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Privilege travel before BR

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70014IronDuke

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Here's one for the history buffs.

What was the situation regarding priv travel in the days of the Big Four? Come to that, before the Big Four?

Did railways offer priv travel and/or free tickets across each others' lines, or was it strictly on one's own company's lines? Or something in between? Or did it depend on grade?
 
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ChiefPlanner

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Senior managers would be gifted "all line passes" on a random and reciprocal basis on other companies - I doubt for example that the General Manager of the Neath and Brecon got a GWR one , but he might have got one for the Cambrian. Lesser mortals could write and apply for a one off journey , on another company , which might be granted as an act of goodwill. Most employees would get at least one pass a year on their own system , but could purchase privilige tickets with little restriction.

I suspect it was the formation of British Railways that opened up much wider travel opportunities , and reciprocal arrangements for privs on the London Underground.
 

Journeyman

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BR's generosity with Priv tickets was almost entirely motivated by their inability to pay good wages, and was used as an attempt to get people to work for them. Prior to BR being formed, I'm not sure this was quite so much of a problem.
 

ChiefPlanner

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BR's generosity with Priv tickets was almost entirely motivated by their inability to pay good wages, and was used as an attempt to get people to work for them. Prior to BR being formed, I'm not sure this was quite so much of a problem.

A very good point. In zero unemployment Attlee Britain , and also generous residential travel assisted the labour "challenge
 

furnessvale

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Senior managers would be gifted "all line passes" on a random and reciprocal basis on other companies - I doubt for example that the General Manager of the Neath and Brecon got a GWR one , but he might have got one for the Cambrian. Lesser mortals could write and apply for a one off journey , on another company , which might be granted as an act of goodwill. Most employees would get at least one pass a year on their own system , but could purchase privilige tickets with little restriction.

I suspect it was the formation of British Railways that opened up much wider travel opportunities , and reciprocal arrangements for privs on the London Underground.
I believe the old Southern Railway were particularly mean.

I joined BR in 1964 but even then, using Edmondson type tickets, it was rare to be nipped on the Southern so that an "unused" ticket could be taken back to the staff office and recredited on your card! :)
 

70014IronDuke

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BR's generosity with Priv tickets was almost entirely motivated by their inability to pay good wages, and was used as an attempt to get people to work for them. Prior to BR being formed, I'm not sure this was quite so much of a problem.

It certainly worked for me! Regular and international priv/freebies were major attractions for me at the end of the 60s.

But I think it was important pre-BR too. I remember reading the memoirs of someone who grew up in Woodford Halse - a driver's daughter I think, and before WW2. And she made a point of how fequently they travelled by train compared to other kids. I did get the impression this was mostly trips to Leicester and the like, with perhaps a summer holiday trip once a year, BICBW.
 

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Priv and free travel was (and in retirement) was /is a major and much appreciated perk. Tax was paid on it for a while , but later removed.

As a Management Trainee (sorry to those who will never get it now) - on day one we were gifted a standard class "All Stations" pass for one year - which was meant to encourage one to travel around and observe as necessary - which you lost when you were finished with training. You then relied on (I think) 6 free tickets a year- which you applied for via the staff clerk who wrote them out on a blue Edmondson card - for the route of your choice. A common one was Penzance to a Continental port , or something like Weymouth Quay to Wick. Part of the game , and most guards and TTI's just smiled benevolently as it was almost in effect a "go anywhere" ticket. Replaced by cars with "boxes" to self date at some point in the mid 1980's which reduced office work and so on.

For "work" purposes - you got the same tickets , but you could always plead "travelling with a senior manager" which got you a white car ticket and a 1st class (where provided) upgrade.

LT priv tickets were green and white Edmondson for staff - for I think 10p single and 20p return - wonderful value for money.

The goal for my generation was to get to MS1 , which gave you first class travel , MS2 for a Regional Pass + your allocation and then MS4 for an all stations pass. Senior Officers go medallions on a chain. About the size of a £1 coin.

Of course - as jobs were cut out , it could be a challenge to even get to MS1 , and the hierarchy of "allowances" got tighter as BR re-organized. A fabulous perk - but then - wages were not great and management often did a lot more hours than the rostered wages staff. (unpaid I have to point out , and very modest increments for being "on call" ,which led to some very long days and weekends and broken nights)
 

TheEdge

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Do the almost mythical "medallion" passes count. I know one ex-BR guard at my depot claims to have come across an old boy who still had one many many years ago.
 

ChiefPlanner

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Do the almost mythical "medallion" passes count. I know one ex-BR guard at my depot claims to have come across an old boy who still had one many many years ago.

Old school medallions were in use until sometime in the 1980's , the fortunate owners may have been allowed to keep them as a souvenier , so this old boy might have been using his habitually. They were replaced by a plastic pass , which was gold coloured !

Someone I worked with , who rose pretty high up the organisation , started life in the HQ Staff Office at 222 , Marylebone Road and his first job was to recover pre grouping passes and medallions from deceased ex senior officers. By all accounts , senior officers of say the Southern , LMS etc , had their company passes "extended" to cover the whole of BR (which saved the job of issuing new ones in the 1950's to existing beneficiaries) - new entitlements were given newly struck BR medallions.

