Preston To Didcot Parkway

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dave87016

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Hi all if I purchase a Off Peak return from Preston to Didcot Parkway with a railcard it valid anytime on Virgin trains however not till 09:30am from Birmingham New Street as that is a XC service I want to use the 07:17am from Preston arrive Birmingham 08:55 and then get the 09:33am Birmingham to Oxford, but the ticket isnt valid on the 07:17am as I get to Birmingham at 08:55am

So my question am I permitted to get the off peak return ticket travel on the 07:17am to Birmingham ( as its valid on that train) but not on the 09:04am to Oxford then wait till 09:33am to travel on XC service to Oxford?

Thanks in advance for any help and replies provided
 
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calc7

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Restriction code is 2S: http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?orig=PRE&dest=DID&rlc= &rte=267&ldn=0&tkt=SVR so valid on services after 0754. For you, it is valid before that on Virgin Trains services due to the Virgin railcard easement.

No mention is made of the 2V CrossCountry-imposed restriction (it is referred to in certain other restriction codes, so lack of mention here means it is not applicable, imo). Therefore you can use the 09.04 from Birmingham to Oxford.
 

sonic2009

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Yes you are valid to travel on the 0717 to Birmingham in order to catch the 0933.

Ticket's restriction explained here http://brfares.com/#faredetail?orig=PRE&dest=DID&rlc=YNG&rte=267&ldn=0&tkt=SVR

On this page it states :

2) Holders of Off-Peak ticket
types SVS/SVR, which are
discounted using 16-25, Senior
, Disabled Persons, HM Forces
and Family & Friends Railcards
, New Deal Photocards and
Inter-Rail (Code 70) Cards,
may use ANY Virgin_train
service, provided that the
route on the ticket is not
"Virgin Trains Only" and the
journey being made is priced
by Virgin Trains. If the
journey is not priced by
Virgin Trains then the stated
Off-Peak restictions apply.

The Off Peak Return Preston to Didcot Parkway ROUTE BANBURY is priced by Virgin.
 

dave87016

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Thing is though on searching the websites for fares and times ( East Coast and Virgin Websites) the Off Peak Return Preston to Didcot ( £55:75 with railcard ) ROUTE VIA BANBURY shows as not valid on trains before 08:17am from Preston to Didcot
 

sonic2009

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Therefore you can use the 09.04 from Birmingham to Oxford.
I think the OP has left the 12 minute minimum connection time at Birmingham New Street.

Although i would suggest changing at Wolverhampton. The 0717 from Preston arrives at 0831 usually on Platform 4 and the Bournemouth (via Banbury) train leaves from the same platform usually at 0841.
 

calc7

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Thing is though on searching the websites for fares and times ( East Coast and Virgin Websites) the Off Peak Return Preston to Didcot ( £55:75 with railcard ) ROUTE VIA BANBURY shows as not valid on trains before 08:17am from Preston to Didcot
Probably to do with the fact that it has been written in some places that the Virgin railcard easement is only valid "when all travel is with Virgin Trains on a Virgin Trains-priced flow". Booking engines interpret it this way, anyway.

In reality, so long as by the time you are using another operator's services the time is that for the proper "off-peak" for the ticket (i.e. after 0754 for yours) then there isn't really an issue. Virgin Train Managers don't seem to mind.
 

dave87016

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Thats my point even though it is showing no off peak return fares with railcard from Preston - Didcot ROUTE VIA BANBURY on trains before 08:17am from Preston - Didcot Parkway as "off peak returns" are valid on Virgin trains before that , I intend to get one and travel on 07:17am Virgin Train Preston train to BHM or WVH as another poster suggested, my issue is the Birmingham to Oxford section as I believe XC are different with the off peak returns even with railcard
 

calc7

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Dave - as mentioned, the restrictions apply to the flow, not to the trains. A train that is "off-peak" on one ticket can be peak on another. The suggested ticket is valid on all trains after 0754 so long as you are on a permitted route. The Virgin railcard easement gets you to Birmingham in time for the 0904 (or change at Wolverhampton as sonic2009 suggests) and you may use the XC from there. Any issues, ask the guard to look up the restriction code on his machine. He will find the same 2S as we have.
 

dave87016

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Thanks for your help guys much appreciated and rest assured I will take ll advice on here change at Wolverhampton and board the next available service ( 08:41am) to Oxford and if questioned will ask the guard to look it up on his machine even though I am not travelling till August, I will post on here how I get on
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Just a question regarding the websites showing cant book a train from Pre-Did before 08:17am even though I am travelling on the 07:17am and then 08:41am from Wolverhampton - Oxford if I went down to Virgin trains station and purchased my "off peak return " with railcard would it be possible to book seats for the trains I wish to travel on? I know which trains in both directions
 

LexyBoy

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Probably to do with the fact that it has been written in some places that the Virgin railcard easement is only valid "when all travel is with Virgin Trains on a Virgin Trains-priced flow". Booking engines interpret it this way, anyway.

