at the Great Central Railway.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Many years ago I used to write a monthly article for a club magazine produced in the West Midlands. It was always a rush to get copy to the editor in time. I lived in Kent and on one occasion missed the last post locally. Nothing for it but jump on the train up to Charing Cross, cross to Euston and post it on the TPO that ran via Birmingham. Fortunately I had a season ticket so the trip didn't cost me anything extra. So, a 'genuine' use of the facility.

I think that Birmingham trams had postboxes before the Second World War.

 

[Ken H]

I imagine there were first day covers of new stamps with a railway theme that got a TOP postmark, probably worth a bit now.

 

[Welly]

I did, and I do still have the postcard, but I'm not sure where exactly it is in order to dig it up for a photo!

It did get a special postmark, and for the postcard itself what I did was write the entire formation on it and indicated in which vehicle it was posted, when and where.

We both sent ourselves a card that same evening! It was the Up TPO from Glasgow Central to London hauled by the NSE liveried 86401. Unfortunately my postcard is also buried in my files.

 

[WesternLancer]

I imagine there were first day covers of new stamps with a railway theme that got a TOP postmark, probably worth a bit now.

def some on e-bay etc when I googled the topic

 

[pdeaves]

I once saw a TPO in York station. With no shop close by from which to buy a postcard I simply addressed and stamped a page out of a note book. I then posted said page through the slot. I found it very difficult to get the 'letter' though but managed in the end. The page had been delivered with TPO cancel by the time I got home from holiday. Only a long time afterwards I realised why the body side post box was so difficult. They had been sealed and were not in public use any more. Thus, I may have a TPO cancel with a very rare date!

 

[mailbyrail]

As my User name suggests, this is an area close to my heart!
I posted many times into TPOs up and down the country, there was a closely inter-connected network that guaranteed next day delivery. Initially for an extra half old penny extra, then half new penny, it was one of the few things you needed a half penny stamp for. Then with the ending of the halfpenny, it cost an extra penny. The 'Late Fee' was then abolished and only first class mail could be sent.
The network was well linked so that posting in the wrong direction, at least on the first half of the journey, wasn't a problem and the letter was put off as a mis-sort and headed back on a train the right way.
I used the TPO to post home from Nottingham to Merseyside when writing to my parents when I was at University - still have some of the envelopes.
Yes, first day covers were sought after at the time, particularly ones with a special 'AM' postmark, needed because all TPOs carried a date stamp which was set when the journey began and not changed at midnight. This meant a new issue stamp could be posted onto a train after midnight but receive the previous day's date, something the GPO was not happy about. Thus an even rarer variety of postmark was needed to maintain the correct calendar without disrupting the normal TPO handstamp procedures.
Interest in the topic amongst collectors has reduced since the last trains ran, earlier markings are still collectable but the later ones struggle to find buyers
There's a few books on the subject, both in terms of railway operations and also from the postal perspective, plus there's a couple of specialist societies if anybody is interested in more detail.
Globally, TPOs have almost vanished, but they still run in Russia, China and Sri Lanka

 

[Taunton]

When living in Glasgow in 1973-4 I used to be late with things like sending off credit card payments, only the evening before cutoff, or just general letters, and would drive up the curved ramp at Central from the street to right alongside the couple of postal cars in the bay at the outer end of the station, seemingly quite unattended. They were presumably shunted on just before departure. The 1p surcharge was in force, which was a nightmare if you only had 1st class value stamps.

 

[181]

When I lived in York in 1993-4 I once posted something to myself in a TPO at King's Cross, but sadly it was delivered without any postmark at all.

 

[Beebman]

My Dad sent himself a postcard on the TPO from Weymouth during a family holiday there in the late 1960s. It look over a week to arrive at our home in Reading. It had a special postmark and I do still have it somewhere but again it's buried, probably in a box in the attic.

