PRIV Discount on Child Zip Oystercards

[Surreytraveller]

I am posting this in order that it may help other 'Safeguarded' British Rail Staff who have child dependants with a Zip (11-15) Oystercard.

Children 10 and under get free travel on London Underground, so it doesn't apply to them (but you can still get the PRIV discount added to an under 11 Zip Oystercard in case you want to travel on National Rail services, but this issue doesn't seem to affect 5-10 Zip Oystercards).

My child turned 11 earlier this year, so I obtained the 11-15 Zip Oystercard for him. I got a London Underground station to put the PRIV discount on it.
Unfortunately, after having the discount added, it wouldn't work the ticket barriers, displaying an error code of '01'. The reject code of '01' does not appear on the reject code sheets held by staff, so no one could tell me what the problem was. The strange thing was, he could still use the card at Ticket Machines, and also on buses without any problem.

Having done some research, I found out the code of '01' basically meant that the child discount was incompatible with the PRIV discount which had been loaded onto the Zip Oystercaard, so the ticket barriers simply rejected it. The discount which had been loaded onto the Zip Oystercard was 'Priv All Rail-N', which means it is the National Rail discount to be loaded onto a 'Nominee' Adult Oystercard (or Spouse/Civil Partner in Rail Staff terms). To get a child's Zip Oystercard to work, you need to make sure the staff load the 'Priv All Rail' discount onto it without the 'N' at the end - this is the same discount they would put onto the employee's Adult Oystercard. I don't know why the Oyster system is set up like this, but it is in their manuals. I think it is just something that Underground staff very rarely come across.

So, I sorted that out earlier this year, then went to an Underground station to have the discounts renewed in June once the new Staff Travelcards had come, and somehow the staff had uploaded the 'Nominee' discount onto my son's Zip Oystercard again. I didn't realise this until last week when we tried to use it, so had them sort the problem out again this morning. So, when renewing the Rail Staff Discount on a Zip 11-15 Oystercard, you need to make sure the staff do not put the 'Nominee' discount on it, but the proper 'Staff' discount. The 'Nominee' discount works fine on adult Oystercards, but not child ones.

I hope this post is of use to others.

 

[MikeWh]

Thanks for this, and the copy on my site as well.

One thing to note is that 5-10 Zip cards enable free travel on all rail services except if the journey ventures south of Coulsdon South or is on HS1 between St Pancras and Stratford Int'ls.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Thanks for this, and the copy on my site as well.

One thing to note is that 5-10 Zip cards enable free travel on all rail services except if the journey ventures south of Coulsdon South or is on HS1 between St Pancras and Stratford Int'ls.

Yes, of course it does. I'd forgotten about that - it didn't used to, which is why I'd had the discount added to it a few years ago.

 

[ge-gn]

Great advice, thanks.

 

[Neal Cowdrey]

Thanks for that, most useful info.
we fell into the same situation after renewing the discount over the summer. Is this put right at an underground station by replacing one discount for another, or do Oyster customer services have to be involved?

 

[Surreytraveller]

Thanks for that, most useful info.
we fell into the same situation after renewing the discount over the summer. Is this put right at an underground station by replacing one discount for another, or do Oyster customer services have to be involved?

Don't involve Oyster customer services, they don't have a clue about PRIV discounts.
I simply went to a station, explained the wrong discount had been applied to the card, and told them the normal staff PRIV all-rail needs to be added and the Nominee one doesn't work. Take them to a barrier to prove it doesn't work, then take them back to prove it does work once they've fixed it. It can be a struggle to find a member of staff who understands the problem, though. I did consider getting them to remove the discount, as child Oyster fares aren't that expensive and it just isn't worth the hassle.

 

[Neal Cowdrey]

Don't involve Oyster customer services, they don't have a clue about PRIV discounts.
I simply went to a station, explained the wrong discount had been applied to the card, and told them the normal staff PRIV all-rail needs to be added and the Nominee one doesn't work. Take them to a barrier to prove it doesn't work, then take them back to prove it does work once they've fixed it. It can be a struggle to find a member of staff who understands the problem, though. I did consider getting them to remove the discount, as child Oyster fares aren't that expensive and it just isn't worth the hassle.