In reality, so long as by the time you are using another operator's services the time is that for the proper "off-peak" for the ticket (i.e. after 0754 for yours) then there isn't really an issue. Virgin Train Managers don't seem to mind.
This is why the Off Peak Return isn't shown as valid I think; because not all of the journey is on Virgin the Railcard easement doesn't apply. The ticket is valid on the 0817 but not the 0717.

To what extent this is enforced I don't know, and I'm aware that announcements are ambiguous so it is debatable whether this interpretation would stand if challenged.

I'd also agree that changing at Wolves is preferable.
 

LexyBoy

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Hi Lexy boy but as other posters have said restriction 2S clearly states that is infact actually valid on the 07:17am
Restriction 2S states that it is not valid on the 0717; the text quoted by sonic2009 is from the general info which accompanies all SVR fares.
Code:
Restriction applies:
Monday to Friday only.
No travel restrictions on
other days.

OUTWARD and RETURN Journeys:
Valid on services which are
scheduled to depart at or
after 0754.

NOTE THAT ON THE FRIDAY BEFORE
BANK HOLIDAYS, AFTERNOON
RESTRICTIONS WILL NOT APPLY TO
OFF-PEAK TICKETS FOR TRAVEL
FROM/VIA/TO EUSTON, WATFORD
JUNCTION AND MILTON KEYNES
CENTRAL. NORMAL MORNING PEAK
RESTRICTIONS WILL APPLY.

This restriction is lifted all
day from Thursday 24th Dec
2009 until Friday 1st Jan 2010
inclusive.
It would only be valid due to the Virgin easement on Railcards which does not technically apply to your journey - depending on which version of the easement you read! It is my understanding that the most recent wording is as follows:
(source):
“Holders of Off-Peak ticket types SVS/SVR which are discounted using a [Railcard] can travel on Virgin Train services at any time, provided that all travel is on Virgin Trains services only. (This easement is not permitted for travel between Milton Keynes Central and London Euston).”
However the earlier wording would allow it for you journey (source):
Customers holding an Off Peak ticket with a Railcard discount are allowed to travel at Peak times on Virgin Trains services, on most of our routes. We are able to offer this to our customers on routes where we are the owners of the fare flow.
This covers all of our services, with the exception of London Euston to Milton Keynes journeys. The fares between Milton Keynes and London Euston are set by a separate train operating company, London Midland trains, and therefore we cannot offer the same easement for journeys that are solely on this route.
My advice would be to email Virgin for confirmation if there's time before your journey, or make you booking and ask for reservations at a station - I would expect a Virgin managed station would be familiar with the easement so shouldn't have any trouble. If not then I would probably say it's OK as others have said that VT guards will be fine with it (I don't regularly use VT so I don't know).

The whole situation is a bit of a mess IMO; Virgin seem to like creating funny fares rules which only apply to them and then not documenting them properly.
 

sonic2009

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LexyBoy:1123589 said:
Hi Lexy boy but as other posters have said restriction 2S clearly states that is infact actually valid on the 07:17am
Restriction 2S states that it is not valid on the 0717; the text quoted by sonic2009 is from the general info which accompanies all SVR fares.
Code:
Restriction applies:
Monday to Friday only.
No travel restrictions on
other days.

OUTWARD and RETURN Journeys:
Valid on services which are
scheduled to depart at or
after 0754.

NOTE THAT ON THE FRIDAY BEFORE
BANK HOLIDAYS, AFTERNOON
RESTRICTIONS WILL NOT APPLY TO
OFF-PEAK TICKETS FOR TRAVEL
FROM/VIA/TO EUSTON, WATFORD
JUNCTION AND MILTON KEYNES
CENTRAL. NORMAL MORNING PEAK
RESTRICTIONS WILL APPLY.

This restriction is lifted all
day from Thursday 24th Dec
2009 until Friday 1st Jan 2010
inclusive.
It would only be valid due to the Virgin easement on Railcards which does not technically apply to your journey - depending on which version of the easement you read! It is my understanding that the most recent wording is as follows:
(source):
“Holders of Off-Peak ticket types SVS/SVR which are discounted using a [Railcard] can travel on Virgin Train services at any time, provided that all travel is on Virgin Trains services only. (This easement is not permitted for travel between Milton Keynes Central and London Euston).”
However the earlier wording would allow it for you journey (source):
Customers holding an Off Peak ticket with a Railcard discount are allowed to travel at Peak times on Virgin Trains services, on most of our routes. We are able to offer this to our customers on routes where we are the owners of the fare flow.
This covers all of our services, with the exception of London Euston to Milton Keynes journeys. The fares between Milton Keynes and London Euston are set by a separate train operating company, London Midland trains, and therefore we cannot offer the same easement for journeys that are solely on this route.
My advice would be to email Virgin for confirmation if there's time before your journey, or make you booking and ask for reservations at a station - I would expect a Virgin managed station would be familiar with the easement so shouldn't have any trouble. If not then I would probably say it's OK as others have said that VT guards will be fine with it (I don't regularly use VT so I don't know).

