Printed copy of the full British Rail timetable

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Justin Smith

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Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere.
I have been buying the Middleton Press printed UK rail timetable for years now but they`ve stopped doing it now. They just do a Great Britain section of the European timetable instead. This is of some value but not really suitable for when one is off "rail rovering", for instance, if you`re in York and thinking of going to Doncaster and you quickly need to see all the services from there to Sheffield (whilst trying to decide whether to catch that train in Platform 5.....) you haven`t got time to thumb through 2 or 3 skeleton timetables ! Furthermore the the GB extract doesn`t actually cover all the services anyway. Does anyone know if a printed copy of the UK timetable is still available ? I need one because I really don`t want a smart phone (I want to be able to get away from the internet ! ) and in any case, even when journey planning at home (with access to a PC) there are some itineraries that it`s easier to do with the printed timetable in front of you.

Added 19 May 17

The printed National Rail Timetable is now available again, see this post.
 
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berneyarms

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Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere.
I have been buying the Middleton Press printed UK rail timetable for years now but they`ve stopped doing it now. They just do a Great Britain section of the European timetable instead. This is of some value but not really suitable for when one is off "rail rovering", for instance, if you`re in York and thinking of going to Doncaster and you quickly need to see all the services from there to Sheffield (whilst trying to decide whether to catch that train in Platform 5.....) you haven`t got time to thumb through 2 or 3 skeleton timetables ! Furthermore the the GB extract doesn`t actually cover all the services anyway. Does anyone know if a printed copy of the UK timetable is still available ? I need one because I really don`t want a smart phone (I want to be able to get away from the internet ! ) and in any case, even when journey planning at home (with access to a PC) there are some itineraries that it`s easier to do with the printed timetable in front of you.

They've stopped doing it because the information that NR was providing was littered with mistakes and frankly wasn't worth the paper it was printed on.

The NR timetable (which is again far from error free) is here:
http://www.networkrail.co.uk/aspx/3828.aspx

You'll have to print it yourself.

Otherwise download all the TOC pdf files.
 

Justin Smith

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They've stopped doing it because the information that NR was providing was littered with mistakes and frankly wasn't worth the paper it was printed on.

The NR timetable (which is again far from error free) is here:
http://www.networkrail.co.uk/aspx/3828.aspx

You'll have to print it yourself.

Otherwise download all the TOC pdf files.

Thanks for that BA. The problem being that it`d be far too big and weigh far too much to take out with you, apart from the cost per page of printing it !
 

jopsuk

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I'm guessing the main reason why they stopped printing it was that the number of copies sold no longer covered the costs of production- in other words, almost nobody actually wanted the thing any more, beyond a few die hards.
 

Hadders

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Barry Does's section in the last Rail Magazine explained why Middleton Press no longer produce a printed version.

If what Barry says is true then it's a very poor show from NR.
 

rebmcr

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If you really want to get away from the internet, but not carry printouts around, use a no-mobile-data tablet or e-reader with the PDFs loaded on in advance.
 

geoffk

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I don't think any Western European country now produces a national rail timetable (except perhaps Luxembourg!). The French one has been gone for some time and there was one back street office in Paris where you could get it.

West Yorkshire PTE (Metro) is still doing its comprehensive book, Merseyside does a series of leaflets, otherwise it's individual route leaflets now I think, but I expect there are some area booklets I don't know about.
 

berneyarms

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I don't think any Western European country now produces a national rail timetable (except perhaps Luxembourg!). The French one has been gone for some time and there was one back street office in Paris where you could get it.

West Yorkshire PTE (Metro) is still doing its comprehensive book, Merseyside does a series of leaflets, otherwise it's individual route leaflets now I think, but I expect there are some area booklets I don't know about.

GWR and South West Trains produce books which include all of their services, Derbyshire county council produce a book as well.
 

jimm

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If you really want to get away from the internet, but not carry printouts around, use a no-mobile-data tablet or e-reader with the PDFs loaded on in advance.

That assumes that the pdfs are correct, which appears to be quite some assumption given all the problems in recent years with Network Rail making such a pig's ear of the whole process.

And if you want to download from TOC sites, you'll do well to get any from the GWR site just now, as something seems to have gone badly wrong, with efforts to remove the December 2015-May 2016 timetables overnight also taking out all but tables East 1 to 3 of the new set.
 

bolli

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That assumes that the pdfs are correct, which appears to be quite some assumption given all the problems in recent years with Network Rail making such a pig's ear of the whole process.

