Priv Oyster

calopez

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I am safeguarded staff but as I am now over 60 I no longer have a priv rate Oyster card but use a 60+ Oyster instead :)

My wife, though, is under 60 and so at the end of June, as per usual, I took her Oyster card to the local tube station to have its priv discount updated with her new staff travel card.

The gent at the station wasn't entirely sure what to do, but with a bit of assistance from me, managed to load the discount. However, there were several possible discounts to choose from. The one selected was 'All Rail - N', but I noticed that the previous discount on my wife's card had been just 'All Rail'.

The few tube journeys she's made since then all seem to have been charged at the correct priv rate, but I'm wondering whether the right discount has actually been set on her card.

So does anyone know what difference there is (if any) between 'All Rail - N' and 'All Rail'?
 
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RJ

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I am safeguarded staff but as I am now over 60 I no longer have a priv rate Oyster card but use a 60+ Oyster instead :)

My wife, though, is under 60 and so at the end of June, as per usual, I took her Oyster card to the local tube station to have its priv discount updated with her new staff travel card.

The gent at the station wasn't entirely sure what to do, but with a bit of assistance from me, managed to load the discount. However, there were several possible discounts to choose from. The one selected was 'All Rail - N', but I noticed that the previous discount on my wife's card had been just 'All Rail'.

The few tube journeys she's made since then all seem to have been charged at the correct priv rate, but I'm wondering whether the right discount has actually been set on her card.

So does anyone know what difference there is (if any) between 'All Rail - N' and 'All Rail'?
I think one grants Priv rate season tickets and the other doesn't.
 

calopez

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Thanks for the answers. Sounds like there's nothing to worry about; she wouldn't qualify for a priv season, not that she needs one anyway.

No doubt someone at TfL knows exactly what the difference is - but I don't much fancy my chances of finding that one person!

Still, I'll keep an eye on what she gets charged, just in case :)
 

RJ

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Thanks for the answers. Sounds like there's nothing to worry about; she wouldn't qualify for a priv season, not that she needs one anyway.

No doubt someone at TfL knows exactly what the difference is - but I don't much fancy my chances of finding that one person!

Still, I'll keep an eye on what she gets charged, just in case :)
The N stands for Nominee. It grants less privileges than the All Rail discount which is for safeguarded staff.
 
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calopez

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The N stands for Nominee. It grants less privileges than the All Rail discount which is for safeguarded staff.
Ah - do you know in what respect the privileges are 'less'? Is it worth getting the discount on my wife's card corrected?
 

RJ

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Ah - do you know in what respect the privileges are 'less'? Is it worth getting the discount on my wife's card corrected?
There are four Priv discounts available on Oyster - by the sounds of it, your wife has the correct one.

Priv All Rail is only for safeguarded staff - it gives discounts on PAYG and season tickets.

Priv All Rail-N is only for nominees - which on the railways is limited to a spouse or partner. It applies Priv rate on PAYG only and is only to be used for leisure journeys.

Priv TfL Rail is for TOC NE employees with a yellow PTAC and child dependants and applies Priv rate on TfL Rail modes - LU/DLR, LO and as one might guess, TfL Rail.

Priv NR only is for all TOC New Entrant Priv holders and entitles the holder to Priv rate on National Rail routes.
 

calopez

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Brilliant - thanks so much for the detailed explanation. It's really helpful to understand the differences between the various discounts. And, quite clearly, my wife does indeed have the right one :D

Thanks again!
 

Mag_seven

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Priv All Rail is only for safeguarded staff - it gives discounts on PAYG and season tickets.
I went to update my priv oyster card yesterday with my new Staff Travel Card (valid 01.04.19 to 30.06.20) and was told that it could not be renewed until my current Staff Travel Card expires on 30th June - is this correct?

I'm sure that last year I updated it before the old card expired.
 

quarella

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If I recall correctly the renewal needs to be done by the expiry date of the stafftravel card. I had mine done back in April.
From the Rail Delivery Group site
[QUOTEThe discount expiry date will match that on your Staff Travel Card. When you get a new Staff Travel Card you will need to update the Privilege discount on your Oyster card. Just take your new Staff Travel Card to a London Underground station and ask staff to update the ‘Priv All Rail’ discount.][/QUOTE]
https://www.raildeliverygroup.com/rst/travel-on-tfl.html
 

Mag_seven

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If I recall correctly the renewal needs to be done by the expiry date of the stafftravel card. I had mine done back in April.
From the Rail Delivery Group site
The discount expiry date will match that on your Staff Travel Card. When you get a new Staff Travel Card you will need to update the Privilege discount on your Oyster card. Just take your new Staff Travel Card to a London Underground station and ask staff to update the ‘Priv All Rail’ discount.]
https://www.raildeliverygroup.com/rst/travel-on-tfl.html
Yes that is exactly what I tried to do although to be fair the LU staff member said they had not updated one before. Looks like I'm going to have to try another station.
 

Surreytraveller

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I went to update my priv oyster card yesterday with my new Staff Travel Card (valid 01.04.19 to 30.06.20) and was told that it could not be renewed until my current Staff Travel Card expires on 30th June - is this correct?

