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Problems using "via" on ticketing engines

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mp01

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As hinted in a previous post, I'm wanting to buy a return from Chesterfield to Newport via Stockport over Christmas. It's a simple journey - one change (at Stockport).

I've tried various search engines and when asking for "via Stockport" they all give the same options - using Cross Country services via Birmingham. For interest I tried Chesterfield to Abergavenny via Stockport, and all it gave was the option to change at Birmingham and Hereford, even though this is slightly longer than via Stockport.

I suppose the philisophical question might be want I'm missing that "via" doesn't seem to work as the word suggests. The practical suggestion (other than buy separate tickets for each leg) is, how do I buy a Chesterfield to Newport return via Stockport (with seat reservations on the relevant trains)? Can I just not do this online?

Thanks for help.
 
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island

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I’m sure your local staffed station will be more than happy to issue this for you.
 

D6700

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If you wish/need to book online, I'd recommend the independent https://www.trainscanbecheaper.info/

Click on "Advanced Options" and you will be presented with a very useful journey planner - something sadly lacking from any of the UK TOC's, who are very clearly not interested in enabling people to specify the journey they want to make, much preferring to provide journey plans the computer assumes you might want.

You can specify up to three "via" locations - and also to "avoid" places. You can also include or exclude operators and means of transport.

In Germany, the national railway company manages to provide similar options (https://reiseauskunft.bahn.de//bin/query.exe/en), but in the UK, this is the only website I know of that provides the user with useful flexibility.
 

ashworth

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I’m not sure that Chesterfield to Newport is a valid route via Stockport, even though it’s an easy route with only one change. However, Sheffield or Dronfield to Newport via Stockport is valid and tickets can be purchased online.
 

30907

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According to www.brfares.com the only through fares are routed via Birmingham or XC only. NRE gives me an itinerary via Stockport but with split tickets.
 

D6700

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Indeed, having just had a play with the actual journey (albeit for a random date), I couldn't get anything from Chesterfield, but Sheffield presented no problem, which had me wondering if it wasn't a valid route, even though it is a sensible one.
 

mp01

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Thanks for replies so far. Perhaps this is where my naivety about what "via" means shows through. Surely whether it's a valid route or not, if I ask for a "via" or an "avoid" the system should naturally sort me out whatever works that's reasonable time-wise or price-wise and incorporates the "via" or "avoid", not ignore those if they're not down as a valid route in the system? Looks like it's going to be split tickets, which is fine.
 

yorkie

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As there are no fares for that flow, via that route, what is the "this" they would issue ?
If a passenger requests a journey via a route that is not permitted, a ticket office would be required to issue a combination of tickets for the journey. However it is unclear if there is any obligation for the cheapest fare to be offered.
I’m not sure that Chesterfield to Newport is a valid route via Stockport, even though it’s an easy route with only one change. However, Sheffield or Dronfield to Newport via Stockport is valid and tickets can be purchased online.
You are right. It isn't. This is because Rail Delivery Group believe that offering a wide range of routes to customers is complex. They have been reducing the available routes in order to make things simpler for passengers. The concept of "Route: Any Permitted" is considered to be a bad thing, and more and more routes are therefore being restricted in the manner that this one is. RDG have hoodwinked the DfT into thinking that this sort of thing is good for customers.
Thanks for replies so far. Perhaps this is where my naivety about what "via" means shows through. Surely whether it's a valid route or not, if I ask for a "via" or an "avoid" the system should naturally sort me out whatever works that's reasonable time-wise or price-wise and incorporates the "via" or "avoid", not ignore those if they're not down as a valid route in the system? Looks like it's going to be split tickets, which is fine.
The only booking engines that will do this are those that support "split ticketing" such as Trainsplit.com

Train companies have so far chosen not to sell combinations of tickets for one journey unless you conduct separate searches.
 

sheff1

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If a passenger requests a journey via a route that is not permitted, a ticket office would be required to issue a combination of tickets for the journey.

That is what I thought, but such a combination could be purchased via any number of rail ticketing websites/apps. The poster I quoted seemed to be implying that "your local staffed station" could issue something for the journey that it was not possible to purchase online and I was curious what that something was.
 

