Problems caused by lack of public toilets

[westv]

Moderator note: split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/non-essential-retail-to-reopen-by-june-15th.204832/

I'm sure they'll be many people unable to make use of the reopened shops opening due to the lack of open public toilets.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Surely there's no rules on keeping public toilets shut? I know many local authorities panicked and closed them unnecessarily but, as we're told to wash our hands frequently, why keep shut the only places you can do that when you're out and about?

 

[AM9]

Surely there's no rules on keeping public toilets shut? I know many local authorities panicked and closed them unnecessarily but, as we're told to wash our hands frequently, why keep shut the only places you can do that when you're out and about?

Other than the need to have an attendant who will clean surfaces that have been touched between each use. That also means restricting the entry to one (or whatever number can safely be accommodated) at a time. I'm sure that those whose responsibility it is to ensure everybody's safety have thought about it more than some of the members here judging by these posts.

 

[yorkie]

Other than the need to have an attendant who will clean surfaces that have been touched between each use. That also means restricting the entry to one (or whatever number can safely be accommodated) at a time. I'm sure that those whose responsibility it is to ensure everybody's safety have thought about it more than some of the members here judging by these posts.

Surely this cannot be the case that toilets can only open if an attendant is there to clean surfaces after each use. The advice to everyone is to wash your hands regularly, and if people follow that advice, there really isn't an issue.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Other than the need to have an attendant who will clean surfaces that have been touched between each use. That also means restricting the entry to one (or whatever number can safely be accommodated) at a time. I'm sure that those whose responsibility it is to ensure everybody's safety have thought about it more than some of the members here judging by these posts.

I'm not sure there's any real need for this. Just carry a bottle of sanitiser, and sanitise your hands before and after use (or carefully wash in the sink, but bear in mind that anything you touch may be infected, so possibly best wash then sanitise for the best of both worlds). It probably also makes sense to rope off the urinals and use only the cubicles. And queue outside 2m apart, obviously.

 

[AM9]

I'm not sure there's any real need for this. Just carry a bottle of sanitiser, and sanitise your hands before and after use (or carefully wash in the sink, but bear in mind that anything you touch may be infected, so possibly best wash then sanitise for the best of both worlds). It probably also makes sense to rope off the urinals and use only the cubicles. And queue outside 2m apart, obviously.

By the same arguments, there's no need to clean supermarket trolley handles, bus and train handles etc., - just tell everybody to wear gloves and/or carry sanitiser. I haven't seen any conditions like that mentioned.

 

[MikeWM]

The public toilets in Sheringham town centre were open as usual when I visited on Tuesday. If they can, not sure why anyone else can't.

 

[yorksrob]

I'm not sure there's any real need for this. Just carry a bottle of sanitiser, and sanitise your hands before and after use (or carefully wash in the sink, but bear in mind that anything you touch may be infected, so possibly best wash then sanitise for the best of both worlds). It probably also makes sense to rope off the urinals and use only the cubicles. And queue outside 2m apart, obviously.

I would have thought that urinals were less risky, on account of there being fewer surfaces to touch.

 

[Scrotnig]

The public toilets in Sheringham town centre were open as usual when I visited on Tuesday. If they can, not sure why anyone else can't.

Because many councils seem to have used this crisis as an excuse to stop providing as many services as they can get away with.

 

[yorkie]

Because many councils seem to have used this crisis as an excuse to stop providing as many services as they can get away with.

To be fair to councils, they will be suffering from staff shortages, reduced income and additional costs.

 

[westv]

Could the lack of toilet facilities be classed as discriminatory??

 

[AM9]

Could the lack of toilet facilities be classed as discriminatory??

Given that nearly everybody needs them, not really.

 

[underbank]

Surely this cannot be the case that toilets can only open if an attendant is there to clean surfaces after each use. The advice to everyone is to wash your hands regularly, and if people follow that advice, there really isn't an issue.

That is the problem. How do you enforce/check that people are following the advice??

They didn't in March when, despite symptoms, people still went on holiday, to the pub, to Cheltenham Races and to the Anfield match.

