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Priv Oyster

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Mag_seven

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Ah, that makes sense. I read the Hot Issues bulletin and it's basically as per the RDG brief, along with the step by step procedure for doing it while maintaining social distancing.

So is the actual procedure they invoke when they log into the ticket machine the same or different? Could you PM me a copy of the Hot Issues bulletin as I would like to take a copy along with me to show the staff if they don't know what to do?
 
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Mojo

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So is the actual procedure they invoke when they log into the ticket machine the same or different? Could you PM me a copy of the Hot Issues bulletin as I would like to take a copy along with me to show the staff if they don't know what to do?
I must admit as I said above I can’t see what is different about the “new” procedure compared to the “old” one, aside from social distancing and having the customer handle their own Oyster rather than staff member.
 

greyman42

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I must admit as I said above I can’t see what is different about the “new” procedure compared to the “old” one, aside from social distancing and having the customer handle their own Oyster rather than staff member.
When i had my Oyster updated there did not appear to be any difference in the procedure and the member of staff handled all my cards.
 

Mag_seven

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I must admit as I said above I can’t see what is different about the “new” procedure compared to the “old” one, aside from social distancing and having the customer handle their own Oyster rather than staff member.

Ah OK :)

When i had my Oyster updated there did not appear to be any difference in the procedure and the member of staff handled all my cards.

Can I ask you at what station you got it updated?
 

45107

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I updated mine atEuston a week ago. Member of staff didn’t touch the cards (visual check of card numbers etc) but other than that, the same procedure as previous years.
All painless & done in quick time.
 

Mag_seven

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Managed to get my Oyster card updated at Paddington. Thanks to all who have recorded their experiences. (and to @RJ for looking into the TfL Intranet).
 

Mag_seven

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Managed to get my Oyster card updated at Paddington. Thanks to all who have recorded their experiences. (and to @RJ for looking into the TfL Intranet).

It's that time of the year again - can any safeguarded staff report at which LUL stations they have successfully got their priv discount entitlement updated for the 2021/2022 staff travel card issue?
 

6Gman

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It's that time of the year again - can any safeguarded staff report at which LUL stations they have successfully got their priv discount entitlement updated for the 2021/2022 staff travel card issue?
Did I read somewhere that those of us who didn't visit London at all in 2020 in view of Covid now have to go through the whole procedure again rather than a simple updating of our existing oysters?
 

Surreytraveller

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It's that time of the year again - can any safeguarded staff report at which LUL stations they have successfully got their priv discount entitlement updated for the 2021/2022 staff travel card issue?
Oxford Circus were very helpful!

Did I read somewhere that those of us who didn't visit London at all in 2020 in view of Covid now have to go through the whole procedure again rather than a simple updating of our existing oysters?
I think last year they extended the period it could be renewed, as long as you brought along your old and new boxes.
 

davetheguard

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Did I read somewhere that those of us who didn't visit London at all in 2020 in view of Covid now have to go through the whole procedure again rather than a simple updating of our existing oysters?

That is certainly what is being said on the rail staff travel section of the Rail Deliver Group's website. Like you, I didn't visit London in 2020, so have now filled in the online form to -as you say- start the whole procedure again.

I think last year they extended the period it could be renewed, as long as you brought along your old and new boxes.

Yes, you're right, but they are now saying that it is no longer possible to do that, and you have have to fill a form in again.
 

62484GlenLyon

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I can throw another 2 variations into the mix.

I am retired safeguarded. In July 2019 I had forgotten to update my wife's priv oyster. At Highgate LUL station the staff member, who was not used to doing such updates, coped very well and the fact that it was after 30th June made no difference.

Forward a year - In September 2020 I went to Liverpool St. LUL with both mine and my wife's Oyster cards and both STCs for 2019/20 and 2020/21, as per the instructions. The LUL staff member I approached said that he couldn't do it and sent me to GA's ticket office instead. Despite me doubting him I went to the GA office and got both cards revalidated in a matter of seconds.

