PRM-TSI derogations: DfT publish letters with the details

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ainsworth74

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The DfT have today in the last few hours before the deadline kicks in published the various letters to operators, ROSCOs and the ORR that give exemptions for various pieces of non-compliant rolling stock and the conditions that are attached to those exemptions (for instance, only some units, only on x routes, only if coupled to complaint units, etc). I think quit a lot of this was already public domain but the letters contain the specific details.

There's quite a lot of stuff on the web page but most of the relevant letters can be found under the section "Time Limited Dispensations". I hope this is of interest to you all!

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/heavy-rail-fleets-2020-targeted-compliance
 
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The DfT have today in the last few hours before the deadline kicks in published the various letters to operators, ROSCOs and the ORR that give exemptions for various pieces of non-compliant rolling stock and the conditions that are attached to those exemptions (for instance, only some units, only on x routes, only if coupled to complaint units, etc). I think quit a lot of this was already public domain but the letters contain the specific details.

There's quite a lot of stuff on the web page but most of the relevant letters can be found under the section "Time Limited Dispensations". I hope this is of interest to you all!

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/heavy-rail-fleets-2020-targeted-compliance


EMR summary, as far as my quick skim goes:
Current EMR HSTs: Exemption until end of July 2020
Replacement ex-LNER HSTs: Exemption until end of December 2020

Obviously, these can be further extended if necessary but it gives some sort of indication. As I've said before, I'd be surprised if the Corby electrification required to remove the ex-LNER HSTs (by freeing up the required class 222s) will happen on time so I can see the ex-LNER HSTs carrying on at least part way into 2021.
 

Failed Unit

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EMR summary, as far as my quick skim goes:
Current EMR HSTs: Exemption until end of July 2020
Replacement ex-LNER HSTs: Exemption until end of December 2020

Obviously, these can be further extended if necessary but it gives some sort of indication.

Very depressing reading - looks like Lincolnshire is stuck with single coach 153s for another year. :(
 

ainsworth74

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Yes so for East Midlands Railway it appears that the state play is as follows:

Inter-City Fleet

9x 8-car HSTs (original to the franchise) - Exemption granted to 28 July 2020
3x 6-car HSTs (ex-GC sets) - Exemption granted to 31 December 2020
9x 8-car HSTs (ex-LNER sets) - Exemption granted to 31 December 2020

Regional Fleet

19x Class 153 - Exemption applies only on specified routes (see below) or if scheduled to be coupled to compliant unit. Exemption granted to 31 December 2020.

Specified routes:

• Doncaster to Peterborough
• Newark to Grimsby
• Derby to Crewe

So, EMR can keep twelve sets of HSTs in public service until the end of 2020 and we also have some idea of when the LNER sets must be in service with EMR as their existing 8-car HSTs are banned after July (unless, of course, a further exemption is granted). Meanwhile on regional routes there should be an end to any solo 153 operation outside of a few specific routes as otherwise they can only really be used to boost capacity on 156/158 services.

One thing I've spotted is that there's a pair of 153s that are currently on lease to West Midlands Trains and I don't think they've been granted an exemption either with EMR or WMT so perhaps there's been an oversight?

Very depressing reading - looks like Lincolnshire is stuck with single coach 153s for another year. :(

Nowhere near as badly as they are currently!
 

Failed Unit

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Nowhere near as badly as they are currently!

?

I interpreted that as we would see no change as currently Newark - Grimsby and Doncaster- Lincoln - Peterborough is a 153 operation and EMR don’t need to change that until next December, so the practice of leaving passengers behind and suppression of growth is ok for another year. Did I miss something. The other routes not exempted normally don’t suffer from solo 153s anyway.
 

ainsworth74

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With regards to Northern the state of play is quite interesting as well.

Pacers

24x Class 142s - Exemption to 31 May 2020 but only when scheduled to be coupled to a compliant unit.
23x Class 144s - Exemption to 31 August 2020 but only on the following specified routes:

• Leeds to Huddersfield
• Leeds to Sheffield
• Leeds to Knottingley
• Sheffield to Adwick
• Sheffield to Huddersfield via Penistone
• Sheffield to Gainsborough Central / Lincoln
• Huddersfield to Bradford Interchange via Halifax
• Huddersfield to Castleford via Wakefield
• Doncaster to Scunthorpe
• Sheffield to York via Rotherham and Moorthorpe
• York to Leeds via Micklefield
• York to Selby / Hull / Bridlington
• Bradford Interchange to Leeds
• Doncaster to Leeds
So from tomorrow Northern can only use twenty-four 142s and only when scheduled* to be coupled with a complaint unit. Meanwhile they can keep all the 144s in service but only on specified routes rather than specified routes or if coupled to a compliant unit. Though to be fair I think the list includes basically everywhere that a 144 would usually go anyway so I guess there would be no utility to adding a "if coupled to compliant" unit exemption!

*Scheduled is an interesting choice of wording. I assume it's to leave the flexibility to run a 142 solo if its compliant running mate fails during the day.

