Progress on Avanti West Coast's 805/807s Hitachi AT300 sets

[Hey 3]

Is there any progress on those trains mentioned in the title?

 

[hexagon789]

Is there any progress on those trains mentioned in the title?

The 807s are under construction, not sure about the 805s but I'd imagine construction has commenced on those also

 

[Pete_uk]

You'll have to pardon the question, but what are the differences between the two different classes?

Is one straight 'leccy and the other bi mode?

 

[Hey 3]

You'll have to pardon the question, but what are the differences between the two different classes?

Is one straight 'leccy and the other bi mode?

The 805's are bi-mode, the 807's are electric only.

 

[steeevooo]

I believe that 805's are fixed 5-cars and 807's fixed 7-cars too

 

[hexagon789]

You'll have to pardon the question, but what are the differences between the two different classes?

Is one straight 'leccy and the other bi mode?

The 805s are a fleet of thirteen 5-car bi-mode to replace the 221s on Euston-North Wales & Shrewsbury

The 807s are a fleet of ten 7-car straight electrics for Euston-Birmingham/Liverpool/Blackpool

Both fleets replace the Class 221s

 

[Mollman]

https://www.business-live.co.uk/economic-development/avanti-west-coasts-new-train-19969359

Avanti West Coast's new train fleet for London, the Midlands, North Wales, and Liverpool taking shape​

New welding and painting facilities will be used to build the next generation of intercity trains for Avanti West Coast and East Midlands Railway

Hitachi Rail's new intercity trains for Avanti West Coast, shown at Birmingham New Street Station (Image: Unknown)

Work has commenced on Avanti West Coast’s fleet of new trains which will serve customers along the West Coast Main Line including London, the Midlands, North Wales, Liverpool and Lancashire.
New welding and painting facilities will be used to build the next generation of intercity trains for Avanti West Coast and East Midlands Railway.

Around 40 staff including newly graduated welders and painters will be completing the high-tech aluminium carriage shells, which are a signature of Hitachi’s intercity fleets.
The new fleet will comprise of 10 Class 807 seven carriage electric trains and 13 Class 805 five carriage bi-mode trains, the latter due to replace the current diesel Voyager trains in 2022 and deliver a 61% reduction in carbon emissions.

Work has commenced on Avanti West Coast’s fleet of new trains which will serve customers along the West Coast Main Line including London, the Midlands, North Wales, Liverpool and Lancashire. (Image: RICHARD LEE PHOTOGRAPHY)
The work being undertaken at the factory is part of Hitachi Rail’s investment at Newton Aycliffe in the North East – which now totals £110million.
Transport Secretary, Grant Shapps, said: “It is fitting that Hitachi Rail are building the next generation of intercity trains in County Durham, a place with a proud and illustrious railway heritage."

​

Phil Whittingham, Managing Director at Avanti West Coast said: “We’re proud to be partnering with Hitachi Rail, and it’s UK supply chain, to build a fleet of new trains that will transform the travelling experience for our customers on the West Coast Main Line.
138212091369

Work has commenced on Avanti West Coast’s fleet of new trains which will serve customers along the West Coast Main Line including London, the Midlands, North Wales, Liverpool and Lancashire. (Image: RICHARD LEE PHOTOGRAPHY)
"The investment is a key part of our exciting plans to raise the bar for the UK rail industry, and will deliver a significant reduction in carbon emissions.”

 

[hexagon789]

https://www.business-live.co.uk/economic-development/avanti-west-coasts-new-train-19969359

Doesn't quite specify exactly what's being built - as in 805, 807 or both.

 

[jonesy3001]

Thought the 800s were not cleared on the WCML.

 

[hexagon789]

Thought the 800s were not cleared on the WCML.

They may not be cleared in the sense that the paperwork has never been processed to allow them, they don't run on the WCML at the moment so there's not really a need. Obviously the 805 and 807 will be running on the WCML so the trainset dimensions must be alright clearance-wise

 

[Scotrail88]

The 805s are a fleet of thirteen 5-car bi-mode to replace the 221s on Euston-North Wales & Shrewsbury

The 807s are a fleet of ten 7-car straight electrics for Euston-Birmingham/Liverpool/Blackpool

Both fleets replace the Class 221s

Does that mean that 2 x 5 cars can’t run together?

 

[Bletchleyite]

They may not be cleared in the sense that the paperwork has never been processed to allow them, they don't run on the WCML at the moment so there's not really a need. Obviously the 805 and 807 will be running on the WCML so the trainset dimensions must be alright clearance-wise

They're only 1m longer than Pendolino end vehicles and are I think narrower, so I doubt it will be difficult.

