• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Progress of delivery of cascaded/refurbished/PRM modified stock to TFW/Wales and Borders

Status
Not open for further replies.
B

Bikeman78

Established Member
Joined
26 Apr 2018
Messages
4,542
Cardiff123 said:
Why are they unsuitable? 158s have worked up there in the past so 23m stock is cleared to go up there
Click to expand...
158s went up to Bargoed and Rhymney quite a lot in 2004. They weren't great, they could not keep time. From next Monday I believe the official positon is that pair of Pacers will cover most trains on the Rhymney valley.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

B

Bikeman78

Established Member
Joined
26 Apr 2018
Messages
4,542
Cardiff123 said:
The poster of this info on WNXX says in a later post (not in anthony263's screenshot) that they are heading to Wales 'for use'.

We'll see. But I'm guessing if it's true they can be put straight into service (after any checks) with no crew training required?

I guess we also can assume that TfW now have the derogations granted to carry on running non-PRM compliant DMUs in service beyond 31/12, even though this hasn't been made public yet.
Click to expand...
When the 142s first ran on they valleys, they were mainly in the series 142080-95 with the new seats. However, swaps occurred from time to time and a random bus seated unit would turn up. Also 142002/6/10/69 came from Newton Heath back in 2004/5 and went into service very quickly, still in GMPTE livery with bus seats.
 
P

PHILIPE

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Nov 2011
Messages
13,472
Location
Caerphilly
Bikeman78 said:
158s went up to Bargoed and Rhymney quite a lot in 2004. They weren't great, they could not keep time. From next Monday I believe the official positon is that pair of Pacers will cover most trains on the Rhymney valley.
Click to expand...

158s had booked working but the doors are so so slow
 
P

PHILIPE

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Nov 2011
Messages
13,472
Location
Caerphilly
33017 said:
Unless something's changed in the last few hours, they're not going to TfW.
Click to expand...

Perhaps a rumour started by the same source some months ago that TFW would be receiving some 144s and lots of people believed it excitedly spread the fake news around
 
anamyd

anamyd

On Moderation
Joined
17 Aug 2018
Messages
3,011
tomos dafis said:
Another class 170 moved from Tyseley to Canton today, arrived at 12:39. Someone posted on the TFW 170 thread that it was 2-car 170 272, seen speeding through Worcestershire en route.
Click to expand...
thanks for that :) not a big deal that I "missed" that as I had already got video footage of its previous delivery to Canton before the whole Tyseley thing started. What I am gutted by is not being able to capture the 7-car formation of 170208, 170201 and 153320 on Friday which I was only able to see going through Central in person as I had lost my phone at the last minute and for some reason no other spotters / enthusiasts were around :'(
 
anamyd

anamyd

On Moderation
Joined
17 Aug 2018
Messages
3,011
tomos dafis said:
If I have followed deliveries correctly, TFW have now taken delivery of eight 170's , and a further 4 cascaded 153's are at Landore for work before entering service, plus one additional ex-GA 153 delivered to Canton. 769006 arrived very recently but 769008 left Canton for Castle Donington. Will there be enough stock to deliver the promised improvements, including more capacity, from the timetable change on 15/12/2019?
Having started this more general thread for delivery of additional/replacement stock for TFW -Wales and Borders I have received a message from a moderator asking users to please stay firmly "on topic" (see the thread heading) and avoid excessive "personal discussions" (I have asked for clarification just for myself of what constitutes "personal discussion" - please direct any queries or comments about this in the acceptable and appropriate way to the moderators - let's avoid straying off topic by posting these on here).
Click to expand...
yes, 170201/202/206/207/208/270/272/273 are now all available to TfW, and all the rest looks right to me. remember that 153325/329/333/361/369 had been delivered on April Fool's Day as well :D
 
anamyd

anamyd

On Moderation
Joined
17 Aug 2018
Messages
3,011
Cardiff123 said:
...I guess we also can assume that TfW now have the derogations granted to carry on running non-PRM compliant DMUs in service beyond 31/12, even though this hasn't been made public yet.
Click to expand...
This will become clearer and clearer on 15/12/19 and 1/1/20 itself!
 