Some people havn't been following the lockdown rules since the day they started.

 

[underbank]

Because many councils seem to have used this crisis as an excuse to stop providing as many services as they can get away with.

Councils have been closing public loos for decades. It's one of the first things to go when they get short of money. We lost our village loos back around 2005.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I would have thought that urinals were less risky, on account of there being fewer surfaces to touch.

The problem being you'd have to close 3 out of every 4 to keep people 2m apart.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Given that nearly everybody needs them, not really.

Some people more than others (and men can far more readily "use the trees" than women). I would like to see a case against the Government on these grounds for e.g. public parks often not having them.

 

[yorkie]

That is the problem. How do you enforce/check that people are following the advice??

They didn't in March when, despite symptoms, people still went on holiday, to the pub, to Cheltenham Races and to the Anfield match.

Some people havn't been following the lockdown rules since the day they started.

How does closing toilets (and therefore reduce handwashing facilities) help the situation?

Given that nearly everybody needs them, not really.

It's not as simple as that.

Coronavirus: When will public toilets be reopened?

The lack of public loos has led to reports of visitors defecating in public spaces.

www.bbc.co.uk

The charity Crohn's and Colitis UK says boarded up public toilets are having a "massive impact" on people and has urged councils and other bodies to open them up "as soon as they can", provided social distancing measures are "safely put in place".

The charity's campaigns manager, Sarah Hollobone, says it is not acceptable to push people with the chronic conditions "further into the shadows and heighten their isolation at a time when staying connected and healthy is harder than ever before".

"This will not only dramatically improve the quality of life for people with Crohn's or Colitis, but also people with other conditions that require toilet access", she says.

It's not just people with medical conditions that have been affected.

The lack of toilets has also made life difficult for pregnant women, young families and those who work outside or travel. Lorry drivers, many of whom have spent long periods of time on the road during the lockdown, have complained they have been forced to go to the toilet in the back of their trucks.

 

[underbank]

How dos closing toilets (and therefore reduce handwashing facilities) help the situation?

Plenty of council loos were pretty dire anyway, i.e. no hot water (or no water in the taps at all), no soap, no sanitary method of hand drying (often the germ ridden roller towel that was barely changed from week to week), seldom cleaned, etc.

If councils open them, they become responsible for the upkeep, cleanliness, hygiene etc. In normal times the council could get away with claiming the "austerity" card for not looking after them, but in a pandemic, the council could well find itself heavily criticised or sued if there's no soap, no water, etc. I can just see all the outraged pictures on Twitter and Facebook of sinks with no soap, dirty toilets, etc. After all, there are enough people on SM criticising the councils for not weeding pavements and not cutting grass at the moment which the councils can get away with by claiming they've moved staff onto vulnerable food deliveries etc.

 

[High Dyke]

Councils have been closing public loos for decades. It's one of the first things to go when they get short of money. We lost our village loos back around 2005.

We're the same in a medium sized town. Both parks had toilets, as well as three other public toilets in the town centre - the bus station having an attendant on duty all through the day. The park ones are closed many years ago, citing vandalism as the main reason, but cost-cutting was a probable factor. Nowadays there is one set of public toilets, in the town centre, with an attendant; however there are no toilets at the bus station.

 

[ChrisC]

We're the same in a medium sized town. Both parks had toilets, as well as three other public toilets in the town centre - the bus station having an attendant on duty all through the day. The park ones are closed many years ago, citing vandalism as the main reason, but cost-cutting was a probable factor. Nowadays there is one set of public toilets, in the town centre, with an attendant; however there are no toilets at the bus station.

I think finding a toilet when travelling, or even on more local days out, has become an increasing problem in recent years. The current lockdown has just made the problem far worse.
If you are doing a long cross country type journey, not using motorways, it’s become quite a problem to find a toilet or one that’s actually open and in a fit state to use, especially early mornings or in the evenings.

With the closure of so many public toilets we are having to rely more and more on pubs, cafes and garden centres, but this is not possible in the current situation. Also when open, unlike in many continental areas, toilets in these places are often for patrons only.

