Priv fares

[gray1404]

And if he really wants to make the most of PRIV then getting an off peak or super off peak on a journey thats Route: [TOC] whoever only will mean travelling for hardly any money at all e.g. Liverpool to London Super Off Peak Return: £7.75 with priv - which is better value then getting the cheapest advance fares on that route.

 

[craigybagel]

Hi, yes I did! Awaiting medical and a start date but have been led to believe this will be fairly soon! Apologies in advance for any time in the next few years you call control and I sound like a nonce!

Thanks for the info too, good to know. I agree that it seems to be a very good company travel scheme, I guess Priv isn't going to be used much, as I can get almost anywhere I'd want to go with XC!

I'm sure you'll be fine - us traincrew do have something of a love hate relationship with control, but we do have a pretty good bunch in Cardiff to be fair! As for PRIV, always bring it with you, you never know when it'll come in handy. I've used mine in Scotland and the Isle of Wight! The big advantage I've found with it though is for holidays further abroad; instead of being tied to my nearest airports, I've saved a fortune by flying from wherever in Britain is cheapest and using my PRIV to get there. For example, I flew out of Leeds last week - for a ~£4 PRIV single, I saved £60 in air fare over my closest airport.
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Really?
Then why can't I get one?

Because the whole set up sucks big time!

Its one of the greatest injustices out there alright - signallers and track workers put up with the same crap and worse that we get but without the perks. Fwiw my machine will develop a mysterious fault anytime one of you guys needs a lift somewhere

 

[Llanigraham]

Because the whole set up sucks big time!

Quite!!
I've looked at the FP site and can see nowhere where I can apply for one.
Looks like Minilad is wrong
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Its one of the greatest injustices out there alright - signallers and track workers put up with the same crap and worse that we get but without the perks. Fwiw my machine will develop a mysterious fault anytime one of you guys needs a lift somewhere

Damn!! Knew I should have booked my tickets to London next month via Newport and not Brum!

I know "we" have been warned about accepting free travel and of course I would never accept such a thing.......................However I will admit to see how much it might cost me to up-grade to First. Funny how when my wallet opens I have an ID card visible

We were in Switzerland a couple of years ago and got 50% discount on the Rigi Railway with my ID, and they don't advertise any FIP discount or anything.

 

[Minilad]

Really?
Then why can't I get one?

Sorry. Should have said TOC employees!!
And yes, I agree, it's a crap system and should be rectified ASAP

 

[LowLevel]

Surely SWT staff get reciprocal travel on EMT and not just boxes?!

They do, it's unlimited on production of their smart card.

 

[Frontera2]

I've never used my priv card as I've always asked the guard before I board if I'm ok to "get a lift" and having showed him/her my passes-I never paid yet.

Then you're being a bit daft, sorry. At some point you will probably get caught out which puts not only you but the Conductor on the train at risk of disciplinary action / loss of travel.

This is a real bugbear of mine, those of us fortunate to work in the industry have a great travel perk yet some people like to push the boundaries too far...
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When you say PRIV are you referring to your company staff discount card or PRIV CARD as in what safe guarded rail staff get because they worked for British Rail pre privatisation, because if it's the latter your not entitled to one being a new entrant to the railway. International coupons and the FIP CARDS are also restricted to ex British Rail safe guarded staff.

Wow, what a lot of misinformation in a single post!

All non-safeguarded TOC staff get what's known as a TOC New Entrant (TOCNE) card which, like the card safeguarded staff have, offers 75% off.

In terms of international facilities, there is absolutely no difference whether you are safeguarded or not. You get exactly the same benefits whether you have 1 year or 25 years service.

if you're going to post about staff travel, at least have your facts right!

 

[CyrusWuff]

Being pedantic, TOC New Entrants (those who started work on the railway on or after 1st April 1996) get a "TOC Privilege Travel Card" and Safeguarded Staff get a "Staff Travel Card".

 

[Llanigraham]

if you're going to post about staff travel, at least have your facts right!

Especially in relation to Network Rail staff!! :roll:

 

[Mag_seven]

Its one of the greatest injustices out there alright - signallers and track workers put up with the same crap and worse that we get but without the perks.

Why didn't the RMT fight it at the time? (or did it fight it and lost?)