anamyd

anamyd

On Moderation
Joined
17 Aug 2018
Messages
3,011
Cardiff123 said:
I guess we also can assume that TfW now have the derogations granted to carry on running non-PRM compliant DMUs in service beyond 31/12, even though this hasn't been made public yet.
Click to expand...
Just found this, Senedd Plenary on the 4/12/19 (clipped, see bolded and especially underlined text if reading) - https://www.senedd.tv/Meeting/Clip/...658fec3356?inPoint=00:00:16&outPoint=00:08:00

Hefin David AM said:

Will the Minister make a statement on the provision of rolling stock on the Rhymney to Cardiff rail line?


Ken Skates AM said:

Yes, of course. In the short term, Transport for Wales is proposing to utilise class 769 rolling stock on the Rhymney line until new rolling stock starts to be introduced in 2023, and this will then enable it to increase the service frequency further, as part of the metro transformation.


Hefin David AM said:

Following discussions with constituents about the use of the line and following the debate we had two weeks ago, I met with Transport for Wales officials last week to talk about some of the overcrowding issues and some of the problems with services. And we also talked about derogation from the Disability Discrimination Act 1995, and as a result of that, because Parliament isn't currently sitting, I've written to Grant Shapps—this letter here—to ask for fast derogation from the Act. Could the Minister provide us with an update on how that is going, but also can we get a definitive explanation now of how many more trains will be on the line next year and how capacity will be enhanced in the next two years? I think it's important we put that absolutely on the record and for clarity.


Ken Skates AM said:

Absolutely, and the Member is very right. I think his constituents deserve to know how many additional trains will be on that important railway line in the coming months and years. But, if I can just pick up on the very important point of the request for derogation on the persons of reduced mobility legislation requirements, it should be noted, Dirprwy Lywydd, that we are not alone. We understand that many other train operating companies, including Scot Rail, Great Western Railway, Northern, and East Midlands Trains are in a similar position, and they are understood to be seeking a dispensation to operate significant numbers of non-PRM-compliant trains into 2020. I am pleased to be able to inform Members that, as far as I'm concerned, all work has been completed satisfactorily by officials here and in London, and we now await the Secretary of State's approval as soon as the general election has been concluded, whoever that Secretary of State might be. I have to say though, Diprwy Lywydd, that it is our view that the decision needn't have been pushed back beyond 12 December and could have been made during the election period.

Turning to services on the Rhymney line, I am aware, so too are TfW, about concerns regarding capacity. I can inform the Member that Pacer trains will be focused as four-carriage trains on the majority of Rhymney line services from the 15 December timetable change, with the class 37 loco-hauled trains continuing to operate as the larger and, it has to be said, far more modern class 769s are introduced in 2020. Transport for Wales will be introducing nine class 769 units, which will be dedicated to the Rhymney line. These will each have four carriages and will therefore have a capacity of 558 per train. That compares to the total capacity of four Pacer carriages of 422 and to the total capacity of the loco-hauled trains of around 320.

Of course, in 2023, those new Stadler tri-mode fast, light inter-city and regional trains will be introduced on the network and on the Rhymney line. I can assure the Member that TfW are always reviewing projections for the number of customers utilising services, and they can act flexibly to ensure that capacity can be increased if demand requires it.


Mohammad Asghar AM said:

Further to Hefin's question, news that the provision of rolling stock to boost the capacity of Valleys lines has been delayed has left passengers frustrated and dismayed in the south Wales Valleys. Overcrowding is a serious problem, and passenger numbers on the Valleys lines are increasing 7 per cent year on year. Minister, can you update the Assembly when you expect Transport for Wales to put the new rolling stock? You've just mentioned additional ones by next year and 2023. I think it's getting too late for this sort of thing to improve, but what is the hindrance there of getting the rolling stock into service, and can you advise what discussion you have had with TfW with regard to easing the overcrowding that already exists in the south-east Wales Valleys lines and other parts? Thank you.


