Potential Labour Party split (Split now happened).

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by thenorthern, 18 Feb 2019.

  1. thenorthern

    thenorthern Established Member

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    According to multiple press reports there is a possibility of a split in the Labour Party with some MPs on the right of the party who are pro-EU wanting to form a new party.



    I personally don't think it would be a good idea as it happened in 1981 with the Social Democratic Party for similar reasons but realistically the Social Democratic Party never really got anywhere.
     
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  3. Shaw S Hunter

    Shaw S Hunter Established Member

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    For the sake of British politics I hope it does happen but with the proviso that the Tories have a similar split. And that is not out of the question.
     
  4. thenorthern

    thenorthern Established Member

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    The problem is media access particularly at election time. At the moment the Conservatives and Labour have the most as coverage/participation in the broadcast media as they have been the two largest parties in General elections since 1922, the Lib Dems get some coverage but much less particularly since 2015, the SNP and Plaid Cymru get a large amount of coverage in Scotland and Wales respectively. Northern Ireland is a separate matter as it has 5 "main" political parties that only operate within the province.

    Should a new party be formed it would not be entitled to the same amount of media participation/Coverage as the Labour and Conservative Party currently enjoy at a general election as they would essentially be a new party without an electoral history/precedent.
     
  5. bramling

    bramling Established Member

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    I don’t think the Conservatives would split. Like the rest of the population they’re divided on the subject of Europe, but apart from that they are loosely united in terms of political leaning. The Labour split is far more fundamental - moderate left versus hard left.

    What could happen is the Conservatives simply implode over Brexit divisions, but that’s not the same as a split.
     
    Last edited: 18 Feb 2019
  6. Xenophon PCDGS

    Xenophon PCDGS Veteran Member

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    Let us see how many of these Labour MPs actually leave the party when the announcement is made later on Monday morning.
     
  7. Groningen

    Groningen Established Member

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    The Sun speaks of 100 pro EU parlement members forming a new Labour party.
     
  8. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Yes, it would have to happen on both sides, otherwise the FPTP system would guarantee right wing Government for the foreseeable :(

    But if it did - a shakeup of British politics to a more coalition-based, collaborative approach sounds to me like about the best thing that could ever come of Brexit.
     
  9. SteveP29

    SteveP29 Member

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    Let them go, if they are as good as they seem to believe, then they'll successfully form this new party based on their principles and the electorate in the constituencies they stand in will vote them in.
    Labour can then get on with showing a united front (whether right or wrong) without the in fighting that has been magnified massively by the media

    Tories won't split, its all about power and self preservation for them, I could see them possibly imploding though as you say.
     
  10. overthewater

    overthewater Established Member

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    Many would lose there seats..
     
  11. furnessvale

    furnessvale Established Member

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    I think a reasonable number are facing deselection in favour of Momentum candidates so feel they have nothing to lose.
     
  12. Typhoon

    Typhoon Member

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    I think they are being optimistic (from their view). I think they will be lucky if it gets to double figures. Others may sit on their hands to see what happens (in particular to see if any money comes in).

    There was all the talk of Tory MPs joining UKIP. How many? Two.
    Labour joining SDP. Many more (24?) but I could only count 4 of those sitting Labour MPs who switched to the SDP who were re-elected in 1983.

    "Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it." - George Santayana.
     
  13. Ken H

    Ken H Established Member

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    Not convinced about coalitions

    Germany has proportional representation
    So they are stuck with the centerist CDU/CSU + SPD coalition for ever, even though all 3 parties are failing in the polls.

    So instead of a party winning by its force of argument, they cobble together an agreement behind closed doors and promises made before the election are cast aside in order to grab power.
     
  14. FelixtheCat

    FelixtheCat Established Member

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  15. PR1Berske

    PR1Berske Established Member

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    The seven Labour MPs who now sit as Independents are:

    Luciana Berger (Liverpool Wavertree)
    Chuka Umunna (Streatham)
    Ann Coffey (Stockport)
    Chris Leslie (Nottingham East)
    Angela Smith (Penistone and Stocksbridge)
    Mike Gapes (Ilford South)
    Gavin Shuker (Luton South)
     
  16. Ken H

    Ken H Established Member

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    Thats 7 who will need a new job at the next GE then.
     