 

[6Gman]

Then you're being a bit daft, sorry. At some point you will probably get caught out which puts not only you but the Conductor on the train at risk of disciplinary action / loss of travel.
This is a real bugbear of mine, those of us fortunate to work in the industry have a great travel perk yet some people like to push the boundaries too far...

This is why I'm uncomfortable when Conductors decline to sell me a ticket. When I get to t'other end and somebody asks for my ticket?

 

[greatkingrat]

Why didn't the RMT fight it at the time? (or did it fight it and lost?)

Possibly as all the existing staff at time of privatisation kept their travel benefits, they weren't too bothered about the staff joining in the future?

 

[Starmill]

Because the whole set up sucks big time!

But I thought the railway's approach to fares was perfect!?

 

[Urban Gateline]

Then you're being a bit daft, sorry. At some point you will probably get caught out which puts not only you but the Conductor on the train at risk of disciplinary action / loss of travel.

This is a real bugbear of mine, those of us fortunate to work in the industry have a great travel perk yet some people like to push the boundaries too far...

Easy to say for you with your First Class Status pass eh...:roll:

 

[Llanigraham]

But I thought the railway's approach to fares was perfect!?

Err, his comment was nothing to do with the fares structure but about the fact that a lot of Network Rail employees get NO travel concessions unlike TOC employees.

 

[miami]

I don't charge staff who travel with me - but would expect assistance should I need it and do the same in return.

I've never used my priv card as I've always asked the guard before I board if I'm ok to "get a lift" and having showed him/her my passes-I never paid yet.

Most guards I know would never charge a fellow railway person as they believe it should be free travel for all of us

And I won't prioritise charging a member of staff doing my job 200 miles away the princely sum of 75p when there is a fare-dodging idiot three carriages away who has owed me £10 the last two days, though that's not the main reason, just one which you might use for rational argument.

I don't understand this attitude, not really a good example to set is it? Fare dodging is ok for 75p but not ok for £10? Fare dodging is ok with a nudge and a wink? Is fare dodging ok for friends of rail staff? How about I slip the conductor £20 and "get a lift"?

Surely rail staff should be the ones setting an example.

 

[Llanigraham]

Surely rail staff should be the ones setting an example.

You don't get it, do you?
Do you agree with equality?
If yes, why are some, mostly new NR employees, discriminated against, in respect of Privilege rate travel?

I get the impression you don't work on the railway!

 

[bb21]

You don't get it, do you?
Do you agree with equality?
If yes, why are some, mostly new NR employees, discriminated against, in respect of Privilege rate travel?

I get the impression you don't work on the railway!

I don't think different terms and perks applying to different jobs is discrimination.

You wouldn't say that all other NR TOC staff are discriminated against because LOROL staff get free LU travel, or that LM staff are discriminated against because EMT staff get reciprocal travel on SWT but LM staff don't.

It sucks to be Network Rail employee in that respect, I understand, but that is simply down to the fact that your employer shafted you big time rather than discrimination.

 

[Andrew1395]

I don't think different terms and perks applying to different jobs is discrimination.

You wouldn't say that all other NR TOC staff are discriminated against because LOROL staff get free LU travel, or that LM staff are discriminated against because EMT staff get reciprocal travel on SWT but LM staff don't.

It sucks to be Network Rail employee in that respect, I understand, but that is simply down to the fact that your employer shafted you big time rather than discrimination.

If the. RMT and TSSA had made a fight for national staff travel benefits when. Railtrack went bust they would have got them. It would be a simple argument to the. DfT that travel benefits saves the industry money. Suppresses wages, creates greater staff flexibility and improves productivity by increasing staff moving between NR, train and freight operators. The government bought travel facilities for. London police and would have seen that travel actually costs the industry nothing

 

[beeza1]

I've never used my priv card as I've always asked the guard before I board if I'm ok to "get a lift" and having showed him/her my passes-I never paid yet.

You sir, or madam are an example of the very worst type of fare dodger, what you, and the conductor for that matter are indulging in is theft, for the conductor it's theft from his/her employer and in any other industry this would result in instant dismissal, and more than likely a criminal prosecution, why should the railways be any different?

