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Progressive federalism - is now the time?

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adrock1976

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In the "Rail Operators call for leisure fares to increase" thread in the Fares Advice & Policy section, I replied to somebody who mentioned to express preferences at the ballot box of how to restructure the present fares system, which can be seen at the below link.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...eturns-to-increase.178399/page-5#post-3884395

Although I have focussed on voting patterns in Scotland for General Elections from 1979 onwards, I believe similar could be applied to Tyne & Wear, West Yorkshire, South Yorkshire, Merseyside, Greater Manchester, and the West Midlands (all former metropolitan County Council areas from 1974-86), West Glamorgan, South Glamorgan, Mid Glamorgan, and Gwent for Wales, in that most of the electorate did not get the government that they voted for. Over time, this obviously leads to a democratic deficit in that the government that is in charge may not properly take the concerns of the constituencies that did not vote for the government that is in charge that may be raised, and also can lead to disenfranchisement, as can be seen with the recent rise of Scottish nationalism with former solid Labour (both the red and blue versions) constituencies giving the SNP a go, but to no avail as it did not affect the outcome of the result of Scotland getting a government it did not vote for.

What I believe is that the governance of Great Britain (assuming Northern Ireland gets returned to the Irish, but maybe for a new thread especially when viewed in context of the upcoming events on 29 March 2019) needs to be radically overhauled. I would start with bringing back the Metropolitan County Councils that were abolished by Thatcher in 1986, plus create a few new ones too for areas which did not have them back in 1974. New ones would be Glamorgan & Gwent (covering Swansea, Cardiff, and Newport - it seems an injustice that at least one of Wales's three largest cities did not get one in 1974), North Somerset (covering Bristol, Weston-super-Mare (maybe), and Bath Spa), Exeter & Torbay (simple enough), and possibly Kingston & Grimsby (former Humberside CC, which would use the the first name of the port city of its full name, similar as to how the telephone network is Kingston Communications). These are just examples that could be refined and added to, and is not exhaustive.

Secondly, for the non-metropolitan areas, I would have regional devolution, with those regions being broadly based on the existing European Parliament regions, with the d'Honte method being used for elections. The local councils can use the single transferrable vote system as that is how councillors are elected in Scotland, with multi-member wards.

Thirdly, for General Elections, I would trim the number of MPs down and create larger constituencies, with the number of MPs each region sends to the Federal Parliament (relocated from Westminster to Birmingham, so as to make it more easily accessible to the whole of Great Britain) being based on one MP per X amount of population. For example, if West Midlands region has a population of 3.5 million (arbitrary figure), and the value of X is 250,000, this would mean West Midlands Region would have 12 MPs - a big chop from the present many there (maybe a lower value of X is needed?). The Federal Parliament would be elected using the d'Honte method of proportional representation, which would better reflect the voting patterns across the regions, with the regions and councils having greater powers than is presently the case, and would enable local (and maybe regional) tax raising for local needs (and maybe regional needs).

On a final point (apologies for the lengthy post), I would like to see that anybody who is standing for election must have been residing in the area for a minimum of five years. This would get rid of careerists standing for election that have no connection with the area, such as the likes of Tristram Hunt (never resided in Stoke-on-Trent before being elected) and Esther McVey (who got the boot in 2017 in West Wirral, and re-emerged in Tatton recently, despite not having any connections with that area). Any members that are voted out are to miss standing again for one election of Council, County, Regional, and Federal so as to prevent them from popping up again in another elected capacity (Frank "Sorry I was running late to cast my vote and almost missed doing so, as I was in the canteen scoffing all the pies" McAveety take note, as the electorate of Shettleston keep giving you the boot). I will end with that for MPs, Regional Members, and anybody who is elected, to pledge their allegiance to the electorate rather than the monarchy.

Any further thoughts?
 
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I made a sort of similar thread last week - https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...tem-need-to-be-revised-and-simplified.177930/ - on this link.

Yes i believe that the governance system needs to be overhauled. I wouldn't support a full federal system like you have with the states of Germany or the USA etc but it does need to be overhauled.

I would have one type of governance system in place for all of the UK. I would simply create one unitary County Council for each and every county in the UK. So i would create a "Greater Birmingham County Council" and "Greater London County Council" and "Greater Manchester County Council" and "Merseyside County Council" and "Yorkshire County Council" etc etc etc for each county. I believe it would be far better to have one county council in charge of most things within that county. We also need to make sure that there is one consistent system used everywhere in all areas of the UK.

But i don't really support a federal system.
 

yorksrob

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I certainly agree that there needs to be a greater devolution of some form. Whether we go for regionalism or a reinvigoration of local government, there certainly needs to be some sort of a Barnett formula, to stop central government pushing statutory responsibilities on local/regional government, without providing it with the means to fund them.
 