 

[AM9]

I think finding a toilet when travelling, or even on more local days out, has become an increasing problem in recent years. The current lockdown has just made the problem far worse.
If you are doing a long cross country type journey, not using motorways, it’s become quite a problem to find a toilet or one that’s actually open and in a fit state to use, especially early mornings or in the evenings.

With the closure of so many public toilets we are having to rely more and more on pubs, cafes and garden centres, but this is not possible in the current situation. Also when open, unlike in many continental areas, toilets in these places are often for patrons only.

Yup, another casualty of the Thatcher policy of starving local authorities but expecting them to keep everything open at zero cost. The issue is, local authorities have more than enough things to cope with during the pandemic, such that public toilets are now way down the list. Those leaving their homes, which it must be assumed have whatever sanitary arrangement that their occupants need, is something that everybody needs to consider however much the desire to visit non-essential places where toilets may not be available. It is unfortuanate that some may have medical conditions that make it impractical, but they are still vectors for spreading the virus.

 

[Nicholas43]

The British Toilet Association's managing director is reported as believing that a massive (and expensive) re-design will be required: Midlands Express and Star

the British Toilet Association’s managing director Raymond Martin has been advising councils and companies on how to keep washrooms clean and safe amid a global pandemic.


In an interview with the Sunday Times, Mr Martin said potential solutions range from foot-operated flushes and self-closing seats to sensor-activated taps and soap dispensers.

 

[DannyMich2018]

With more people in town now recently it's bad public toilets are still closed and doesn't stop much to promote hygiene in these hard times. I did shopping at town other day, finishing in Sainburys and needed a No 2 but luckily they were opened in Sainburys.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

With more people in town now recently it's bad public toilets are still closed and doesn't stop much to promote hygiene in these hard times. I did shopping at town other day, finishing in Sainburys and needed a No 2 but luckily they were opened in Sainburys.

True, the larger supermarkets seem to be keeping theirs open, though on a rcent visit to Aldi I noted they'd closed their one public toilet with a notice saying it was for "customer safety reasons" or somesuch nonsnese.

 

[Mikey C]

I would have thought that urinals were less risky, on account of there being fewer surfaces to touch.

Agreed, the cubicles involve touching all sorts of things, door, lock, seat, toilet roll which will also be touched by other people

 

[underbank]

With the closure of so many public toilets we are having to rely more and more on pubs, cafes and garden centres, but this is not possible in the current situation. Also when open, unlike in many continental areas, toilets in these places are often for patrons only.

There's a seaside resort near me where the council closed most of the public loos and did some kind of "deal" encouraging local cafes etc to allow passers by to use their loos. Of course, seeing as the cafes are closed due to Covid, there's basically no provision now at all.

 

[underbank]

Yup, another casualty of the Thatcher policy of starving local authorities but expecting them to keep everything open at zero cost.

Most of ours were closed during Brown/Blair's tenure so it's not really appropriate to make cheap political digs.

 

[Mikey C]

Most of ours were closed during Brown/Blair's tenure so it's not really appropriate to make cheap political digs.

And a bit unfair to blame the current situation on someone who left office nearly THIRTY years ago

That makes me feel old

 

[AM9]

And a bit unfair to blame the current situation on someone who left office nearly THIRTY years ago

That makes me feel old

It's not political and I wouldn't take this thread off-topic by claiming so. In my experience in the '80s and early '90s in Portsmouth and Fareham, it was getting steadily worse. By the time i arrives at St Albans, things were broadly like they are now.

 

[Mikey C]

It's not political and I wouldn't take this thread off-topic by claiming so. In my experience in the '80s and early '90s in Portsmouth and Fareham, it was getting steadily worse. By the time i arrives at St Albans, things were broadly like they are now.

It is political as it implies that a long gone politician made permanent changes to society that can never be reversed

For a start we had 13 years of Labour during this period, and they could have devoted more money to local councils or to public toilet provision if they had wanted.