 

[notadriver]

You sir, or madam are an example of the very worst type of fare dodger, what you, and the conductor for that matter are indulging in is theft, for the conductor it's theft from his/her employer and in any other industry this would result in instant dismissal, and more than likely a criminal prosecution, why should the railways be any different?

The solution is to allow any rail staff to travel free on production of their ID then there would be no theft or whatever you want to call it.

 

[Hadders]

The solution is to allow any rail staff to travel free on production of their ID then there would be no theft or whatever you want to call it.

Or buy a ticket under the generous staff discount scheme...

 

[razor89]

You sir, or madam are an example of the very worst type of fare dodger, what you, and the conductor for that matter are indulging in is theft, for the conductor it's theft from his/her employer and in any other industry this would result in instant dismissal, and more than likely a criminal prosecution, why should the railways be any different?

Do you work on the railway? If so, you might be surprised just how many of your colleagues you are accusing of being the "worst type of fare dodger"! If not, why so emotional about it?

Or buy a ticket under the generous staff discount scheme...

Or we could accept that this practice is clearly quite widespread. We could avoid branding those that do it as fare dodgers or criminals, and work with the TOC's to change peoples mindsets so that it is no longer seen as acceptable. I am sure senior management at all TOC's are aware this happens and yet there is very little done about it to actually tell staff that this is not acceptable.

 

[miami]

The solution is to allow any rail staff to travel free on production of their ID then there would be no theft or whatever you want to call it.

The solution is to remove said discount from rail staff, who clearly don't appreciate it.

Why should I spend £100 on a return to Cornwall, paying the wages for fare dodgers who decide that they don't need to pay?

If someone in the council decides not to pay council tax, or someone in the bbc doesn't bother with the license, or someone working for powergen ignores their electricity bill, what happens?

Or is it simply the railways, who get massive subsidies from the uk public, are special?

I think it's time to petition to remove these enormous 75% discounts, let alone the culture of fare evasion. Austerity is hitting us all, why does one industry get a pass? When you cope without a subsidy you can have it back.

 

[455driver]

The

The solution is to remove said discount from rail staff, who clearly don't appreciate it.

Why should I spend £100 on a return to Cornwall, paying the wages for fare dodgers who decide that they don't need to pay?

If someone in the council decides not to pay council tax, or someone in the bbc doesn't bother with the license, or someone working for powergen ignores their electricity bill, what happens?

Or is it simply the railways, who get massive subsidies from the uk public, are special?

I think it's time to petition to remove these enormous 75% discounts, let alone the culture of fare evasion. Austerity is hitting us all, why does one industry get a pass? When you cope without a subsidy you can have it back.

Usually blah blah rubbish I see! :roll:

Let's remove all perks from every other job as well, cheap mortgages for bank employees, cheap/free groceries for supermarket employees etc! :roll:

 

[craigybagel]

I can't speak for DOO trains, but on trains with guards as far as the rule book is concerned the decision as to who can and can't travel on a train and whether they need a ticket is solely at the discretion of the guard. It's not really any one else's business.

 

[miami]

The
Usually blah blah rubbish I see! :roll:

Let's remove all perks from every other job as well, cheap mortgages for bank employees, cheap/free groceries for supermarket employees etc! :roll:

If I was an employer giving a generous perk, perhaps Tesco giving 75% off their grocery bill, and found a culture of staff simply stealing the food instead, and helping each other to do it, I'd be looking at

1) Firing the thieves
2) Removing that perk

Do railway staff taking advantage of the massive discounts have to pay tax on the savings, like bank staff with cheaper mortgages?

 

[notadriver]

The solution is to remove said discount from rail staff, who clearly don't appreciate it.

Why should I spend £100 on a return to Cornwall, paying the wages for fare dodgers who decide that they don't need to pay?

If someone in the council decides not to pay council tax, or someone in the bbc doesn't bother with the license, or someone working for powergen ignores their electricity bill, what happens?

Or is it simply the railways, who get massive subsidies from the uk public, are special?

I think it's time to petition to remove these enormous 75% discounts, let alone the culture of fare evasion. Austerity is hitting us all, why does one industry get a pass? When you cope without a subsidy you can have it back.