Thanks again, I've printed off your post of what's required and see how it goes next time we're in London.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Try this link:
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/312217/response/771255/attach/4/discounts photocards section January 2016 Redacted.pdf
page 57:
"Privilege Ticket Authority Cards (PTACs) are issued to some staff, their partners and dependent children. A Privilege Ticket Authority Card (PTAC) allows holders to travel at priv rate, which is a 75%
discount on equivalent adult or child-rate fares on rail services.
PTAC variants
There are three different priv rate discounts:
Priv All Rail:
• For TfL staff who joined before 1 April 1996 and their dependent children. PTACs are issued for standard and first class travel on
National Rail services according to entitlement.
Priv All Rail (N):
• For spouses or partners of TfL staff who joined before 1 April
1996. PTACs are issued for standard and first class travel on
National Rail services according to entitlement.
TfL rail:
• For dependent children of staff who joined TfL after 1 April 1996."
On a child's Zip Card, it needs to be the Priv All Rail, not Priv All Rail (N)

 

[Mojo]

To get a child's Zip Oystercard to work, you need to make sure the staff load the 'Priv All Rail' discount onto it without the 'N' at the end - this is the same discount they would put onto the employee's Adult Oystercard. I don't know why the Oyster system is set up like this, but it is in their manuals. I think it is just something that Underground staff very rarely come across.

The reason for the difference is that, Priv All Rail is for the staff or dependent child as it allows a discount on Pay As You Go and season tickets (with the appropriate authority form staff can have a discount on a journey to work and a child[1] can have a discount on their journey to educational establishment) whereas the spouse can only ever have Pay As You Go.

[1] Child in this context is not just under 16s

 

[Wallsendmag]

Try this link:
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/312217/response/771255/attach/4/discounts photocards section January 2016 Redacted.pdf
page 57:
"Privilege Ticket Authority Cards (PTACs) are issued to some staff, their partners and dependent children. A Privilege Ticket Authority Card (PTAC) allows holders to travel at priv rate, which is a 75%
discount on equivalent adult or child-rate fares on rail services.
PTAC variants
There are three different priv rate discounts:
Priv All Rail:
• For TfL staff who joined before 1 April 1996 and their dependent children. PTACs are issued for standard and first class travel on
National Rail services according to entitlement.
Priv All Rail (N):
• For spouses or partners of TfL staff who joined before 1 April
1996. PTACs are issued for standard and first class travel on
National Rail services according to entitlement.
TfL rail:
• For dependent children of staff who joined TfL after 1 April 1996."
On a child's Zip Card, it needs to be the Priv All Rail, not Priv All Rail (N)

That’s for TfL staff not ex BR staff

 

[Surreytraveller]

That’s for TfL staff not ex BR staff

Its for both. Its just explains how to set the discount on the Oystercard. Which is why it refers to both PTAC and PRIV. The former being the LT term, the latter being the BR term.
Both BR and LT staff from pre-1996 are both entitled to the same discounts on each other's railways.
There are other documents available which state what entitles someone to actually have the PRIV/PTAC discount applied to their Oystercard.

 

[Surreytraveller]

The reason for the difference is that, Priv All Rail is for the staff or dependent child as it allows a discount on Pay As You Go and season tickets (with the appropriate authority form staff can have a discount on a journey to work and a child[1] can have a discount on their journey to educational establishment) whereas the spouse can only ever have Pay As You Go.

[1] Child in this context is not just under 16s

That makes perfect sense. It explains why the difference exists, and is obvious now you mention it.

 

[sharpley]

it wouldn't work the ticket barriers, displaying an error code of '01'. The reject code of '01' does not appear on the reject code sheets held by staff, so no one could tell me what the problem was.

Reject code 01 = Invalid Table Data. Some of the more obscure codes won't appear on the staff POD code list, but sounds like you didn't need it in the end anyway.