• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Project Oval: TfL win DfT contract to expand contactless system to 233 rail stations by May 2024, Railcards coming to contactless payment cards

Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Joined
31 Dec 2019
Messages
722
Location
uk
There has to be a line drawn somewhere.
There does but given Hove's proximity to Brighton and its purpose as a junction for London Victoria - Littlehampton and West Coastway - Brighton services makes it pretty silly for it to technically be not a valid route.
 

etr221

Member
Joined
10 Mar 2018
Messages
1,089
I put an overlay onto a Project Mapping map earlier in this thread in post 743.


Blue is existing PAYG network, with green being Phase 1 and yellow being Phase 2. I don't think a list or map split into 2a/2b has been released.
Thanks. So no actual list of the 233 yet...

There does but given Hove's proximity to Brighton and its purpose as a junction for London Victoria - Littlehampton and West Coastway - Brighton services makes it pretty silly for it to technically be not a valid route.
One of the issues when you start extending the system to places like Brighton is that there is or will be a demand for it be extended based on them being 'centres' in their own right (so from Brighton along Coastway in both directions, to match going inland), rather than 'just a bit further from London'. And before you know it, you'll have contactless areas bumping into each other...

And as contactless spreads to become a 'normal' way of paying the argument that some places don't have enough traffic to justify it is going become difficult to justify...
 
Last edited:
Joined
31 Dec 2019
Messages
722
Location
uk
One of the issues when you start extending the system to places like Brighton is that there is or will be a demand for it be extended based on them being 'centres' in their own right (so from Brighton along Coastway in both directions, to match going inland), rather than 'just a bit further from London'. And before you know it, you'll have contactless areas bumping into each other...
Of course, I understand this, however Hove is a key route for accessing Brighton from London. It is 1 station. It would not highly encourage the rest of the coastway.
 

Farigiraf

Member
Joined
23 Jul 2023
Messages
310
Location
Bridge on the river Cam
Any reason why PAYG is shown to eventually come to Maidstone West, as well as Tonbridge, but not the part of the Medway Valley line between Paddock Wood and East Farleigh? Is it to do with London services e.g the limited HS1 service to Maidstone W?
 

MrJeeves

Established Member
Joined
28 Aug 2015
Messages
2,162
Location
Burgess Hill
Any reason why PAYG is shown to eventually come to Maidstone West, as well as Tonbridge, but not the part of the Medway Valley line between Paddock Wood and East Farleigh? Is it to do with London services e.g the limited HS1 service to Maidstone W?
I'd expect it to be partially that and partially just covering Maidstone generally so that people don't complain about one station in the town having it and the other not, otherwise I'd expect loads of extra confusion.
 

Haywain

Veteran Member
Joined
3 Feb 2013
Messages
15,897
I'd expect it to be partially that and partially just covering Maidstone generally so that people don't complain about one station in the town having it and the other not, otherwise I'd expect loads of extra confusion.
I guess that it also avoids having to have separate fares to different Maidstone stations.
 
Joined
23 Dec 2023
Messages
14
Location
Birmingham
Can someone explain to me how this works without a contactless cap consistent across all train operators and phasing out tickets?

Otherwise why would someone tap in and out when they can probably evade paying as much due to no revenue protection across the network?
 

Edvid

Established Member
Joined
7 Feb 2008
Messages
1,383
Relevant bit quoted below:
From Sunday 30 June 2024, you’ll be able to pay as you go with a contactless card or device at another 6 National Rail stations. They are:
  • Denham
  • Denham Golf Club
  • Gerrards Cross
  • Seer Green & Jordans
  • Beaconsfield
  • High Wycombe
We’re also preparing to introduce pay as you go with contactless at 47 more National Rail stations across the South East soon. [...]

Basically, 11.32% of Phase 1 (along the Chiltern Main Line - "1A"?) is planned to go live within 3 weeks.
 

Haywain

Veteran Member
Joined
3 Feb 2013
Messages
15,897
Relevant bit quoted below:


Basically, 11.32% of Phase 1 (along the Chiltern Main Line - "1A"?) is planned to go live within 3 weeks.
It also says this:
You will no longer be able to buy a Super Off-Peak ticket on journeys where pay as you go with contactless is, or soon will be available, however the price of Off-Peak tickets has been reduced to reflect this.
Of course, this applies except where it doesn't - for example on the Great Northern, Midland Main Line, Brighton main line.
 

SWT_USER

Member
Joined
29 Aug 2010
Messages
885
Location
Ashford Middx
Relevant bit quoted below:


Basically, 11.32% of Phase 1 (along the Chiltern Main Line - "1A"?) is planned to go live within 3 weeks.
It's still a complete circus then. Meanwhile the remaining 90% of stations are still being ripped off with higher fares and none of the promised benefits :rolleyes:
 

Starmill

Veteran Member
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
23,493
Location
Bolton
Apparently there are some pretty serious implementation issues with converting the taps to accurate prices which are the cause of the delay, so it will be interesting to see if the implementation of fares matching to touches is actually correct against what the advertised fare on the finder is when this initial Chiltern served extension opens.
 