The result is that a treasure of wonderful passes - some in silver and gold apparently rolled in - they were assessed and sent to jewellers for scrapping and melting down. He regrets not keeping one or two - but that would have been risky as there was an audit trail. I think he said the "owners" name was engraved on them. This must have been mid to late 1960's.
 

Highlandspring

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I knew someone who had a medallion and, indeed, I saw it a few times. He died about years ago. I know plenty of safeguarded management grade silver status passes (bands 3 and above/Controller 1 in Network Rail) but no gold pass holders sadly.
 

mailbyrail

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I was also the happy recipient of the all stations pass as a management trainee in the 1970s - but only for the region. Off duty trips in walking gear at weekends were sometimes regarded very suspiciously but never led to the challenges which seem to be a feature of today's fragmented system.
My father as a lowly Western Region booking clerk in the 1950s only got free passes for the region, I think that improved sometime in the 1960s. Still got us from Stratford on Avon to Devon but as a child I never understood why we rarely went to Exmouth but often to Dawlish and Teignmouth!
Even in the 1970s, wages grades (guards, porters etc) didn't get very much until they became 'established', can't quite remember what that entailed - was it 5 years service?
 

etr221

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Col Stephens (of light railway fame) was noted for the number of passes for other railways that he had - I think the museum at Tenterden has them - which covered most of the country. He did issue passes for his own lines in return, but these were of much less use...
 

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I knew someone who had a medallion and, indeed, I saw it a few times. He died about years ago. I know plenty of safeguarded management grade silver status passes (bands 3 and above/Controller 1 in Network Rail) but no gold pass holders sadly.

There is , of course a quota for travel perks , even in today's railway.

I think Gold Pass holders also got "free" sleeper berths - a source of great interest to some commentators on here. There was also a distinction between "all station and ships" - dating back to Sealink.

For my own (much valued) concessions , I am not old enough to get Caledonian McBrayne , but I do have "free travel" on the Tyne and Wear Metro. Must use that sometime. 1979 vintage.
 

ChiefPlanner

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Some management trainee passes were stamped "also available in brake vans or rear cabs" .....

Can you imagine the froth that would cause today ?
 

furnessvale

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Some management trainee passes were stamped "also available in brake vans or rear cabs" .....

Can you imagine the froth that would cause today ?
As a perway engineer I had access to a footplate pass as required to check track condition by ride quality.

Mind you access to any cab was ALWAYS with permission of the driver concerned notwithstanding holding a pass.

I was never refused access, having family connections to the footplate grade helped.
 

Highlandspring

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There is , of course a quota for travel perks , even in today's railway.
Yes it’s literally dead men’s shoes for silver passes - as in you’re genuinely waiting for someone to die. I remember the day one of my colleagues received word from ATOC that the silver pass he’d been waiting on for years was now available; he was over the moon!
 

ChiefPlanner

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Yes it’s literally dead men’s shoes for silver passes - as in you’re genuinely waiting for someone to die. I remember the day one of my colleagues received word from ATOC that the silver pass he’d been waiting on for years was now available; he was over the moon!

Good stuff - and I can think of several people in the same scenario. They got there in the end.
 

Bald Rick

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I think Gold Pass holders also got "free" sleeper berths - a source of great interest to some commentators on here. There was also a distinction between "all station and ships" - dating back to Sealink.

Still do Guv’.

Yes it’s literally dead men’s shoes for silver passes - as in you’re genuinely waiting for someone to die. I remember the day one of my colleagues received word from ATOC that the silver pass he’d been waiting on for years was now available; he was over the moon!

It isn’t. The quota is for active employees, ie employed by the company. You are simply waiting for someone with travel facilities to leave the company. As the quotas haven’t dropped, and it has been 23 years since any new starters could have BR travel facilities, I’d be surprised if there was a waiting list for any passes now.
 

Springs Branch

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Yes it’s literally dead men’s shoes for silver passes - as in you’re genuinely waiting for someone to die. I remember the day one of my colleagues received word from ATOC that the silver pass he’d been waiting on for years was now available; he was over the moon!
Sounds like a good plot for a future episode of Midsomer Murders.

Plenty of bucolic heritage railways around where they could film Inspector Whatsisname solving the mystery surrounding Old Charlie's Gold Silver Pass. Of course if they ever made such an episode, I wouldn't get to see it (I avoid that twaddle like the plague), but Mrs S.B. would probably tell me about it.
 

Taunton

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Stewart Joy, Beeching's economist, wrote in his autobiography of those times that he went to Edinburgh to examine the accounts and found a very early morning train from Berwick to Edinburgh which was shown as having some 100 passengers (and thus justified), which did not seem to tie with the receipts, so he checked further and found that only about 10 passengers were fare paying, the majority were rail staff, wages grades, reporting for duty and travelling free. However, the way the accounting was assembled just recorded passengers, without indicating if they were revenue generating or not.

A classmate at university was son of a senior manager, so he got a first class allocation as well, along with sleeper berth. He introduced me to having tickets made out as Penzance to Thurso, which effectively made it an all-line pass. He also said no ticket inspector ever nipped it, so it lasted as long as required.