I noticed in the last one whilst looking for the Gloucester to Severn tunnel junction timetable, it was completely missing from the table it was supposed to be in. So very much far from error free!
 

deep south

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Both printed and pdf's can be wrong; I live near Swanwick on the Southampton to Fareham line and Southern removed Swanwick from their Southampton to London via Gatwick timetables a couple of years ago; when I asked them why they said it was to "make it easier to read"....

But the trains do stop there and show in the journey planners.
 

Justin Smith

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why bother with such a massive brick? Use a smart phone.

In the opener.......

Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere.
I have been buying the Middleton Press printed UK rail timetable for years now but they`ve stopped doing it now. They just do a Great Britain section of the European timetable instead. This is of some value but not really suitable for when one is off "rail rovering", for instance, if you`re in York and thinking of going to Doncaster and you quickly need to see all the services from there to Sheffield (whilst trying to decide whether to catch that train in Platform 5.....) you haven`t got time to thumb through 2 or 3 skeleton timetables ! Furthermore the the GB extract doesn`t actually cover all the services anyway. Does anyone know if a printed copy of the UK timetable is still available ? I need one because I really don`t want a smart phone (I want to be able to get away from the internet ! ) and in any case, even when journey planning at home (with access to a PC) there are some itineraries that it`s easier to do with the printed timetable in front of you.
 

ian959

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Well you either print out the PDF version of the timetables or you have a smartphone/tablet with the thing downloaded or with an appropriate app installed. You are not going to get away from the internet in this day and age. Frankly I found a netbook with the PDF version very easy to use when I am wandering around on a Britrail pass
 

DarloRich

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In the opener.......

I read all that. Not wanting to own a smart phone means you will have to use the paper timetables that exist. Personally I would just join the 20th century rather than relaying on the 19th century technology.

Odd that i have been able to plan week long rail rovers by absolutely no reference to any printed material.
 

berneyarms

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I read all that. Not wanting to own a smart phone means you will have to use the paper timetables that exist. Personally I would just join the 20th century rather than relaying on the 19th century technology.

Odd that i have been able to plan week long rail rovers by absolutely no reference to any printed material.

Different people have different ways of doing things and just because it suits you doesn't mean it suits everyone, particularly older people who do often prefer printed material.

A little bit of understanding of that goes a long way, rather than assuming everyone is like you.
 

DarloRich

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Different people have different ways of doing things and just because it suits you doesn't mean it suits everyone, particularly older people who do often prefer printed material.

A little bit of understanding of that goes a long way, rather than assuming everyone is like you.

It isn't that it doesn't suit me - it clearly suits few if the full books aren't commercially viable.
 

Deepgreen

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I read all that. Not wanting to own a smart phone means you will have to use the paper timetables that exist. Personally I would just join the 20th century rather than relaying on the 19th century technology.

Odd that i have been able to plan week long rail rovers by absolutely no reference to any printed material.

Or go the whole hog and join the 21st century.
 

cuccir

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I'd agree with others that a practical solution may be to buy a tablet - Amazon lists several at under £30 if you want to go cheap (though I don't know about the reliability of these very cheap products) - which will connect via WiFi when you want it to, but still allows you to 'switch off' as it wouldn't have the phone element.
 
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berneyarms

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It isn't that it doesn't suit me - it clearly suits few if the full books aren't commercially viable.

Sorry - you made reference to "any printed material" which is what I was commenting upon, not necessarily the full GBTT.

Many people, particularly older people, will still use printed timetables - for example, TOCs still all produce printed timetables.

I don't see the need for a full printed national book - but I do see the need for some form of printed timetables such as those produced by each TOC.
 
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jimm

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Both printed and pdf's can be wrong; I live near Swanwick on the Southampton to Fareham line and Southern removed Swanwick from their Southampton to London via Gatwick timetables a couple of years ago; when I asked them why they said it was to "make it easier to read"....

But the trains do stop there and show in the journey planners.

Not that online journey planners are infallible either if the wrong information has been uploaded.
 

DarloRich

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Sorry - you made reference to "any printed material" which is what I was commenting upon, not necessarily the full GBTT.