I'm sure that last year I updated it before the old card expired.
The staff are wrong. You need to do it before it expires, not after. I might be wrong, but I believe if you wait until after its expired, you'll have to present a completed application form again.
And just to advise anyone getting the Priv discount loaded onto a child's Zip card - make sure the staff load the All Rail discount (without the N) - if the Nominee version is loaded, it won't work
 

Mag_seven

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The staff are wrong. You need to do it before it expires, not after. I might be wrong, but I believe if you wait until after its expired, you'll have to present a completed application form again.
I'm going to try some other stations over the next few days. I wonder if staff at LUL stations within NR stations e.g. Paddington will be more likely to know how to do it?
 

Surreytraveller

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I'm going to try some other stations over the next few days. I wonder if staff at LUL stations within NR stations e.g. Paddington will be more likely to know how to do it?
As long as the correct discount is already loaded, it is a simple case of just altering the expiry date.
 

RJ

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I went to update my priv oyster card yesterday with my new Staff Travel Card (valid 01.04.19 to 30.06.20) and was told that it could not be renewed until my current Staff Travel Card expires on 30th June - is this correct?

I'm sure that last year I updated it before the old card expired.
No, not correct. I think there were some issues way in the past with Oyster discounts only being settable for a year - but this was changed when 3 year railcards came to fruition. The Priv discount can be set for at least 15 months. If they weren't sure, they could have removed the discount you currently have and put a new one in from the date of the interaction.
 

Deroro

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I am retired staff and live in Ireland. I normally visit London once a year. I fly into Stansted Airport, take the Stansted Express to Tottenham Hale and then travel on the Victoria line underground to Euston.

Since the closure of the staffed ticket office, the station supervisor at Tottenham Hale used to put the privilege rate for London Underground on my Oyster card. I did this journey last week and, as the privilege rate had expired on 30 June, approached the supervisor to add it to the card. She informed me that she was no longer able to do this, as the privilege rate can now be put on Oyster cards only at a certain number of stations. The supervisor had received a list of these stations, but could not lay her hands on it at the time. Presumably these are the larger underground stations.
The helpful supervisor allowed me to travel to Euston. There, I was able to get the privilege rate put on the Oyster card and pay the appropriate fare for the journey from Tottenham Hale. A less helpful person at Tottenham Hale might have made me pay the standard fare to Euston. In the greater scheme of things, and as London is an expensive city to visit, having to pay £2:80 as against 70p is neither here nor there. But getting basic things done seems to be becoming ever more complicated.
 

Surreytraveller

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I am retired staff and live in Ireland. I normally visit London once a year. I fly into Stansted Airport, take the Stansted Express to Tottenham Hale and then travel on the Victoria line underground to Euston.

Since the closure of the staffed ticket office, the station supervisor at Tottenham Hale used to put the privilege rate for London Underground on my Oyster card. I did this journey last week and, as the privilege rate had expired on 30 June, approached the supervisor to add it to the card. She informed me that she was no longer able to do this, as the privilege rate can now be put on Oyster cards only at a certain number of stations. The supervisor had received a list of these stations, but could not lay her hands on it at the time. Presumably these are the larger underground stations.
The helpful supervisor allowed me to travel to Euston. There, I was able to get the privilege rate put on the Oyster card and pay the appropriate fare for the journey from Tottenham Hale. A less helpful person at Tottenham Hale might have made me pay the standard fare to Euston. In the greater scheme of things, and as London is an expensive city to visit, having to pay £2:80 as against 70p is neither here nor there. But getting basic things done seems to be becoming ever more complicated.
That's the first I've heard of that. Unless I always happen to attend a station where they can do it? If its an Oyster with the discount already applied, all they have to do is change the date
 

Deroro

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Unusually, this was my second visit to London this year. I was also at Tottenham Hale station in January. Because of ongoing refurbishment, the station was a building site. The supervisor told me in January that the privilege rate could be put on an Oyster card at any other station on the underground network, except Tottenham Hale. Because of the building work, there was not the necessary machine in situ. If the machine had been there, she could have done it.

Last week the supervisor was specific. A priv rate will never be able to be added at Tottenham Hale in future. Instructions had been received to this effect, together with a list of stations where it can be done.

It is not a major issue for me as the convenience of accessing the Victoria line, rather than going all the way to Liverpool Street on the Stansted Express, outweighs the possibility of having to pay a one off, standard rate fare.
 

Termy

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If a station has an oyster machine (which last I checked, every station does), staff have access to the tools they need to set flags on cards. It might be more about training that staff don't have? I've not heard of any restrictions on setting flags, but I'm also not front-line, so... Take my words with a large dose of salt.
 

Mag_seven

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I'm going to try some other stations over the next few days. I wonder if staff at LUL stations within NR stations e.g. Paddington will be more likely to know how to do it?
I got it done at White City in the end.

If a station has an oyster machine (which last I checked, every station does), staff have access to the tools they need to set flags on cards.
The process was something like:

1. Member of staff puts their code number into a ticket machine
2. My Oyster card touched on the reader on the machine
3. Option to "apply discount" selected
4. "PRIV ALL RAIL" selected
5. New expiry date and photo card number entered
6. Oyster card touched on the reader again and process completed.