In younger times back in Somerset we knew well a onetime driver from St Philips Marsh who had gone into business in the 1950s-60s as a travel agent organising trips to Ostend in his former homeland Belgium (I think he had been in the RAF in WW2, stayed and joined the railway afterwards). He principally took railwaymen, who he marketed to, they got all the travel part of the package free, both rail to Dover and the ship (Belgian state owned although not by SNCB but apparently valid), and just paid for the hotel. For most it was their first foreign travel.
 

Hellzapoppin

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No waiting any more for Silver Passes, mine came within a fortnight of filling out the forms.
 

AndrewE

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No waiting any more for Silver Passes, mine came within a fortnight of filling out the forms.
Probably a legacy of the nationalised industry which was big enough to be able to make an agreement then to honour it.
 

70014IronDuke

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Priv and free travel was (and in retirement) was /is a major and much appreciated perk. Tax was paid on it for a while , but later removed

Do you mean tax was paid on the priv and free travel as a blanket tax at one time? This would have been annoying to those who rarely made use of the privilege.

I seem to remember that in the 70s and staff grade, if you commuted to work, you had a free commute season for eight (?) miles and then you had to pay 1/4 rate beyond that - with, perhaps, a taxable wedge as well?

I know that in 1973 or so I lived near Ripley and we got freebie travel from Belper to Derby - I think Belper was the limit, and had we gone from Ambergate we'd have been charged and taxed to boot. BICBW, it was a long time ago.

As a Management Trainee (sorry to those who will never get it now) - on day one we were gifted a standard class "All Stations" pass for one year - which was meant to encourage one to travel around and observe as necessary...

Ooooh. That really was some perk!
 

furnessvale

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Do you mean tax was paid on the priv and free travel as a blanket tax at one time? This would have been annoying to those who rarely made use of the privilege.

I seem to remember that in the 70s and staff grade, if you commuted to work, you had a free commute season for eight (?) miles and then you had to pay 1/4 rate beyond that - with, perhaps, a taxable wedge as well?

I know that in 1973 or so I lived near Ripley and we got freebie travel from Belper to Derby - I think Belper was the limit, and had we gone from Ambergate we'd have been charged and taxed to boot. BICBW, it was a long time ago.
IIRC free travel was valued at £10 so you paid tax on £10, in modern terms about £2 tax.

I cannot remember if a priv season ticket was taxed additionally or not.
 

AndrewE

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IIRC free travel was valued at £10 so you paid tax on £10, in modern terms about £2 tax.

I cannot remember if a priv season ticket was taxed additionally or not.
I don't remember ever paying tax on my free and priv travel before privatisation, maybe I will dig out my old notification of codings. The employer (BR) ran trains, so it was assumed there was no cost in allowing staff to travel on them. After privatisation I think it changed: non-TOC employers had to pay for their staff to have them (and the big lump for travel in retirement) so the employees had to pay tax on what the employer had paid.
 

Bald Rick

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Do you mean tax was paid on the priv and free travel as a blanket tax at one time? This would have been annoying to those who rarely made use of the privilege.

I seem to remember that in the 70s and staff grade, if you commuted to work, you had a free commute season for eight (?) miles and then you had to pay 1/4 rate beyond that - with, perhaps, a taxable wedge as well?

I know that in 1973 or so I lived near Ripley and we got freebie travel from Belper to Derby - I think Belper was the limit, and had we gone from Ambergate we'd have been charged and taxed to boot. BICBW, it was a long time ago.



Ooooh. That really was some perk!

For those who still have ‘BR’ style free travel, tax is paid on the amount it costs the employer to buy the benefit from RDG, which is about £1500. This is regardless of how often it is used by the employee.

It still is the case that for those without status passes, residential travel to work is 8 miles free, then 1/4rate beyond that. It’s 40 miles free for those based in London. Which explains why some towns were particularly popular for railway employees - Leighton Buzzard, Hitchin / Baldock, Witham, Haywards Heath, Fleet - as far out of London as you could get for free, and cheap housing (this was 20-30 years ago!)
 

furnessvale

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I don't remember ever paying tax on my free and priv travel before privatisation, maybe I will dig out my old notification of codings. The employer (BR) ran trains, so it was assumed there was no cost in allowing staff to travel on them. After privatisation I think it changed: non-TOC employers had to pay for their staff to have them (and the big lump for travel in retirement) so the employees had to pay tax on what the employer had paid.
It is classed as a "benefit in kind" and, as some on this thread have alluded to, it was a draw towards career choice for some.
 

philthetube

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Still do Guv’.



It isn’t. The quota is for active employees, ie employed by the company. You are simply waiting for someone with travel facilities to leave the company. As the quotas haven’t dropped, and it has been 23 years since any new starters could have BR travel facilities, I’d be surprised if there was a waiting list for any passes now.
April 1996

Do you mean tax was paid on the priv and free travel as a blanket tax at one time? This would have been annoying to those who rarely made use of the privilege.

Tax stopped being paid after a court case when it was decided that the amount taxed should be the cost to the provider and not the value of the benefit to the employee.
 
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