CyrusWuff

Established Member
Joined
20 May 2013
Messages
4,099
Location
London
It's still a complete circus then. Meanwhile the remaining 90% of stations are still being ripped off with higher fares and none of the promised benefits :rolleyes:
Paper fares for the remaining stations changed in December, with Singles being priced at half the price of the Return, so the main difference is that Contactless isn't available yet.
 
Last edited:

SWT_USER

Member
Joined
29 Aug 2010
Messages
885
Location
Ashford Middx
Paper fares for the remaining stations changed back in December, with Singles being priced at half the price of the Return, so the main difference is that Contactless isn't available yet.
Is that right? I hadn't been looking particularly closely but wasn't aware the cheap 'Sunday out' fares had returned on SWR.
 

Haywain

Veteran Member
Joined
3 Feb 2013
Messages
15,897
Is that right? I hadn't been looking particularly closely but wasn't aware the cheap 'Sunday out' fares had returned on SWR.
You're reading it wrongly. It was "back in December" that they changed, not that they "changed back".
 

paul1609

Established Member
Joined
28 Jan 2006
Messages
7,403
Location
Wittersham Kent
I guess that it also avoids having to have separate fares to different Maidstone stations.
When I was a boy Maidstone West and the valley line were somewhat of a rural backwater. When doing some reasearch on another topic I was surprised to note that in last years ORR figures Maidstone West and Barracks now have combined entry and exit figures of 860,000 compared to East's 1m and that Barracks and Wests primary destination is now London St Pancras thats a massive turnround and I suggest its down to HS1 changing at Strood providing easy access to docklands at Stratford etc.
 

778

Member
Joined
4 May 2020
Messages
379
Location
Hemel Hempstead
When contactless has been implemented at all of the stations proposed for both phase 1 and phase 2, will that finally be the end of outboundary travelcards?
 

Benjwri

Established Member
Joined
16 Jan 2022
Messages
1,981
Location
Bath
When contactless has been implemented at all of the stations proposed for both phase 1 and phase 2, will that finally be the end of outboundary travelcards?
I would certainly hope not, but I fear it could be.

There are a huge amount of stations with outboundary travelcards which aren’t included, especially places like the Thames Valley past Reading that is less than an hour from London.
 

Goldfish62

Established Member
Joined
14 Feb 2010
Messages
10,265
I would certainly hope not, but I fear it could be.

There are a huge amount of stations with outboundary travelcards which aren’t included, especially places like the Thames Valley past Reading that is less than an hour from London.
Didcot, Swindon, Newbury, Oxford, for example I should imagine.
 

paul1609

Established Member
Joined
28 Jan 2006
Messages
7,403
Location
Wittersham Kent
Skipping the Thames Valley, we have places like Horsham and Crawley, too, within about 40 minutes of London Terminals.
Crawley and Horsham within 40 mins of London Terminals? Oh really.
The fastest Horsham to Victoria service is 55mins not quite equalling the express timings when the elecctrified service was introduced in err 1938.
 

778

Member
Joined
4 May 2020
Messages
379
Location
Hemel Hempstead
I would certainly hope not, but I fear it could be.

There are a huge amount of stations with outboundary travelcards which aren’t included, especially places like the Thames Valley past Reading that is less than an hour from London.
Will off peak paper tickets still be kept after contactless is rolled out, at least for the forseable future?
 

Trainlog

Member
Joined
16 Aug 2022
Messages
268
Location
Maidstone
When I was a boy Maidstone West and the valley line were somewhat of a rural backwater. When doing some reasearch on another topic I was surprised to note that in last years ORR figures Maidstone West and Barracks now have combined entry and exit figures of 860,000 compared to East's 1m and that Barracks and Wests primary destination is now London St Pancras thats a massive turnround and I suggest its down to HS1 changing at Strood providing easy access to docklands at Stratford etc.
It's an improvement on what it was even 2 years ago. The half-hourly service has made the line a lot more usable since December 2022 - the frustration of waiting at Strood for 50 minutes if you have just missed the connection was bad, and I believe Southeastern has improved the connections in the last timetable change last week.
 

Trainlog

Member
Joined
16 Aug 2022
Messages
268
Location
Maidstone
Any reason why PAYG is shown to eventually come to Maidstone West, as well as Tonbridge, but not the part of the Medway Valley line between Paddock Wood and East Farleigh? Is it to do with London services e.g the limited HS1 service to Maidstone W?
Yeah its probably has partially to do with London services at Maidstone West and Tonbridge and also that part of the line has problems with fare dodging as there are no barriers at stations like Paddock Wood and the guard has little time to check tickets as they are often dispatching the train for most of the journey due to the stop start nature of the route.

Whilst this stretch of the Medway Valley gets a lot of engineering works, it does feel neglected. East Farleigh station has seen better days unfortunately and Maidstone West does have a bad pigeon-dropping problem on its platforms. It doesn't help there is a decent number 7 bus service from Maidstone to Tunbridge Wells that follows a fair bit of the route.
 

jfollows

Established Member
Joined
26 Feb 2011
Messages
6,118
Location
Wilmslow
I would certainly hope not, but I fear it could be.

There are a huge amount of stations with outboundary travelcards which aren’t included, especially places like the Thames Valley past Reading that is less than an hour from London.
Crewe, for example.
 

Top