The whole situation is a bit of a mess IMO; Virgin seem to like creating funny fares rules which only apply to them and then not documenting them properly.
See my post from yesterday i listed point 2 of that restriction.
 

snail

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calc7

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Hasn't the easement been restricted to journeys made entirely on Virgin Trains. Because the OP is changing to XC that would make it invalid.
Yes - I mentioned this in post #6 but also referenced the "off the record" fact that whether in practice VT guards will mind (and XC guards shouldn't - as the 09.03 train is after the 07.54 threshold for ticket validity) is another story.
 

sonic2009

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Upon having a conversation with travel centre staff today at Birmingham New Street.

They confirmed to me that it would not be valid, as an agreement with the other TOCs was not in place.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk
 

dave87016

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Thanks for your help sonic - I think I will have to get the 07:17am Preston - Birmingham New St ( 08:55am arrival) and then 09:33am to Oxford then FGW to Didcot

Thanks for taking the time to chat to Staff at New St Sonic2009
 

Indigo2

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I think there is some misunderstanding here. There is no question that the ticket is valid on the 09:04 service from Birmingham New Street to Oxford; it would also be valid on the 08:33 and 08:04 services. (For example, you could have travelled from Preston to Birmingham the previous evening and broken your journey. There is no requirement to wait for the first valid train from Preston to arrive before leaving Birmingham.)

The issue is that the ticket is not valid to leave Preston (or any station!) until 07:54 or later, i.e. it is not valid on the 07:17 service from Preston to Birmingham. Under the new wording of the special Virgin railcard easement, it does not apply to this jouney, as it is impossible to make the entire journey from Preston to Didcot via Banbury on Virgin services only. So the normal restriction 2S applies, i.e. departing at or after 07:54.

A more suitable ticket for the OP might be an Off-Peak Return from Preston to Hayes and Harlington, route Not Via London. This is valid to stop short at Didcot, costs £52.45 with Y-P railcard discount, and is valid on any train from 04:15 onwards.
 

calc7

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The OP seems to be getting confused about the CrossCountry imposed restriction 2V (valid after 09:30) which usually only applies to Off-Peak Returns priced by them. The code for the ticket in question is 2S, and so CrossCountry cannot stop you travelling on the 0803, 0833, 0904 from Birmingham, even if they'd like to!
 

dave87016

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Hi all thanks for all your previous help, having been searching again I found that I can book a off peak return with a railcard ( same ticket as I mentioned in my opening post) for £56:85 from Lancaster to Didcot departing Lancaster at 06:58am and travelling on to Wolverhampton then get the 08:41am from Wolverhampton to Oxford which the 07:17am from Preston as per my opening post but not valid from Preston but IS valid from Lancaster
 

LexyBoy

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From memory that ticket will not be valid for break of journey on the outbound, so you would actually have to start from Lancaster. On a mobile now so can't check to be sure.
 

calc7

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From memory that ticket will not be valid for break of journey on the outbound, so you would actually have to start from Lancaster. On a mobile now so can't check to be sure.
It's a 2T (valid after 0415), not a 3A like many of the SVRs to London from past the Manchester and Merseyside urban areas.
 

bb21

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Hi all thanks for all your previous help, having been searching again I found that I can book a off peak return with a railcard ( same ticket as I mentioned in my opening post) for £56:85 from Lancaster to Didcot departing Lancaster at 06:58am and travelling on to Wolverhampton then get the 08:41am from Wolverhampton to Oxford which the 07:17am from Preston as per my opening post but not valid from Preston but IS valid from Lancaster
That is correct. Lancaster - Didcot Parkway Route Via Banbury Off-Peak Return has a different restriction to Preston Lancs - Didcot Parkway Route Via Banbury Off-Peak Return. The former takes code 2T, while the latter takes 2S.

It's a 2T (valid after 0415), not a 3A like many of the SVRs to London from past the Manchester and Merseyside urban areas.
Just to decipher for you, the full text of restriction code 3A is here, which contains a restriction on break of journey in the outward portion. This means you cannot start (or end) short on the outward portion of a 3A-restricted ticket.

2T restriction has no such condition which means that you are perfectly fine to start short on the Lancaster ticket at Preston.
 
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