  17. SteveP29

    SteveP29 Member

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    How many of their constituents will demand by elections?

    And will they get them?

    Apart from Berger, Leslie and Umunna, I've not heard of them, so not quite as memorable as the gang of 4 that were the figureheads of the SDP
     
  18. YorkshireBear

    YorkshireBear Established Member

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    They all must be very disenfranchised with the current labour party to effectively accept they will lose their jobs within the next few years and face incredible abuse from all quarters. I don't think any of them are naive enough to think that anything other than that is going to happen now they have quit the Labour Party. They did not look happy to be on TV talking about this at all.
     
  19. Puffing Devil

    Puffing Devil Established Member

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    Another party split caused by Brexit. Without that distraction, there could have been a focus on reigning in Corbyn and putting up a credible opposition to the Tories. Instead, we have a party led by a Eurosceptic who is more concerned about getting into power than fighting the greatest threat to our countries stability and prosperity for a generation. Meanwhile, we have a band of tories pushing an ever further right-wing agenda without any real checks and balances.
     
  20. Mutant Lemming

    Mutant Lemming Established Member

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    it will be good riddance - let's hope all the Blairites leave and let the Labour party get back to being a party of the people instead of self serving career Blairites.
     
  21. Typhoon

    Typhoon Member

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    To be honest two are past retirement age now (Ann Coffey is 72) so may not have stood. Chuka Umunna will have no problems getting a job.
    I also think there is a fair chance that Chris Leslie would be offered something because of his Treasury background and, if he's got any sense, he should take it.
     
  22. Puffing Devil

    Puffing Devil Established Member

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    Great - that'll be another 20 years of Tory rule. There is little appetite in the country for a hard left. It's the reason that the Lib Dems ended up in coalition with the Cameron. Corbyn is the modern-day equivalent of Foot. You may have hated the Blairites, they did give us a left-leaning government. Not going to happen with Corbyn.
     
  23. cjmillsnun

    cjmillsnun Established Member

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    Back to being unelectable you mean. Like him or not (and I don’t) Blair and his ilk got Labour into power and got things like the minimum wage in that benefitted people. Right now they are more unelectable than the Tories who themselves are in a complete mess right now.
     
  24. Aictos

    Aictos On Moderation

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    Is it not possible for a new party to be formed of moderate Labour and Conservatives who find themselves sharing some common ground otherwise those unhappy with the way that Labour and Conservatives could also join with the Liberal Democrats.

    It's a pity that Christian Socialism hasn't taken off here as it has done in other countries such as Germany.
     
  25. SteveP29

    SteveP29 Member

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    What was hard left about Gordon Brown like?
     
  26. Puffing Devil

    Puffing Devil Established Member

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    Harder than Blair, plus the taint of Iraq.
     
  27. Groningen

    Groningen Established Member

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    Well more choice and the Conservatives being the winners if the Labour vote gets split 50/50!
     
  28. Howardh

    Howardh Established Member

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    Labour won't get my vote until they return to the centre-ground occupied by Blair. I reckon many floating voters like myself shudder at the thought of a left-wing Labour party in power, and in order to get into power we are the exact people they need to vote for them.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 18 Feb 2019
  29. Howardh

    Howardh Established Member

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    I haven't looked at the constituency results, and boundaries may be changing before then anyway, but it would help the break-aways if the Libdems stood aside in those seats. A Labour voter may well vote Indy tactically if it resulted in keeping the Tories out.
     
  30. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    I would be more inclined to vote for a centre-left social democratic party. Indeed, if the SNP fielded a candidate in my constituency they would probably get my vote.

    I do however also want the Trade Unionism out of such a party. I support the idea of unions in relevant industries (though I'm not a member of one), though I do find the approach of the RMT to be laughable - but I don't think they should be part of or related to Government any more than any other members' organisation should.
     
  31. Mutant Lemming

    Mutant Lemming Established Member

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    Thinking that has come from decades of continual media propaganda from the right wing press. Some of the greatest institutions , like the NHS came from a proper socialist labour party. Some of the dirtiest underhand lies have come from a Blairite second tory party - you're welcome to it.
     

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