Many people, particularly older people, will still use printed timetables - for example, TOCs still all produce printed timetables.

I don't see the need for a full printed national book - but I do see the need for some form of printed timetables such as those produced by each TOC.

I have the printed timetable for my local line pinned on my notice board in the kitchen and keep a London line one in my work bag as a back up
 

Justin Smith

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I read all that. Not wanting to own a smart phone means you will have to use the paper timetables that exist. Personally I would just join the 20th century rather than relaying on the 19th century technology.

Odd that i have been able to plan week long rail rovers by absolutely no reference to any printed material.

It isn`t odd, it`s perfectly possible. I find it easier, I think most people would say it was easier, to plan complicated itineraries when looking at various printed copies of the full timetable.
As for "joining the 20th century", I think that`s a bit of a personal slight. I do not want a smart phone, I could give all my reasons but that would really be going way off topic so I`m not going to bother. It certainly isn`t a "fear of technology", I own a business selling aerials and stuff mainly via a website written by myself which gets around 1000 visits a day (on average). Suffice it to say that no government department or semi governmental organisation has any right to try and force me to have a smart phone. Private companies operating in competition are different, it`s up to them how they run their businesses.
 
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ainsworth74

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It isn't odd, it's perfectly possible. I find it easier, I think most people would say it was easier, to plan complicated itineraries when looking at various printed copies of the full timetable.

I've planned plenty of complicated itineraries and have never found a paper timetable easier to use. Indeed I would have said it was harder! Though, of course, each to their own ;)
 

Shaw S Hunter

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The death of the printed GBTT has been on the cards almost since it first appeared in 1974 (I think). Almost every edition has contained errors. In BR days it was normal for a supplement to be published listing all the (identified) corrections and this was a hefty pamphlet in itself much of the time. And excuses for the errors were just as lame back then as now. Bottom line, I don't think anyone really cared. When I downloaded last winter's full set of timetable pdfs I discovered that Table 186 (London to Brighton - not exactly a quiet branch line) contained the actual content of table 188 (Coastway routes)!!

Perhaps the way will open up to find a different way of converting the raw data used for internal purposes into something useful for the public without needing to conform to the rigid layout of the current timetable whilst still offering information in a timetable format. Journey planners alone won't ever cut the mustard.
 

sarahj

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A few years ago, Southern advertised an all route/network timetable. I asked a manager about getting one, would have been handy after they went from the route timetable books to the little leaflets. He told me that it did not exist. I showed him a copy of the ad, but no, unable to get one. Barry Doe then noted that it had been discontinued due to lack of demand...:|
 

Marklund

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If you still want a printed timetable, try this guy. It includes British Railways.

Other than that, print it yourself, or buy a non-connected to the internet e-book and download the pdfs.

Or take the pdfs to a printer and get them to bind you a book.
 

Justin Smith

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A few years ago, Southern advertised an all route/network timetable. I asked a manager about getting one, would have been handy after they went from the route timetable books to the little leaflets. He told me that it did not exist. I showed him a copy of the ad, but no, unable to get one. Barry Doe then noted that it had been discontinued due to lack of demand...:|

Funnily enough I`ve just been in the phone to Middleton`s to pay my bill. They said they definitely did not want to stop producing the printed full timetable despite the fact that it gives them loads of headaches due to inaccurate data and unhelpfulness from Network Rail. They did not stop producing it due to lack of demand, they sold thousands. They didn`t discount reintroducing the printed full timetable but said it`d be up to Network Rail to improve their performance, so don`t hold your breath was the implication.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
If you still want a printed timetable, try this guy. It includes British Railways.

Other than that, print it yourself, or buy a non-connected to the internet e-book and download the pdfs.

Or take the pdfs to a printer and get them to bind you a book.

Thanks for that. In actual fact Middleton`s now sell the UK extract of that publication. The only problem being it has skeleton timetables and not all of them either. It only has basic timings of branch lines and none around London and stuff.
On the other hand it`s cheaper, smaller and (a lot) lighter !
 
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Doctor Fegg

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With open timetable data it should be possible to automate creating the PDFs in a less error-strewn way.

I suspect the economics wouldn't work for Middleton, but if NR are resenting the requirement to produce it, maybe they could offer some funding for developers to create a new open-source system to do so...
 
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