Progress of delivery of cascaded/refurbished/PRM modified stock to TFW/Wales and Borders

[Chris125]

Jan Chaudhry-van der Velde has been talking to Rail Business UK, sounds like the PRM 153s will be sticking around:

Welsh rolling stock strategy evolves as three-phase post-pandemic recovery envisaged

UK: TfW Rail has again revised its fleet strategy as it seeks to ensure passenger services can be improved despite the financial constraints caused by Covid-19, Managing Director Jan Chaudhry-van der Velde tells Rail Business UK.

www.railwaygazette.com

TfW’s fleet of 12 Class 170 DMUs, transferred from Greater Anglia in 2019-20, will now be sub-leased to East Midlands Railway until the end of that operator’s contract in what is expected to be a permanent move. Their release is being made possible by the acquisition of additional Mk IV loco-hauled sets from Arriva’s Grand Central business, changes in the deployment plan for the new CAF Class 197 fleet, and the purchase of eight Class 153 single-car DMUs which are to be refurbished with full TSI PRM accessibility modifications for use on the Swansea – Shrewsbury Heart of Wales line. Meanwhile, the incoming Class 197s will be used on routes in west Wales previously expected to be covered by the Class 170 sets.

 

[Anonymous10]

Jan Chaudhry-van der Velde has been talking to Rail Business UK, sounds like the PRM 153s will be sticking around:

Welsh rolling stock strategy evolves as three-phase post-pandemic recovery envisaged

UK: TfW Rail has again revised its fleet strategy as it seeks to ensure passenger services can be improved despite the financial constraints caused by Covid-19, Managing Director Jan Chaudhry-van der Velde tells Rail Business UK.

www.railwaygazette.com

yet only 1 week ago we had several people adamant pembroke dock would not see the 197s as its service so what does this all mean it is getting them??

 

[craigybagel]

yet only 1 week ago we had several people adamant pembroke dock would not see the 197s as its service so what does this all mean it is getting them??

Good question. The plans being discussed internally last week weren't compatible with 197s in West Wales.

It'll be interesting to see what we actually end up with.

 

[Anonymous10]

Good question. The plans being discussed internally last week weren't compatible with 197s in West Wales.

It'll be interesting to see what we actually end up with.

i mean it makes sense it will either be a pair of 153s shuttling with maybe a scotrail type luggage 153 or a 197 the 197 for no other reason but one traction type in west wales but i look forward to finding out

if there is a appropriate thread could someone please link it or create a new one if not please

 

[py_megapixel]

i mean it makes sense it will either be a pair of 153s shuttling with maybe a scotrail type luggage 153 or a 197 the 197 for no other reason but one traction type in west wales but i look forward to finding out

Civities are not even remotely compatible with 153s...

 

[Envoy]

This is bad news indeed for the Heart of Wales. So instead of getting some nice air conditioned 170’s with big windows they are going to remain stuck with the 153’s.

 

[JakeMurphy]

Jan Chaudhry-van der Velde has been talking to Rail Business UK, sounds like the PRM 153s will be sticking around:

Welsh rolling stock strategy evolves as three-phase post-pandemic recovery envisaged

UK: TfW Rail has again revised its fleet strategy as it seeks to ensure passenger services can be improved despite the financial constraints caused by Covid-19, Managing Director Jan Chaudhry-van der Velde tells Rail Business UK.

www.railwaygazette.com

Where have the other 153’s come from?

 

[Anonymous10]

Where have the other 153’s come from?

likely will be the 153s tfw already have prm compliant

Civities are not even remotely compatible with 153s...

i meant one or the other ie either the 153 combo or a 197

 

[krus_aragon]

if there is a appropriate thread could someone please link it or create a new one if not please

There's some post on speculation following the acquisition of the additional Mark IV stock here, which includes some consideration of West Wales possibilities:

https://railforums.co.uk/threads/how-might-tfw-adapt-their-rolling-stock-plans-post-covid-now-that-theyre-acquiring-additional-mkiv-rakes.218426/

Good question. The plans being discussed internally last week weren't compatible with 197s in West Wales.

Do you mean to include Milford-Swansea-Manchester services in that statement, or just the local services?

 

[Anonymous10]

There's some post on speculation following the acquisition of the additional Mark IV stock here, which includes some consideration of West Wales possibilities:

https://railforums.co.uk/threads/how-might-tfw-adapt-their-rolling-stock-plans-post-covid-now-that-theyre-acquiring-additional-mkiv-rakes.218426/

Do you mean to include Milford-Swansea-Manchester services in that statement, or just the local services?

just locals im guessing as the Milford to pic services are franchise commitments and so would likely run on either a mk4 or a 197 i should think

 

[iantherev]

just locals im guessing as the Milford to pic services are franchise commitments and so would likely run on either a mk4 or a 197 i should think

TfW have said that Mk IVs are only intended to run as far as Swansea.