 

[WesternLancer]

As my User name suggests, this is an area close to my heart!
I posted many times into TPOs up and down the country, there was a closely inter-connected network that guaranteed next day delivery. Initially for an extra half old penny extra, then half new penny, it was one of the few things you needed a half penny stamp for. Then with the ending of the halfpenny, it cost an extra penny. The 'Late Fee' was then abolished and only first class mail could be sent.
The network was well linked so that posting in the wrong direction, at least on the first half of the journey, wasn't a problem and the letter was put off as a mis-sort and headed back on a train the right way.
I used the TPO to post home from Nottingham to Merseyside when writing to my parents when I was at University - still have some of the envelopes.
Yes, first day covers were sought after at the time, particularly ones with a special 'AM' postmark, needed because all TPOs carried a date stamp which was set when the journey began and not changed at midnight. This meant a new issue stamp could be posted onto a train after midnight but receive the previous day's date, something the GPO was not happy about. Thus an even rarer variety of postmark was needed to maintain the correct calendar without disrupting the normal TPO handstamp procedures.
Interest in the topic amongst collectors has reduced since the last trains ran, earlier markings are still collectable but the later ones struggle to find buyers
There's a few books on the subject, both in terms of railway operations and also from the postal perspective, plus there's a couple of specialist societies if anybody is interested in more detail.
Globally, TPOs have almost vanished, but they still run in Russia, China and Sri Lanka

very interesting to read your post and the detail included!

 

[calopez]

The Darjeeling Himalaya Railway had (or maybe still has) travelling post offices, or at least, mail vans with post boxes. I used one to send a postcard home, but was disappointed to find they didn't use a special postmark!

 

[AlbertBeale]

What would happen if, through ignorance, you posted a letter into a West Country-bound TPO at Paddington that was addressed to Manchester? Presumably the letter would be delayed while it was sent back and forth across the postal network. But if you did have some knowledge of where the TPO was heading, I suppose you could enjoy some significant time savings compared with posting in a normal postbox.

Yes - I used to use them quite often as a way of having an extra hour or two to finish writing something of an evening before posting it off. (Though I rarely used other than the north-facing London terminal stations - I worked at Kings Cross, so KX, St P and Euston were all a few minutes on foot or on my pushbike.) I remember when the system changed and you no longer had to pay the extra 1p postage. (Or was it 1d, becoming half a p, before it was abolished?) When it became just the same as the ordinary postage rate, but you had extra time to post things, I'd use it not just for letters, but for distributing newsletters/newspapers I was involved in publishing "hot off the press", if I wanted to get odd copies out to people quickly, ahead of the normal distribution.

I think there were post boxes on some of the relevant stations, as well as on the side of the trains, so if you wanted to post something securely (ie bypassing the sorting system before the item left London), but you wanted to do so before the mail train arrived to load up, then that was an option. (Again, for the extra nominal amount, originally; those boxes mentioned the extra fee on them too.) When the mail train arrived, one of the staff would empty that station box and seal it until someone - no idea whose job it was - opened it again the next day.

As has been mentioned, making the most of the system required having an idea of which parts of the country were served by which mail train routes; but for me, that was just part of the "general knowledge" needed to live a communicative life!

One thing not mentioned by anyone here I think is that besides posting regular post, you could also send Registered Post [tracked, segregated handling, and insured (ie what was combined with Express to become what's now called Special Delivery)]; but in that case you had to hand it in to staff on the train, not use the box, and get your proof of posting and so on (as at a regular, ie stationary, Post Office). I only ever used that system a handful of times. Of course you could also hand in non-registered items direct to the staff rather than using the box; I'd often get greeted by one of the TPO staff standing in an open doorway, offering to take a letter from me, as I cycled up the platform to find the train's letter box - I guess it made sense for them to check that anyone posting something was doing so on the correct mail train for the destination of the letter. (I always was, of course...)

All in all, the ability to post direct onto the trains was a very civilised and useful adjunct to the existence of the TPOs,

 

[WesternLancer]

Yes - I used to use them quite often as a way of having an extra hour or two to finish writing something of an evening before posting it off. (Though I rarely used other than the north-facing London terminal stations - I worked at Kings Cross, so KX, St P and Euston were all a few minutes on foot or on my pushbike.) I remember when the system changed and you no longer had to pay the extra 1p postage. (Or was it 1d, becoming half a p, before it was abolished?) When it became just the same as the ordinary postage rate, but you had extra time to post things, I'd use it not just for letters, but for distributing newsletters/newspapers I was involved in publishing "hot off the press", if I wanted to get odd copies out to people quickly, ahead of the normal distribution.

I think there were post boxes on some of the relevant stations, as well as on the side of the trains, so if you wanted to post something securely (ie bypassing the sorting system before the item left London), but you wanted to do so before the mail train arrived to load up, then that was an option. (Again, for the extra nominal amount, originally; those boxes mentioned the extra fee on them too.) When the mail train arrived, one of the staff would empty that station box and seal it until someone - no idea whose job it was - opened it again the next day.