What about safeguarded and retired staff? Should they have their travel facilities removed too ? What about the current free bus travel passes for over 60s? Scrap that ?

 

[razor89]

The solution is to remove said discount from rail staff, who clearly don't appreciate it.

Why should I spend £100 on a return to Cornwall, paying the wages for fare dodgers who decide that they don't need to pay?

If someone in the council decides not to pay council tax, or someone in the bbc doesn't bother with the license, or someone working for powergen ignores their electricity bill, what happens?

Or is it simply the railways, who get massive subsidies from the uk public, are special?

I think it's time to petition to remove these enormous 75% discounts, let alone the culture of fare evasion. Austerity is hitting us all, why does one industry get a pass? When you cope without a subsidy you can have it back.

Impressive post. You could have had "Selfish rail staff", "terrible attitude", "they just hate those pesky customers don't they?" but I'm glad you managed to get "I pay their wages in there"!

Seriously though, the price you pay for your trip to Cornwall is not relevant at all. What we're talking about here is a long held unofficial practice that ATOC/ the TOC's have shown very little enthusiasm for stamping out. Accusations of fare dodging are inappropriate here I think.

Also wide of the mark are comparisons with the BBC and councils. As far as I am aware these organisations have always attempted to crack down on non-payment.

 

[miami]

Impressive post. You could have had "Selfish rail staff", "terrible attitude", "they just hate those pesky customers don't they?" but I'm glad you managed to get "I pay their wages in there"!

Seriously though, the price you pay for your trip to Cornwall is not relevant at all. What we're talking about here is a long held unofficial practice that ATOC/ the TOC's have shown very little enthusiasm for stamping out. Accusations of fare dodging are inappropriate here I think.

Legally the fare is due. People are (apparently en-mass) evading that fare. It would be easy for the TOCs to declare that they give free travel to rail staff, remove the PRIV cards.

Also wide of the mark are comparisons with the BBC and councils. As far as I am aware these organisations have always attempted to crack down on non-payment.

The police don't bother cracking down on drivers doing 80mph, it's still illegal. Change the rules, don't just ignore it because it doesn't suit you.
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What about safeguarded and retired staff? Should they have their travel facilities removed too ? What about the current free bus travel passes for over 60s? Scrap that ?

Depends if the cards are official terms of their pensions, removing them might prove legally problematic.

However from a moral point of view are these people up in arms about their former colleagues evading paying fares en-mass? If not, then they are culpable.

To be clear I have no problem with whatever perks the companies provide, as long as they are kept to. If there's small scale abuse, that's one thing, and stamping it out with court actions that we see in the disputes forum is fine. If there's institutional abuse then the entire perk should be revisited.
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Or we could accept that this practice is clearly quite widespread. We could avoid branding those that do it as fare dodgers or criminals, and work with the TOC's to change peoples mindsets so that it is no longer seen as acceptable. I am sure senior management at all TOC's are aware this happens and yet there is very little done about it to actually tell staff that this is not acceptable.

“I've never paid before so I don't see why I should pay now.”

That sort of excuse?

Or is it more

"The guy at the station said you don't need tickets for these trains."

 

[razor89]

Legally the fare is due. People are (apparently en-mass) evading that fare. It would be easy for the TOCs to declare that they give free travel to rail staff, remove the PRIV cards.



The police don't bother cracking down on drivers doing 80mph, it's still illegal. Change the rules, don't just ignore it because it doesn't suit you.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Depends if the cards are official terms of their pensions, removing them might prove legally problematic.

However from a moral point of view are these people up in arms about their former colleagues evading paying fares en-mass? If not, then they are culpable.

To be clear I have no problem with whatever perks the companies provide, as long as they are kept to. If there's small scale abuse, that's one thing, and stamping it out with court actions that we see in the disputes forum is fine. If there's institutional abuse then the entire perk should be revisited.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


“I've never paid before so I don't see why I should pay now.”

That sort of excuse?

Or is it more

"The guy at the station said you don't need tickets for these trains."

If a TOC decided to pull an employee up for not paying, there would (I hope) be no excuses. And yet they don't pull employees up, do they? I know a fair few staff that don't always pay, and yet I have literally never heard of anyone being disciplined because of it. There's fare evasion, and there's this. They are simply not the same.