 

[craigybagel]

https://railforums.co.uk/threads/how-might-tfw-adapt-their-rolling-stock-plans-post-covid-now-that-theyre-acquiring-additional-mkiv-rakes.218426/

Do you mean to include Milford-Swansea-Manchester services in that statement, or just the local services?

Just the locals, the services originally planned for 170s. We've not been told of any changes to the plans for 197s on Manchester - Milford, though obviously the fact that some Manchester services will now be MKIV operated and only run as far as Swansea will mean some of those services may need tweaking.

 

[krus_aragon]

Just the locals, the services originally planned for 170s. We've not been told of any changes to the plans for 197s on Manchester - Milford, though obviously the fact that some Manchester services will now be MKIV operated and only run as far as Swansea will mean some of those services may need tweaking.

Thanks for the clarification. I just wanted to make sure your statement wasn't excessively profound!

 

[PHILIPE]

Where have the other 153’s come from?

Nowhere yet

 

[JakeMurphy]

Nowhere yet

Do you reckon there’s a possibility that northern 153’s could be an option

 

[PHILIPE]

Do you reckon there’s a possibility that northern 153’s could be an option

No idea. You'll have to do what I have to do which is wait and see

 

[Wyrleybart]

Do you reckon there’s a possibility that northern 153’s could be an option

Has to be a possibility.
How many class 153s are now in store ? I believe there are ex EMR and ex Northern ones at either Nemesis Burton and / or Papworths at Ely. We need some really kind person to create a thread similar to the Pacer disposals.

 

[Caaardiff]

I'm not able to read the full article, but I'm guessing there's no date set yet for the 170s to leave and they'll be around until the Flirts are delivered?
If that is the case then I can't see why more 153s are required. There's currently enough PRM ones in the fleet to cover the HOWL and even Pembroke line, and a great deal of money is being spent on the PRM lite mods that don't include the toilet. Surely it would make more sense to do the toilet mods on the ones currently being done instead and keep them, rather than taking on more clapped out bangers. TfW have spent enough time and money fixing up the current 153s, without having to take on more rejects.

Unless there's a worry that the 769 performance isn't going to improve. The mk4 stock isn't planned to be ramped up until the end if the year, when the 197s will start to be introduced. So taking into account all the timings for the additional 153s doesn't really make sense.

Does the article give more detail than what's been posted above?

 

[PHILIPE]

Has to be a possibility.
How many class 153s are now in store ? I believe there are ex EMR and ex Northern ones at either Nemesis Burton and / or Papworths at Ely. We need some really kind person to create a thread similar to the Pacer disposals.

There is one here:-

www.railforums.co.uk/threads/class-153-updates.211889/page-6

 

[craigybagel]

I'm not able to read the full article, but I'm guessing there's no date set yet for the 170s to leave and they'll be around until the Flirts are delivered?
If that is the case then I can't see why more 153s are required. There's currently enough PRM ones in the fleet to cover the HOWL and even Pembroke line, and a great deal of money is being spent on the PRM lite mods that don't include the toilet. Surely it would make more sense to do the toilet mods on the ones currently being done instead and keep them, rather than taking on more clapped out bangers. TfW have spent enough time and money fixing up the current 153s, without having to take on more rejects.

Unless there's a worry that the 769 performance isn't going to improve. The mk4 stock isn't planned to be ramped up until the end if the year, when the 197s will start to be introduced. So taking into account all the timings for the additional 153s doesn't really make sense.

Does the article give more detail than what's been posted above?

I've read the full article and there aren't really any exact details on timings.

I too am rather confused by this speculation about TfW obtaining extra 153s, when they already have more PRM compliant units than what is mentioned in the article. Those units were meant to be leaving in a few years anyway under the original plans - it seems that now instead TfW have decided to hold on to a few for the longer term..

 

[Watershed]

371 yes. Couple more sign 370 but that’s because more are on permanent earlies than perm lates. Well deduced, I’m impressed.

It can't help that they involve going to Birmingham one way and coming back the other (though I guess route knowledge Shrewsbury-Birmingham is probably OK-ish).

 

[Wyrleybart]

There is one here:-

www.railforums.co.uk/threads/class-153-updates.211889/page-6

Thanks for that Philipe

 

[37424]

It seems straight forward to me 8 PRM compliant 153's for the Heart of Wales line retained plus the extra MK4 sets freeing up 197's to effectively replace the 170's, interesting choice especially as the 153's which seem best suited to the scrap yard.

 

[Mollman]

It seems straight forward to me 8 PRM compliant 153's for the Heart of Wales line retained plus the extra MK4 sets freeing up 197's to effectively replace the 170's, interesting choice especially as the 153's which seem best suited to the scrap yard.

