Progress of delivery of cascaded/refurbished/PRM modified stock to TFW/Wales and Borders

[PHILIPE]

2 people said TfW are having them to me

They believed the rumour. 33017's information is a reliable source.

 

[Apedlar12]

2 people said TfW are having them to me

I will believe it when I see it

 

[Sion John]

I will believe it when I see it

Me too

 

[Brissle Girl]

Let’s look at this analytically, given the numbers. TfW currently has 30 pacers(?) and is saying that they will all be concentrated on the Rhymney to Penarth route, in pairs, from next week. 30 should more than cover the number of diagrams required, by quite some margin. So unless some Pacers end up staying on the other branches, I don’t see the need for any more.

And if they are going to work other lines then TfW has done a very bad job in managing expectations, which if they have concrete plans to bring in more pacers, is inconceivable. Remember, the immediate problem TfW has is the non delivery of the 769s, which is not a problem of its making, so absolutely no reason to say anything other than to tell it as it is.

Where are the extra units coming from - well despite all the speculation about where they were going to be stored, and if they would be here in time, it looks as though there will be sufficient 170s available to release enough 150s to run the services expected (not forgetting the odd 153 or two as well, PRM compliant or not). And don’t forget, a 150 has more capacity than a pacer, so it’s not a 1 for 1 swap.

So with 6 days to go, the tension mounts. Look forward to to hearing on Monday how things are going, as that’s what’s passengers are really interested in, and they are who the railway is here to serve at the end of the day.

 

[anamyd]

TfW currently has 30 pacers(?)

30 Pacers with TfW is correct (15 142s and 15 143s).

 

[PHILIPE]

The WNXX Poster now says it will now be only 3 of the 5 x 142s coming off lease will be going to Canton to use for spare parts.

 

[anamyd]

The WNXX Poster now says it will now be only 3 of the 5 x 142s coming off lease will be going to Canton to use for spare parts.

If that's true, that makes sense. Apparently the manufacturer(s) of Pacer spares had wound down production because they thought that the units wouldn't be in operation into 2020. If anyone could let me know which 3 142s are going to be the TfW parts Pacers, I'd be very grateful

 

[PHILIPE]

TFW have posted on their Journey Check details of non PRM stock and sent out the rules and have further stated that details regarding train services involved will be broadcast later so "Watch this Space"

 

[anamyd]

TFW have posted on their Journey Check details of non PRM stock and sent out the rules and have further stated that details regarding train services involved will be broadcast later so "Watch this Space"

Thanks for that Will have a look

 

[anamyd]

TFW have posted on their Journey Check details of non PRM stock and sent out the rules and have further stated that details regarding train services involved will be broadcast later so "Watch this Space"

TfW Rail said:

Update on our Locomotive-Hauled Coach Engine and four coaches

Please be aware that our Locomotive-Hauled Coach Engine and four coaches that operate from Holyhead to Cardiff and Manchester, do not feature fully accessible facilities, including toilets. We apologise for this inconvenience and are doing all we can to improve this situation. Details of the services impacted by this issue will soon be available here: https://tfwrail.wales/accessible-travel/train-accessibility

Update on our Class 142 and 143 Trains

Please be aware that our Class 142 and 143 trains that operate on the Cardiff Valleys network and local services in South Wales, do not feature fully accessible facilities, including toilets. We apologise for this inconvenience and are doing all we can to improve this situation. Details of the services impacted by this issue will soon be available here: https://tfwrail.wales/accessible-travel/train-accessibility

Here's the text mentioned

 

[anamyd]

TfW Rail said:

Train Accessibility

New trains and a major programme of refurbishment will result in increased on-board accessibility for our customers.

Please be aware that some types of trains that do not feature fully accessible facilities, including toilets, are operating on some routes. We apologise for this inconvenience and are doing all we can to improve this situation. Details of the routes and times of services impacted by this issue will be published on this website soon.

In the meantime, you can check our on-board facilities in our Making Rail Accessible leaflet or see below.

Class 142 Trains

These two-carriage diesel trains operate on the Cardiff Valleys network and local services in South Wales. There are 15 of these in the fleet. These trains have one on-board standard toilet but no accessible toilets. They have two wheelchair spaces, on-board ramps, a public address system, fold-down seats, and push-button doors. They were built between 1985-1987. These trains will be removed from service in 2020.