Sprinters

7x Class 150 - Exemption granted until 30 September 2020
6x Class 156 - Exemption granted until 31 December 2020
20x Class 153 - Exemption granted until 31 December 2020 but only if scheduled to operate with a compliant unit or on the following specified routes:

• Huddersfield to Bradford via Halifax
• Huddersfield to Castleford via Wakefield
• Huddersfield to Sheffield via Penistone
• Doncaster to Scunthorpe
• Barton upon Humber to Cleethorpes​

I assume that the 150s and 156s are just those that haven't yet made it through the PRM compliance work that's been ongoing with their fleet mates. So I'd gamble that they'll be finished before the new deadlines approach.

The 153s also gain a stay of execution for use to strengthen other services or to operate by themselves on a handful of routes. Looking at those routes I don't see that there's any reason for concern with capacity as I believe they're all well known for carting air about even on a 153!!

EMU

12x Class 323 - Exemption granted until 31 October 2020

As with the sprinters I assume that these just haven't yet got through their PRM modifications yet so will presumably also not worry the new deadline for their compliance too much.
 

ainsworth74

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I interpreted that as we would see no change as currently Newark - Grimsby and Doncaster- Lincoln - Peterborough is a 153 operation and EMR don’t need to change that until next December, so the practice of leaving passengers behind and suppression of growth is ok for another year. Did I miss something. The other routes not exempted normally don’t suffer from solo 153s anyway.

You would known better than I but I was always under the impression that they could show up solo almost anywhere on the regional EMR services (admittedly not solo to Liverpool or Norwich).
 

Cardiff123

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Interesting that there's no letter for TfW 150/2s on that webpage, but TfW have admitted that so far only around 20 out of their 36 x 150s are fully PRM modified.
Also, none of the TfW dispensation letters specify specific routes to confine non-PRM compliant trains to, or specify that non-compliant trains must be coupled to compliant ones.
 

ainsworth74

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Interesting that there's no letter for TfW 150/2s on that webpage, but TfW have admitted that so far only around 20 out of their 36 x 150s are fully PRM modified.
Also, none of the TfW dispensation letters specify specific routes to confine non-PRM compliant trains to, or specify that non-compliant trains must be coupled to compliant ones.

It's possible they've been given a blanket exemption if it's just a few minor issues rather than a time limited one as that information appears to be listed elsewhere on the webpage.

For example it appears that the GWR short HST sets have been given an permanent exemption from needing to comply with the regulations for things like the size of the baby changing tables, the toilet set height or radius of handrails. But as it's permanent it doesn't appear on this page of GWR time limited exemptions which only deals with the 143s (exemption through to 31 December 2020 but only if coupled to compliant unit).
 

ainsworth74

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It looks like for SouthEastern their 466s have a permanent exemption when they run with 465s (and only with 465s) as well as being given a limited exemption through to 31 December 2020 for solo operation on the Grove Park to Bromley North line. I think the future of Bromley North was something which was vexing a few people so they can rest easy that services will still exist tomorrow!
 

ainsworth74

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Who knew they would grant exemptions? Oh, that's right: me

I have said this for several years. It is not a suprise.

I'm not sure it is a surprise to anyone? The broad brush of a lot of these has been public for a number of weeks now whilst the impending doom has been talked about for quite a lot longer (I sure Mr Ford of Modern Railways brought it up four or five years ago)! The interesting thing is the detail. I.e. exactly what conditions have been imposed and how long the exemptions are.
Anyone want odds on further extensions?

Considering the length of the exemptions already granted I don't think you'll get good ones for anyone other than EMR and their HSTs.
 

43096

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Considering the length of the exemptions already granted I don't think you'll get good ones for anyone other than EMR and their HSTs.
Given that Bombardier haven't delivered a single one of Greater Anglia's Aventras I reckon some 321s are a good punt for needing an extension. Might be a few 153s needing extensions as well!
 

ainsworth74

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Given that Bombardier haven't delivered a single one of Greater Anglia's Aventras I reckon some 321s are a good punt for needing an extension.

Oh yes now that you mention it that's not a bad shout! I've never really managed to keep a good handle on what's going on with that fleet as there's just so many ruddy EMUs down there to be dealt with :lol:
 

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?

I interpreted that as we would see no change as currently Newark - Grimsby and Doncaster- Lincoln - Peterborough is a 153 operation and EMR don’t need to change that until next December, so the practice of leaving passengers behind and suppression of growth is ok for another year. Did I miss something. The other routes not exempted normally don’t suffer from solo 153s anyway.
Spot on.

Same old stinky cramped trains for another 12 months (or more) on Crewe to Derby.

So much for all the fanfare at franchise launch of 'new and fully refurbished trains'.

Happy new year from the country's worst train operator Abellio!
 

F Great Eastern

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Given that Bombardier haven't delivered a single one of Greater Anglia's Aventras I reckon some 321s are a good punt for needing an extension. Might be a few 153s needing extensions as well!