 

[hexagon789]

Does that mean that 2 x 5 cars can’t run together?

Does what mean two 5-cars can't run together?

They're only 1m longer than Pendolino end vehicles and are I think narrower, so I doubt it will be difficult.

Exactly, I didn't really understand the comment that 800s couldn't run on the WCML in any other sense than the paperwork to permit it not being run

 

[Bletchleyite]

Does what mean two 5-cars can't run together?

I understand they will be operated the same as the Voyagers, i.e. a pair to Chester then a single set on to Holyhead.

 

[hexagon789]

I understand they will be operated the same as the Voyagers, i.e. a pair to Chester then a single set on to Holyhead.

Sorry I was replying to the previous comment that asked me why, I know they can and will run as two 5s.

 

[Scotrail88]

Sorry I was replying to the previous comment that asked me why, I know they can and will run as two 5s.

Thanks - was the ‘fixed’ 5 car that I was questioning.
Multi with splitting makes sense

 

[hexagon789]

Thanks - was the ‘fixed’ 5 car that I was questioning.
Multi with splitting makes sense

Oh I see, you meant can they run two 5-cars together like GWR and LNER do?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Oh I see, you meant can they run two 5-cars together like GWR and LNER do?

Yep, exactly the same as the current Voyager operations, it's just a straight swap.

 

[Geeves]

800s are cleared on the northern section of the WCML from at least Golborne Jc all the way to Scotland, so half the job is done.

 

[hexagon789]

Yep, exactly the same as the current Voyager operations, it's just a straight swap.

I'll be interested to see the first/standard split on these, given that for a while Virgin operated that bizarre Standard Class as First Class scheme on North Wales services. Given they won't be doing Anglo-Scottish work perhaps a greater % first class.

800s are cleared on the northern section of the WCML from at least Golborne Jc all the way to Scotland, so half the job is done.

So it really is just a paper exercise for the most part

 

[Hey 3]

The 805's are intended to replace the voyagers on routes to Scotland(which is already wired, to stop them running under the wires for most/all of the journey), to Chester and North Wales. The 807's will also replace the Voyagers(to Scotland only) and run alongside the Pendolino's.

 

[James Kevill]

The 805's are intended to replace the voyagers on routes to Scotland(which is already wired, to stop them running under the wires for most/all of the journey), to Chester and North Wales. The 807's will also replace the Voyagers(to Scotland only) and run alongside the Pendolino's.

I thought the Class 805s and 807s are going to be used on the London Euston to Chester, North Wales, Shrewsbury, Birmingham, Liverpool and Blackpool only.

 

[Hey 3]

I thought the Class 805s and 807s are going to be used on the London Euston to Chester, North Wales, Shrewsbury, Birmingham, Liverpool and Blackpool.

807's are electric only, 805's are bi-mode.

 

[James Kevill]

807's are electric only, 805's are bi-mode.

Right. Class 805s are Bi-Mode trains and will be used on the London Euston to Chester, North Wales and Shrewsbury services. And Class 807s are Electric trains and will be used on the London Euston to Birmingham New Street, Liverpool Lime Street and Blackpool North services.

 

[route101]

Yes, thought the new 800s will not operate north of Preston. I will imagine one day they may operate a service to Scotland.

 

[Hey 3]

Yes, thought the new 800s will not operate north of Preston. I will imagine one day they may operate a service to Scotland.

I did say they are not 800's.......

 

[swt_passenger]

I did say they are not 800's.......

I expect he meant “800 series”...

 

[route101]

I did say they are not 800's.......

I meant 800 series, I know there is specific classes like 802s or 803s!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The 805's are intended to replace the voyagers on routes to Scotland(which is already wired, to stop them running under the wires for most/all of the journey), to Chester and North Wales. The 807's will also replace the Voyagers(to Scotland only) and run alongside the Pendolino's.

There will be some shuffle round of diagrams that will put 390s on all Scotland services, with 807s working south of Preston/Liverpool and 805s on off-wire services.
Then there's the vexed question of whether 80x will run at over 110mph on the WCML I suspect not, at least initially.
One current diagram (non-Covid) has 2x221 starting at Blackpool and Holyhead and combining at Crewe, which will probably change.

 

[RailWonderer]

Were Avanti (and VT beforehand) short on Pendolinos that Voyagers are operating electric routes? I took the 10:03 to Birmingham in December off EUS and was surprised to have a Voyager, I had a Voyager at Rugby that came from Liverpool also. I knew they did set swaps to fit Voyagers on the Blackpool, was that because they were short of Pendos or because Pendos couldn't call at K&W and Poulton?