Class 143 Trains

These two-carriage diesel trains operate on the Cardiff Valleys network and local services in South Wales. There are 15 of these in the fleet. These trains have one on-board standard toilet but no accessible toilets. They have two wheelchair spaces, on-board ramps, a public address system, fold-down seats and push button doors. They were built between 1985-1986. These trains will be removed from service in 2020.

Class 150 Trains

These two-carriage diesel trains operate on the Cardiff Valleys network and local services in South Wales. There are 36 of these in the fleet. They have two wheelchair spaces, on-board ramps, a public address system and push button doors. These trains are being fitted with one accessible toilet per train and passenger information screens. So far, we have modified 20 of these trains and all will be modified by Summer 2020. They were built in 1987.

Class 153 Trains

These single-carriage diesel trains operate on the Heart of Wales, West Wales, Conwy Valley, City Line and Cardiff Bay routes. There are 22 of these in the fleet. They have one wheelchair space, onboard ramps, a public address system and push button doors. 13 of these trains are being fitted with one accessible toilet per train and passenger information screens. So far, we have modified 4 of these trains and all will be modified by Summer 2020. The 9 trains that are not being modified will be replaced by new trains in 2020. They were built in 1987.

Class 158 Trains

These two-carriage diesel trains operate long distance services across the network. There are 24 of these in the fleet. These trains have two on-board standard toilets. Although there is one accessible toilet on-board, the maximum door width is 580mm. There are two wheelchair spaces, on-board ramps, a public and automatic address system, baby change facilities and push button doors. They were built between 1989-1992.

Class 170 Trains

These two or three carriage diesel trains operate long-distance services across the network. There are 12 of these in the fleet. These trains have one accessible toilet. There are two wheelchair spaces, on-board ramps, a public and automatic address system, baby change facilities and push-button doors. They were built between 1999-2001.

Class 175 Trains

These two or three carriage diesel trains operate long distance services across the network. There are 27 of these in the fleet. These trains have two on-board standard toilets and one accessible toilet. There are two wheelchair spaces, on-board ramps, a public and automatic address system, baby change facilities and push button doors. They were built between 1999-2001.

Locomotive-Hauled Coach Engine and four coaches

These operate from Holyhead to Cardiff and Manchester in both directions. There are 2 of these in the fleet. These trains have on-board ramps and a public address and automatic address system.

These trains have four on-board standard toilets but no accessible toilets.

There is wheelchair space in standard class only. Doors to the train are not power-operated and have to be opened manually from the door handle on the outside of the train. There is a restaurant car on-board but this does not have a suitable wheelchair space.

They were built between 1989-1992. As part of our commitment to accessibility, these trains will be replaced by new trains by May 2020. These trains will meet all legal accessibility requirements

And this, with the usual incorrect build dates (such as "1999-2001" for the 170/2s - the 2-cars were built in 2002 and the 3-cars were built in 1999. Also 1989-1992 was the whole of Class 158; TfW's 158s were built in 1990-1991). 22 153s - huh?! Also, only 2 loco-hauled sets are mentioned for some reason. Apparently TfW have done PRM mods themselves, so they totally weren't done by workshops in England (!)

 

[Sion John]

TFW have posted on their Journey Check details of non PRM stock and sent out the rules and have further stated that details regarding train services involved will be broadcast later so "Watch this Space"

I see it too

 

[anamyd]

I see it too

Especially as I copied the text right into this thread!

 

[hobbm013]

And this, with the usual incorrect build dates (such as "1999-2001" for the 170/2s - the 2-cars were built in 2002 and the 3-cars were built in 1999. Also 1989-1992 was the whole of Class 158; TfW's 158s were built in 1990-1991). 22 153s - huh?! Also, only 2 loco-hauled sets are mentioned for some reason. Apparently TfW have done PRM mods themselves, so they totally weren't done by workshops in England (!)

Because there are only 2 Mk3 rakes at the moment? Cardiff Holyhead set and then Manchester set. They’re not compliant, as the post suggests

 

[Sion John]

Especially as I copied the text right into this thread!

i mean i seen it on TfW journey check too

 

[hobbm013]

Also 13 TFW 153s, 5 GA ones, plus the rumoured ones from the West Midlands would give about 22

 

[Brissle Girl]

Also 1989-1992 was the whole of Class 158; TfW's 158s were built in 1990-1991).