Starmill

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That is what I thought, but such a combination could be purchased via any number of rail ticketing websites/apps. The poster I quoted seemed to be implying that "your local staffed station" could issue something for the journey that it was not possible to purchase online and I was curious what that something was.

It's possible that a ticket office might choose to offer you a through ticket and an itinerary for a journey over routes that are sensible but would not normally be permitted - particularly in cases where engineering work changes timetables. It has happened. It's probably not very likely though. And I have got no idea if this is what was meant or not.
 

sheff1

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It's possible that a ticket office might choose to offer you a through ticket and an itinerary for a journey over routes that are sensible but would not normally be permitted - particularly in cases where engineering work changes timetables. It has happened. It's probably not very likely though. And I have got no idea if this is what was meant or not.

Interesting, but I tend to agree that it is probably unlikely that booking offices would often do that.

island
said they were sure that a staffed station would issue "this", i.e. a Chesterfield to Newport via Stockport ticket which, as it is not priced in the normal course of events, cannot be bought online and I wondered how the ticket office would do that. Perhaps they were actually meaning the split tickets referred to by yorkie but, as I said earlier, there is no need to visit a station to purchase those. In the absence of any further clarification, it seems split tickets is the only offer certain to be available.
 

DaiGog

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Fares from both Chesterfield and Sheffield are set by CrossCountry. From Sheffield they are routed 'Not via London' but from Chesterfield they are routed 'via Birmingham'. It is in XC's gift to amend the Chesterfield routeing so it matches Sheffield, so maybe you could write to them and ask them; but that said, Chesterfield prices are cheaper than Sheffield so either some adjustment would be required one way or the other, or a set of fares from Chesterfield on route 'Not London' would need to be added while retaining 'via Birmingham' at the lower price.

Obviously it won't help you this time, but if you intend to make the journey in future then it might be useful.
 

D6700

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I imagine the post by island was generic (as was my first), not realising the specific journey was actually a non-valid route, so required split tickets by default.

Many times over the years, I have been thwarted from booking fully valid journeys by artificial limitations imposed by UK TOC websites, none of which have comprehensive journey planners. I have little doubt the systems used in many ticket offices will offer more flexibility, as does the independent website I mentioned.
 

yorkie

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RDG are very keen to prevent passengers using reasonable routes such as this one on a through ticket, however you can purchase a combination of flexible fares for less than the through fare. This is because the rail industry is keen to charge fares at a higher rate to passengers making longer distance journeys than those making short distance journeys. It is perfectly valid to make a long distance journey using a combination of lower priced fares though.

  • Chesterfield-Wilmslow Off Peak Return (SVR)
  • Wilmslow-Shrewsbury Off Peak Return (SVR)
  • Shrewsbury-Cwmbran Off Peak Return (SVR)
  • Cwmbran-Newport 2 x Anytime Day Singles (SDS); one in each direction

The above combination will be sold in one transaction, with a through itinerary, on accredited ticket splitting websites, for a lower price than the through SVR.

This is designed to keep things "simple" for customers; having too many choices of routes available, such as the ability to travel via Stockport in this case, is seen as confusing and being "unnecessarily complex" RDG are reducing the routeing available for customers in order to "enhance" the customer experience by denying you the route you wish to take on a through fare.

(And if anyone thinks I am joking, I can assure you I am not!)
 

kieron

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What's the alternative if there's no through ticket?
I think you'll find the alternative to buying more than one ticket for your journey is called an All Line Rover. ;) There may be other tickets which cover the whole of the desired route, I don't know.

A few comments on this thread have got me wondering about something else. Was there a time when Chesterfield-Stockport-Shrewsbury-Newport was a valid route for a Chesterfield-Newport ticket? I know that the only fares for Chesterfield-Newport in the NMF64 list are "via Derby" and "AP Intercity" ones, but that's just one point in time.

As it's usually a good bit slower than going via Birmingham even now, I can see why it might not occur to someone at Arriva to create a ticket for the route.
 
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