DarloRich

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So i would create a "Greater Birmingham County Council" and "Greater London County Council" and "Greater Manchester County Council" and "Merseyside County Council" and "Yorkshire County Council"

I agree with the principle but am not sure this has been thought through in detail. One "Yorkshire" council would be massive and would be subject to constant political footballing over which city had primacy. it would have areas of vast economic difference, political views and support/ intervention levels.

I certainly agree that there needs to be a greater devolution of some form. Whether we go for regionalism or a reinvigoration of local government, there certainly needs to be some sort of a Barnett formula, to stop central government pushing statutory responsibilities on local/regional government, without providing it with the means to fund them.

that isnt going to happen though is it?
 

bussnapperwm

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I made a sort of similar thread last week - https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...tem-need-to-be-revised-and-simplified.177930/ - on this link.

Yes i believe that the governance system needs to be overhauled. I wouldn't support a full federal system like you have with the states of Germany or the USA etc but it does need to be overhauled.

I would have one type of governance system in place for all of the UK. I would simply create one unitary County Council for each and every county in the UK. So i would create a "Greater Birmingham County Council" and "Greater London County Council" and "Greater Manchester County Council" and "Merseyside County Council" and "Yorkshire County Council" etc etc etc for each county. I believe it would be far better to have one county council in charge of most things within that county. We also need to make sure that there is one consistent system used everywhere in all areas of the UK.

But i don't really support a federal system.

Grrr...
As a resident of Dudley, I find it offensive that you would suggest calling us part of Greater Birmingham.

As I'm sure any other member on here from the Black Country would agree, Birmingham has too much influence on this historic part of England and that reducing the Black Country to a suburb of Birmingham is taking it too far.
 

adrock1976

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Grrr...
As a resident of Dudley, I find it offensive that you would suggest calling us part of Greater Birmingham.

As I'm sure any other member on here from the Black Country would agree, Birmingham has too much influence on this historic part of England and that reducing the Black Country to a suburb of Birmingham is taking it too far.

I was going to say something similar along those lines, as I am originally from that neck of the woods.

If you look on a map of the West Midlands metropolitan area, the M5 separates Birmingham (formerly in Warwickshire up to 1974) from the Black Country towns (which were in Worcestershire and Staffordshire up to 1974).

This "Greater Birmingham" that has been banded round for a few years does nothing for the local residents either side of the M5. The only group that would benefit would be big corporations, who would in my view be most likely to do everything possible to dodge paying tax and would walk away with the loot. The locals probably would not see a penny invested in the region at all.
 
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Personally i have always considered Coventry and Wolverhampton and all other parts of the county of West Midlands to be suburbs of Birmingham. In the same way that Bromley and Croydon and Harrow and Romford are suburbs of London.

I think Greater Birmingham is a much better county name as it avoids confusion as West Midlands can also be used to refer to the much wider region covering other counties (eg Warwickshire and Worcestershire etc) as well as just the county called West Midlands.
 

Butts

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Personally i have always considered Coventry and Wolverhampton and all other parts of the county of West Midlands to be suburbs of Birmingham. In the same way that Bromley and Croydon and Harrow and Romford are suburbs of London.

I think Greater Birmingham is a much better county name as it avoids confusion as West Midlands can also be used to refer to the much wider region covering other counties (eg Warwickshire and Worcestershire etc) as well as just the county called West Midlands.

Having lived in Halesowen, Old Hill and Dudley , I wouldn't advise publicly espousing your view when visiting these and other places mentioned that they are part of "Greater Birmingham".

You may become familiar with Russells Hall Hospital rather rapidly !!
 

A Challenge

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Secondly, for the non-metropolitan areas, I would have regional devolution, with those regions being broadly based on the existing European Parliament regions, with the d'Honte method being used for elections. The local councils can use the single transferrable vote system as that is how councillors are elected in Scotland, with multi-member wards.
Scotland (ansaWakes) use the Additional Member System, are you proposing that (which I think would be better than First-past-the-post), or Single Transferrable Vote (used in Northern Ireland)?
 

adrock1976

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What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
Scotland (ansaWakes) use the Additional Member System, are you proposing that (which I think would be better than First-past-the-post), or Single Transferrable Vote (used in Northern Ireland)?

The Additional Member System (which uses the d'Honte method for allocating the regional MSPs in Scotland) for the regions and the Federal Parliament, with Single Transferrable Vote used for local council elections, which would be multi-member wards.

Moving to a proportional representation voting system would mean that every vote would count, and that most, if not every area of Great Britain would have some resemblance as to the government that was voted for.
 
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