As has been mentioned, making the most of the system required having an idea of which parts of the country were served by which mail train routes; but for me, that was just part of the "general knowledge" needed to live a communicative life!

One thing not mentioned by anyone here I think is that besides posting regular post, you could also send Registered Post [tracked, segregated handling, and insured (ie what was combined with Express to become what's now called Special Delivery)]; but in that case you had to hand it in to staff on the train, not use the box, and get your proof of posting and so on (as at a regular, ie stationary, Post Office). I only ever used that system a handful of times. Of course you could also hand in non-registered items direct to the staff rather than using the box; I'd often get greeted by one of the TPO staff standing in an open doorway, offering to take a letter from me, as I cycled up the platform to find the train's letter box - I guess it made sense for them to check that anyone posting something was doing so on the correct mail train for the destination of the letter. (I always was, of course...)

All in all, the ability to post direct onto the trains was a very civilised and useful adjunct to the existence of the TPOs,

I'd not realised the system of being able to send registered stuff. Assume that meant a member of staff with the relevant paperwork and cash system in place to sort it out. I certainly also handed post to staff in open doorways, esp on the final nights services that I was going to see and photograph. I have a vague recollection of someone on duty going to get another member of staff (I assumed more senior) to take the item from me on at least one occasion.
By photographing the trains in the final few weeks I was able to get my prints developed and ordered a second set, so that I could hand the staff copies of the pics I'd taken (which were essentially of them at work) on a subsequent night. I remember the staff involved being very appreciative of that. As the services ran up to the final night, and others turned out to take photos, some staff clearly had a sense they were working the final workings of a historic thing that had a very long history in communications technology.

 

[Ken H]

Really kicking myself for never getting round to posting a TPO letter to myself now.

 

[AlbertBeale]

I'd not realised the system of being able to send registered stuff. Assume that meant a member of staff with the relevant paperwork and cash system in place to sort it out. I certainly also handed post to staff in open doorways, esp on the final nights services that I was going to see and photograph. I have a vague recollection of someone on duty going to get another member of staff (I assumed more senior) to take the item from me on at least one occasion.
By photographing the trains in the final few weeks I was able to get my prints developed and ordered a second set, so that I could hand the staff copies of the pics I'd taken (which were essentially of them at work) on a subsequent night. I remember the staff involved being very appreciative of that. As the services ran up to the final night, and others turned out to take photos, some staff clearly had a sense they were working the final workings of a historic thing that had a very long history in communications technology.

I can't remember now, since it was so long ago and not an aspect of the service that I wanted to use other than very rarely, but perhaps with Registered post you had to have put sufficient postage stamps on the package first, just as you did with ordinary items ... they obviously didn't sell stamps on the train!

 

[mailbyrail]

You needed the right postage and registration paperwork prepared to post onto the train all completed before handing over to the post office crew on the train. They applied the registration label and gave you a receipt - no money changed hands and there were no postage stamps available on the train. This applied right up to the final night of service. When barcoding was applied to registered (or whatever name applied to the service at the time), the letter was scanned on board and tracked in the same way as letters posted anywhere else.
You weren't too popular if you wanted to post a few registered letters - some station stops were tightly timed and the crew had other duties to carry out loading and unloading which took priority.

 

[Beebman]

I've found the postcard which my Dad posted on the TPO at Weymouth, the date on it is June 27th 1969. The postmarks are not very clear but hopefully they provide some information. (I've included the other side of the card as it's of railway interest - it's the former Portland Branch bridge over the Weymouth Swannery which was kept for a while to store rolling stock and is an abiding memory of family holidays there in the late 1960s.)

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Do any heritage railways run rolling stock with a "TPO" style on-board post box?

 

[mailbyrail]

Nene Valley and Great Central both run TPO mail bag exchange demonstations. So did the GWR centre at Didcot - not heard about that operation for a while

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Nene Valley and Great Central both run TPO mail bag exchange demonstations. So did the GWR centre at Didcot - not heard about that operation for a while

The TPO at Didcot Railway Centre was featured on a re-run (on the "Yesterday" TV channel) of Michael Portillo's "Great British Railway Journeys" (Series 3) tonight, as it happens. Episode first broadcast in 2012.