So, within the next week or two I shall be making the GA ticket office at Liverpool St my first port of call for this year's update.
 

greyman42

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It's that time of the year again - can any safeguarded staff report at which LUL stations they have successfully got their priv discount entitlement updated for the 2021/2022 staff travel card issue?
I got mine done at Kings Cross St. Pancras at the back end of March.
 

dk1

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A member of Liverpool Street gateline Underground staff walked over to a machine & updated mine for 2021/22 last week. He couldn’t have been more friendly & helpful.
 

greyman42

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A member of Liverpool Street gateline Underground staff walked over to a machine & updated mine for 2021/22 last week. He couldn’t have been more friendly & helpful.
Yes, i have had mine done in recent years at Liverpool St. They were very good.
 

trek

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Noticed that TfL Rail and London Overground are discontinuing all Oyster services at their ticket offices by Monday 21st June, this leaves no where to get the correct non-safeguarded/NR Only PRIV discount set on an Oyster? I've heard a new method was being discussed but there's no detail as to what it is, not particularly helpful given the short notice of the ticket office change coinciding with last year's discount expiring in a few weeks, with this years cards still on the way?
 

MikeWh

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I've covered this on my site at: https://oysterfares.com/no-more-oyster-at-ticket-offices/.
The other change affects some NR staff who are entitled to get a staff discount applied to their Oyster card. This can only be done at National Rail stations and will still be possible, but the transaction will be done using a staff function at a ticket machine rather than in the ticket office.
The above has been confirmed to me by TfL. Please do let me know if you have any difficulties at either LO or TfL Rail stations.
 

Watershed

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I've covered this on my site at: https://oysterfares.com/no-more-oyster-at-ticket-offices/.

The above has been confirmed to me by TfL. Please do let me know if you have any difficulties at either LO or TfL Rail stations.
It would be good if they updated the "Where can you go" guide to reflect this! Unfortunately the latest version was issued just before TfL made their announcement.

Are you saying it will be possible to apply the discount at any National Rail station in London on the ticket machines? Or just at LO/XR stations?

On a sidenote, it would be helpful if TfL released data to allow you to look up what the Priv discounted Oyster fare for a given journey is. At the moment it can be a bit of a guessing game.
 

MikeWh

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Are you saying it will be possible to apply the discount at any National Rail station in London on the ticket machines? Or just at LO/XR stations?
Just the LO/TfL Rail stations. I'll make that clearer.
 

trek

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Just the LO/TfL Rail stations. I'll make that clearer.
Thanks for the clarification, I'll give it a go when I can. To be honest I didn't know those machines had a staff mode, thought it was just an LU thing.

On a sidenote, it would be helpful if TfL released data to allow you to look up what the Priv discounted Oyster fare for a given journey is. At the moment it can be a bit of a guessing game.
Personally I just use the Oyster-Rail/ LTFares/TfL's own site fare finder and divide by 4, that pretty much gives you the answer! Although you do need to know a bit of your routing around LU vs. NR services (plus there are some LU routes that do discount a Priv NR Only discount, e.g. Baker Street to the far out Met Line stations). I think some of the problem with providing a fare finder, not only is it a bit niche for a public tool - fares are complicated enough and there are 3 different priv discounts that could be added, plus child priv rates as well.
 

Mag_seven

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I don't know why TfL and the TOCs cannot just get together and nominate a small number of stations where both non Safeguarded and Safeguarded discounts can be applied. Would make things much simpler and end the lottery nature of trying to pick the correct station that have both the staff and the technology to be able to apply either discount.
 

trek

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I don't know why TfL and the TOCs cannot just get together and nominate a small number of stations where both non Safeguarded and Safeguarded discounts can be applied. Would make things much simpler and end the lottery nature of trying to pick the correct station that have both the staff and the technology to be able to apply either discount.
Agreed at this point it should just be possible on LU ticket machines, at the very least any LU ticket machines at stations also served by National Rail (including the London termini). It's ridiculous that when I travel into London I can't then have the discount set for my short local journey back out of the same termini without detouring out to the stations that can do it!