I wouldn't rule out the 90s getting extended either if at all possible, since if the roll-out of the 745s is even half like as slow and hit by problems as the 755s is, they're going to struggle.

In the second half of the year all 379s and 360s are leaving Greater Anglia so if the 720 situation is still bad then, they're going to have problems even if they get exemptions for the 317s and 321s.
 

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I wouldn't rule out the 90s getting extended either if at all possible, since if the roll-out of the 745s is even half like as slow and hit by problems as the 755s is, they're going to struggle.

In the second half of the year all 379s and 360s are leaving Greater Anglia so if the 720 situation is still bad then, they're going to have problems even if they get exemptions for the 317s and 321s.
The 317s and 90s have been extended to April and the 321s to December. As if all 317s will be gone by April. 321s definitely not, only the 90s may be mostly 745 by May if nothing goes wrong (a BIG if).
Whoever decided this clearly has no idea - it looks like no one from the GA (operational or executive side) has even been consulted on this.
 

Mitchell Hurd

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Yes so for East Midlands Railway it appears that the state play is as follows:

Inter-City Fleet

9x 8-car HSTs (original to the franchise) - Exemption granted to 28 July 2020
3x 6-car HSTs (ex-GC sets) - Exemption granted to 31 December 2020
9x 8-car HSTs (ex-LNER sets) - Exemption granted to 31 December 2020

Regional Fleet

19x Class 153 - Exemption applies only on specified routes (see below) or if scheduled to be coupled to compliant unit. Exemption granted to 31 December 2020.

Specified routes:

• Doncaster to Peterborough
• Newark to Grimsby
• Derby to Crewe

So, EMR can keep twelve sets of HSTs in public service until the end of 2020 and we also have some idea of when the LNER sets must be in service with EMR as their existing 8-car HSTs are banned after July (unless, of course, a further exemption is granted). Meanwhile on regional routes there should be an end to any solo 153 operation outside of a few specific routes as otherwise they can only really be used to boost capacity on 156/158 services.

One thing I've spotted is that there's a pair of 153s that are currently on lease to West Midlands Trains and I don't think they've been granted an exemption either with EMR or WMT so perhaps there's been an oversight?



Nowhere near as badly as they are currently!

So that means 6-7 more months of Paxman VP185's then :)? If so, I'll make sure to make the most of them by doing a trip to and from London St. Pancras - Leicester, East Midlands parkway or Nottingham!
 

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The 317s and 90s have been extended to April and the 321s to December. As if all 317s will be gone by April. 321s definitely not, only the 90s may be mostly 745 by May if nothing goes wrong (a BIG if).
Whoever decided this clearly has no idea - it looks like no one from the GA (operational or executive side) has even been consulted on this.
Bizarre Comment. This will be a result of what GA have asked for, no-one has dreamed it up on their behalf.
 

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The Northern Class 156 derogation letter doesn't seem to cover the 5 ex-Scotrail examples. Are these going off lease now or can / are they going to be used with compliant units ?
 

ainsworth74

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The Northern Class 156 derogation letter doesn't seem to cover the 5 ex-Scotrail examples. Are these going off lease now or can / are they going to be used with compliant units ?

Would it be the five listed in this letter?
 

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So for the GA EMU fleet the expectation is;
20 x 317 to retire October 2020.
18 x 317 to be made PRM-Compliant by April 2020.
27 x 317s available for service beyond October 2020.
Entire 321 fleet available until 1 December 2020. Renatus only beyond that.

So long as the 745/1 are mostly available by May, that all seems achievable.
 

Marton

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Very depressing reading - looks like Lincolnshire is stuck with single coach 153s for another year. :(
If it’s specified route only is it right to interpret it as excluding the Nottingham services on the Peterborough Doncaster route.

if so surely all the later services to Spalding can’t be 153 as it’s effectively a shuttle to/from Peterborough till the last one which extends to Nottingham.
 

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It looks like for SouthEastern their 466s have a permanent exemption when they run with 465s (and only with 465s) as well as being given a limited exemption through to 31 December 2020 for solo operation on the Grove Park to Bromley North line. I think the future of Bromley North was something which was vexing a few people so they can rest easy that services will still exist tomorrow!

I think many were banking on a derogation as there was simply no suitable alternative on a franchise which should have ended 2 years ago for trains that have max 5 minute journeys.
 

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Bizarre Comment. This will be a result of what GA have asked for, no-one has dreamed it up on their behalf.
You obviously haven’t got a clue on the GA situation then. If they were the ones that asked for it, it’s someone with no idea of the extent of rolling stock delays going on and that’s before they tend to the infrastructure shortcomings.
 

delticdave

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I wouldn't rule out the 90s getting extended either if at all possible, since if the roll-out of the 745s is even half like as slow and hit by problems as the 755s is, they're going to struggle.

In the second half of the year all 379s and 360s are leaving Greater Anglia so if the 720 situation is still bad then, they're going to have problems even if they get exemptions for the 317s and 321s.

Please forgive my ignorance, where / who is taking on the 30-odd 379's?
 
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