Ken Skates AM said:

Mohammad Asghar raises a point that has been regularly discussed in this Chamber, and it concerns the lack of action that was taken under the previous franchise agreement, which was agreed on the basis of zero passenger growth, and therefore there was a lack of trains available when we inherited the franchise—over which period, in the past 15 years, we've seen a considerable increase in passenger numbers. We were aware of the need to ensure that, when we took over the franchise, additional rolling stock was available, and that's why we placed an order for the class 769 units, which were due for introduction in May 2018. And as a result of the company's failure to deliver the 769s, we've had to seek that derogation from UK Government concerning PRM. I'm pleased to say that TfW has been working tirelessly to identify where it can get new rolling stock from—and replacement rolling stock—in order to ease capacity. And as I said to Hefin David, there will be a significant increase in capacity on the Rhymney line from next year. And as we move through to the introduction of those brand-new trains in 2023, we will see further increases in capacity across the network. From December of this year, we'll also see a significant increase, of more than 60 per cent, in the number of seats and services available on Sundays. This is a huge, huge step forward and ensures that the franchise is a true seven-day week service.


Delyth Jewell AM said:

Minister, passengers on the Rhymney line have been promised the 769s and increased capacity since May 2018, and they're still waiting. Now, I take your point about what you've said to Hefin David—that, when the 769s are introduced, there will be an increase in capacity. But you said that TfW are going to be acting flexibly about looking at the capacity of the new trains when they are replacing the 769s in 2023. Can you just confirm that the increased capacity that we'll see in 2023 is just an increased capacity from now, isn't it, and it's not an increased capacity—as things stand, from the 769s, there will be a decrease in capacity in 2023?


Ken Skates AM said:

I think there was some research carried out by a very able rail enthusiast. However, I'm not convinced that the data that was utilised was fully accurate. And I met just today, actually, with TfW to discuss this very issue again, and we agreed that there is an absolute need not just to increase capacity in the short term—in the next two years—but to then maintain that capacity, and, if necessary, to increase it still further, if passengers demand it. If there is a further increase in passenger demand, then TfW will be acting flexibly to meet the demand from constituents in that part of Wales.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
anamyd

anamyd

On Moderation
Joined
17 Aug 2018
Messages
3,011
oh OK! does anyone know about more Pacers going to Wales that will be for TfW as opposed to the ones that went to Newport Docks for scrapping at Sims...?
 
IamTrainsYT

IamTrainsYT

Member
Joined
8 Dec 2018
Messages
1,073
Location
Glossop
anamyd said:
oh OK! does anyone know about more Pacers going to Wales that will be for TfW as opposed to the ones that went to Newport Docks for scrapping at Sims...?
Click to expand...
All I have at the moment is it’s 5, 4 from newton Heath and one from heaton, possibly on the 15th after the new northern timetables and the numbers are 142012/142014/142019/142046/142049
 
anamyd

anamyd

On Moderation
Joined
17 Aug 2018
Messages
3,011
IamTrainsYT said:
All I have at the moment is it’s 5, 4 from newton Heath and one from heaton, possibly on the 15th after the new northern timetables and the numbers are 142012/142014/142019/142046/142049
Click to expand...
just to be clear, are these going to TfW, not a scrapyard...? if so, may I ask where you got that info from...?
 
S

Sion John

On Moderation
Joined
4 Jul 2018
Messages
167
Location
Llanelli
33017 said:
TfW are not getting any additional Pacers from Northern or anywhere else. They will have more than enough of their own for the number of diagrams required in the new timetable.
Click to expand...
Nope TfW is having 5 142s from nothern
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top