So it looks like it can be done an any staffed LUL station as per RSTL guidance.

She informed me that she was no longer able to do this, as the privilege rate can now be put on Oyster cards only at a certain number of stations.
Last week the supervisor was specific. A priv rate will never be able to be added at Tottenham Hale in future. Instructions had been received to this effect, together with a list of stations where it can be done.
If that is the case I would expect to see something on the RSTL website advising that.
 

CyrusWuff

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A recent FOI request produced a redacted copy of Ticketing and Revenue Update 117 (April/May 2019). One of the entries in said update states that Priv discounts should only be set on the former Ticket Office Machines and not via the staff screens on a POM (Passenger Operated Machine).

Could it be the case that Tottenham Hale have had their TOM removed, or no member of staff around with the necessary credentials to access it? (I believe the LU machines require staff to insert their ID card to login, rather than just using a username and password).
 

Deroro

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A recent FOI request produced a redacted copy of Ticketing and Revenue Update 117 (April/May 2019). One of the entries in said update states that Priv discounts should only be set on the former Ticket Office Machines and not via the staff screens on a POM (Passenger Operated Machine).

Could it be the case that Tottenham Hale have had their TOM removed, or no member of staff around with the necessary credentials to access it? (I believe the LU machines require staff to insert their ID card to login, rather than just using a username and password).
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. The public ticket machines at Tottenham Hale were all located outside, at the entrance to the station. There was a notice which read “Please use the ticket machines before entering the station.” There appeared to be no machine of any kind inside the station. Building work is still ongoing at the station, so I will find out the next time I am there, sometime next year, whether a TOM has been installed.

Many thanks to everyone for your helpful replies.
 

Mag_seven

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I got it done at White City in the end.



The process was something like:

1. Member of staff puts their code number into a ticket machine
2. My Oyster card touched on the reader on the machine
3. Option to "apply discount" selected
4. "PRIV ALL RAIL" selected
5. New expiry date and photo card number entered
6. Oyster card touched on the reader again and process completed.

So it looks like it can be done an any staffed LUL station as per RSTL guidance.





If that is the case I would expect to see something on the RSTL website advising that.
Due to COVID, the procedure for getting the PRIV Oyster card updated is slightly different this year if you are updating the card after 30/06 (which clearly is now)

The follwing text is from an e-mail I received from RSTL:

Priv discount on Oyster Cards
TfL have agreed that after 30 June if you have your 2019/20 Staff Travel Card and your 2020/21 Staff Travel Card and the same registered Oyster Card as last year, they can reset the Priv discount on your Oyster Card.



Social distancing is in place at stations so this process will take a little longer than usual.

TfL staff at the London Underground stations have been sent instructions on how to do this using the London Underground ticket machines. If they have difficulties setting the discount, or are unsure what to do, please ask them to check TfL Hot Issues Bulletin 20-20
Has anyone attempted this since the start of this month? I need to get mine updated soon and would be interested to know if anyone has had any joy.

(feel free to start a conversation with me if you don't want to go into detail publicly)
 
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Ralph Ayres

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Due to COVID, the procedure for getting the PRIV Oyster card updated is slightly different this year if you are updating the card after 30/06 (which clearly is now)

The follwing text is from an e-mail I received from RSTL:



Has anyone attempted this since the start of this month? I need to get mine updated soon and would be interested to know if anyone has had any joy.

(feel free to start a conversation with me if you don't want to go into detail publicly)
The main sticking point may well be that we've just gained a fancy new Intranet on which they may struggle to find Hot Issues Bulletin 20-20 !
 

Mojo

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Has anyone attempted this since the start of this month? I need to get mine updated soon and would be interested to know if anyone has had any joy.
Must admit I don’t really see what the difference between this new procedure and the existing one is, other than the fact that staff and the customer are expected to stand apart, and that you have to present your 19/20 Staff Travel Card (not quite sure why?)

This letter is a bit confusing because Hot Issues is an LU document and not a TfL document, and only LU staff can make the changes and not TfL staff, but in any case staff would know what is being talked about.
 

W230

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I've been having a nightmare with mine. I've been 9 times now and keep getting fobbed off by staff. I know what they need to do but they don't seem to, with most saying it's not eligible even though it is.

I normally get it done at Blackhorse Road tube station (have done the last 3 years). This year they refused as too busy, then said it had to be done on the phone, then said they didn't know how to, then they said I had to go to a mainline station before finally I was told I wasn't eligible. I tried to explain it would only be for overground services/metro services with others tocs but they were having none of it. Euston LUL station said I wasn't eligible after showing me a briefing from RSTL, saying it had been done incorrectly for the last 3 years (it hasn't been) and also and sent me upstairs to the mainline station. The mainline station (obviously) said they couldn't do it as it was oyster.

It's so frustrating. Can anyone offer any pointers please? I'm wondering if south of the river may be easier but i'm rarely over that side - particularly at the moment
 

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