Wouldn't surprise me if the 153s are just an interim solution whilst they assess what will be available and cleared for the HoW in a few years time with a view to 'alternative' traction.

 

[Cardiff123]

I read the article as saying that the 153s that TfW acquired at the end of last year, that are now going through PRM-light mods without toilets, are the ones that are now being kept long term. This was also reported in Modern Railways 6-7 months ago.
But there is 9 of those, not 8.
This would give TfW a long term fleet of 22 153s, 13 full PRM with toilets, 9 PRM without toilets.

 

[St. Paddy]

I read the article as saying that the 153s that TfW acquired at the end of last year, that are now going through PRM-light mods without toilets, are the ones that are now being kept long term. This was also reported in Modern Railways 6-7 months ago.
But there is 9 of those, not 8.
This would give TfW a long term fleet of 22 153s, 13 full PRM with toilets, 9 PRM without toilets.

The thing that seems to have changed since the Modern Railways article is that TFW have now bought all the Angel Trains 153s it runs outright including the 4 153/9s that were due to returned once the PRM lite program was completed. These 4 are now to be given a full PRM refurbishment. TFW have also bought 153374 which is being used for spares.

 

[Caaardiff]

I read the article as saying that the 153s that TfW acquired at the end of last year, that are now going through PRM-light mods without toilets, are the ones that are now being kept long term. This was also reported in Modern Railways 6-7 months ago.
But there is 9 of those, not 8.
This would give TfW a long term fleet of 22 153s, 13 full PRM with toilets, 9 PRM without toilets.

Just for clarity. My lists may be out of date, but from what I have TfW currently have 13 PRM 153's and 13 non-prm 153's. Out of the non-prm ones only 153906 has had PRM lite work completed. So 26 units in total. Are the 4 latest ones still only temporary to cover 769 issues? These being 153918, 153968, 153972 and 153982.

and the purchase of eight Class 153 single-car DMUs which are to be refurbished with full TSI PRM accessibility modifications for use on the Swansea – Shrewsbury Heart of Wales line.

This is the line that doesn't make sense. Are they only buying 8 of the remaining 9 (or 13) non-prm units? Why would they not keep and purchase the current PRM 153's instead of taking on more and having to spend on PRM mods. Also, why buy them and not continue to lease? Unless they have been given a deal they couldn't refuse.
What possible use could TfW have with 21 153's once the new fleet start arriving? The Pembroke Dock line would need 4 and the HOWL 3, maybe 4 if there's any intention of increasing services. I'm guessing the current PRM 153 fleet that is leased will be returned and they will retain the 8 latest editions as the on going 8 in the fleet to cover West Wales and HOWL. Given their reliability and occasional lone working, it will make failures a bit more of a nightmare.

 

[ABB125]

Just for clarity. My lists may be out of date, but from what I have TfW currently have 13 PRM 153's and 13 non-prm 153's. Out of the non-prm ones only 153906 has had PRM lite work completed. So 26 units in total. Are the 4 latest ones still only temporary to cover 769 issues? These being 153918, 153968, 153972 and 153982.



This is the line that doesn't make sense. Are they only buying 8 of the remaining 9 (or 13) non-prm units? Why would they not keep and purchase the current PRM 153's instead of taking on more and having to spend on PRM mods. Also, why buy them and not continue to lease? Unless they have been given a deal they couldn't refuse.
What possible use could TfW have with 21 153's once the new fleet start arriving? The Pembroke Dock line would need 4 and the HOWL 3, maybe 4 if there's any intention of increasing services. I'm guessing the current PRM 153 fleet that is leased will be returned and they will retain the 8 latest editions as the on going 8 in the fleet to cover West Wales and HOWL. Given their reliability and occasional lone working, it will make failures a bit more of a nightmare.

Maybe they're planning to double-up the HoW services, then leave Pembroke Dock to something else? Besides, I wouldn't have thought a single class 153 would be sufficient for Pembroke, especially in summer!

 

[Caaardiff]

Maybe they're planning to double-up the HoW services, then leave Pembroke Dock to something else? Besides, I wouldn't have thought a single class 153 would be sufficient for Pembroke, especially in summer!

Potentially, but there's not often you need more than 1 carriage.
Also the Pembroke Dock is only 2 diagrams, so the 4 would be 2 carriage sets working each. If they are keeping 8, they might as well keep more to boost capacity

 

[sefyllian]

Wasn’t there talk of TfW borrowing one of Scotland’s bike-carrying 153s, to test it out?

I wonder if they’re thinking of making some of their own. If you doubled up the units – a fully PRM 153 coupled to a PRM-lite 153 with the toilet removed but extra bike space instead – maybe they’d be a good fit for Heart of Wales and parts of west Wales, especially in summer.