Do you really expect them to have researched build dates down to the unit. What difference does it make? The class was built between the dates quoted. This information isn’t for spotters but for the general public, who will probably be mildly interested at best to know that the type of train is approximately 30 years old.

 

[Sion John]

Also 13 TFW 153s, 5 GA ones, plus the rumoured ones from the West Midlands would give about 22

Yeah nice. TfW are wrong on jouney check they said we have 8 153s

 

[anamyd]

Because there are only 2 Mk3 rakes at the moment? Cardiff Holyhead set and then Manchester set. They’re not compliant, as the post suggests

It doesn't say Mk3, it just says loco-hauled and Cardiff / Holyhead / Manchester. I'm guessing the Mk2s on the rush-hour Cardiff-Rhymneys aren't mentioned because they're hired rather than leased, though I can't see how that's a valid reason.

 

[Sion John]

Because there are only 2 Mk3 rakes at the moment? Cardiff Holyhead set and then Manchester set. They’re not compliant, as the post suggests

There not mk2s there mk3s

 

[hobbm013]

It doesn't say Mk3, it just says loco-hauled and Cardiff / Holyhead / Manchester. I'm guessing the Mk2s on the rush-hour Cardiff-Rhymneys aren't mentioned because they're hired rather than leased, though I can't see how that's a valid reason.

Exactly, and as MK3s are used on these routes it’s obvious it was referring to these and not the Rhymney Mk2s

 

[anamyd]

Do you really expect them to have researched build dates down to the unit. What difference does it make? The class was built between the dates quoted. This information isn’t for spotters but for the general public, who will probably be mildly interested at best to know that the type of train is approximately 30 years old.

Not down to the unit, but down to their allocation. The TfW 158s are 1990-1991 originally from Arriva TrainCare's 2011-2012 refurbishment document but since copied to Wikipedia. It almost seems like they made more effort to get the incorrect information.

It probably doesn't make much of a difference though, and you make a fair point.

 

[Sion John]

Exactly, and as MK3s are used on these routes it’s obvious it was referring to these and not the Rhymney Mk2s

Yeah i think hobb means that too

 

[anamyd]

Exactly, and as MK3s are used on these routes it’s obvious it was referring to these and not the Rhymney Mk2s

Obviously it wasn't obvious. The Mk2s aren't mentioned at all, and that's what I'm getting at.

 

[anamyd]

There not mk2s there mk3s

Cardiff/Holyhead/Manchester has Mk3s; Cardiff/Rhymney has has Mk2s. Only the Mk3s are mentioned (implicitly); the Mk2s aren't but I'm not sure why not...?

 

[Mrs. Fortescue]

And this, with the usual incorrect build dates (such as "1999-2001" for the 170/2s - the 2-cars were built in 2002 and the 3-cars were built in 1999. Also 1989-1992 was the whole of Class 158; TfW's 158s were built in 1990-1991). 22 153s - huh?! Also, only 2 loco-hauled sets are mentioned for some reason. Apparently TfW have done PRM mods themselves, so they totally weren't done by workshops in England (!)

Honestly, of all the things to start whinging about...

they’re keeping the general public informed, far more than ATW did - I think that’s a positive. The general public don’t care if the 158s were built in 1991 or 1992...

 

[anamyd]

Yeah i think hobb means that too

I find that people often mean what they say

 

[anamyd]

Honestly, of all the things to start whinging about...

they’re keeping the general public informed, far more than ATW did - I think that’s a positive. The general public don’t care if the 158s were built in 1991 or 1992...

I'm not starting to whinge, actually.

You do make a good point that TfW are providing more information than ATW, but I think that it should be correct, because some people do "care".

 

[Sion John]

Honestly, of all the things to start whinging about...

they’re keeping the general public informed, far more than ATW did - I think that’s a positive. The general public don’t care if the 158s were built in 1991 or 1992...

158s was built from 1989

 

[anamyd]

Yeah nice. TfW are wrong on jouney check they said we have 8 153s

On the accessibility page it says that there are 22 153s in the fleet.