To add to confusion I'm pretty sure there are some LO/TfL Rail stations that only have the older type of ticket machines, not the most modern ones (the big silver ones) that have an interface similar to the tube, my guess would be only those newer ones have the staff menu. Plus at last check there aren't any LO ticket machines at Euston or TfL Rail ticket machines at Liverpool Street/Paddington for example...
 

Horizon22

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Just the LO/TfL Rail stations. I'll make that clearer.

So I'm a bit confised by this - so it needs to be at a LU machine, but one which is shared with a NR station? What's the difference between that and any other station? They're the same machines right?
 

trek

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So I'm a bit confised by this - so it needs to be at a LU machine, but one which is shared with a NR station? What's the difference between that and any other station? They're the same machines right?
By my reading it's TfL Rail and London Overground stations, many (but not all) have the large silver machines which have more Oyster functions (e.g. journey history) and a similar interface to an LU machine and look like this: https://twitter.com/futureshape/status/1023582863449628672/photo/1

My guess would be that machines like this one are not able to do it, at my last check they very basic Oyster functionality (only top up) - but they could have been upgraded: https://cdn.prgloo.com/media/6097a7788e144ad98314a7d1f59b504c?width=580&height=580
 

Horizon22

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By my reading it's TfL Rail and London Overground stations, many (but not all) have the large silver machines which have more Oyster functions (e.g. journey history) and a similar interface to an LU machine and look like this: https://twitter.com/futureshape/status/1023582863449628672/photo/1

My guess would be that machines like this one are not able to do it, at my last check they very basic Oyster functionality (only top up) - but they could have been upgraded: https://cdn.prgloo.com/media/6097a7788e144ad98314a7d1f59b504c?width=580&height=580

Urgh what a mess! I last got my done at London Bridge but there was a lot of back and forth. If its hard enough for safeguarded, what hope do non-safeguarded/ NR-only have?!
 

Watershed

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Personally I just use the Oyster-Rail/ LTFares/TfL's own site fare finder and divide by 4, that pretty much gives you the answer! Although you do need to know a bit of your routing around LU vs. NR services (plus there are some LU routes that do discount a Priv NR Only discount, e.g. Baker Street to the far out Met Line stations). I think some of the problem with providing a fare finder, not only is it a bit niche for a public tool - fares are complicated enough and there are 3 different priv discounts that could be added, plus child priv rates as well.
Well that's the problem - if only it were as simple as knowing that, if it's a National Rail service you'll get the discount.

There are plenty of legitimate National Rail journeys which are priced on the Tube fare scale. How are you then to know what discount will be applied? And when do interavailable routes mean you get a discount? It's a minefield.
 

trek

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Well that's the problem - if only it were as simple as knowing that, if it's a National Rail service you'll get the discount.

There are plenty of legitimate National Rail journeys which are priced on the Tube fare scale. How are you then to know what discount will be applied? And when do interavailable routes mean you get a discount? It's a minefield.
It is as simple as National Rail service means you get a discount - the exact fare can be worked out using the fares calculators, this will give you the overall public rate for journey. The Priv NR Only discount will then be 75% of that public fare, it doesn't matter which fare scale your journey uses, as long as your journey is entirely on National Rail and doesn't use the the tube or DLR you will get 75% off whatever the public fare is for that route.

The limited cases where NR Priv Oyster is applied to LU/DLR journeys can then be found on the last page of this document: https://www.raildeliverygroup.com/files/Publications/services/rst/RST_NR_Only_Priv_Oyster.pdf (an out of date document, but that list is correct). All of these are journeys where the tube/DLR route parallels a National Rail route, but it clarifies a few situations where LU services use a neighbouring station/different gateline.

I agree it would be good to have a proper calculator (even an unofficial one or just in the TfL Open Data for third parties to provide), but in terms of knowing when the discount will be applied this is as simple as NR = 75% discount, journey involves LU/DLR = no discount - there's a few edge cases on LU as detailed above, but they are limited enough that you could just take them as an unexpected bonus (or if in doubt just use the parallel NR service where you'll definitely get the discount...)
 
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