Project Oval: TfL win DfT contract to expand contactless system to 233 rail stations by May 2024, Railcards coming to contactless payment cards

[Hadders]

Will off peak paper tickets still be kept after contactless is rolled out, at least for the forseable future?

Initially they will be kept as railcards discounted fares are not available using contactless PAYG.

Eventually, I can forsee off peak paper tickets and travelcards being removed once the railcard issue is overcome.

 

[778]

Initially they will be kept as railcards discounted fares are not available using contactless PAYG.

Eventually, I can forsee off peak paper tickets and travelcards being removed once the railcard issue is overcome.

Will the Network Railcard be removed as well?

 

[Goldfish62]

Eventually, I can forsee off peak paper tickets and travelcards being removed once the railcard issue is overcome.

How would people who can't or don't want to use contactless be able to travel?

 

[JonathanH]

How would people who can't or don't want to use contactless be able to travel?

TOC smartcard? How do people who don't want to use Contactless or Oyster travel on a London bus? It has been shown to be entirely feasible to remove other forms of ticket there.

There are a few places where TOC-led PAYG systems seem to be co-existing with Oyster / Conractless.

 

[Hadders]

Will the Network Railcard be removed as well?

I hope not!

 

[Goldfish62]

TOC smartcard? How do people who don't want to use Contactless or Oyster travel on a London bus? It has been shown to be entirely feasible to remove other forms of ticket there.

Ah yes - didn't think of that! Although they'd have to be more readily than they are now. None of this applying for one and having your name printed on it.

 

[HandyHat]

Although they'd have to be more readily than they are now. None of this applying for one and having your name printed on it.

At least at some of SWR's ticket offices, they can print out and issue you a smartcard with your name on in front of you.

 

[MrJeeves]

At least at some of SWR's ticket offices, they can print out and issue you a smartcard with your name on in front of you.

GTR also had Key Smartcard kiosks which would let you do this completely automated, but they seem to have disappeared over COVID.

 

[Wallsendmag]

GTR also had Key Smartcard kiosks which would let you do this completely automated, but they seem to have disappeared over COVID.

LNER were looking at those but the supplier withdrew them.

 

[MrJeeves]

LNER were looking at those but the supplier withdrew them.

Ah, shame that. They were surprisingly helpful, I found.

 

[778]

Is there a chance that the 1600-1900 evening restrictions will be extended to Saturdays at some point in the future? It does seem like project oval is a way of increasing fares by stealth.

 

[Hadders]

Is there a chance that the 1600-1900 evening restrictions will be extended to Saturdays at some point in the future? It does seem like project oval is a way of increasing fares by stealth.

I wouldn't have thought so, but can never say never.

TfL recently had a trial for off peak fares all day on Fridays.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

I wouldn't have thought so, but can never say never.

TfL recently had a trial for off peak fares all day on Fridays.

I wonder if it produced a net increase in revenue (more journeys at lower fares) vs normal Fridays ?

 

[JonathanH]

I wonder if it produced a net increase in revenue (more journeys at lower fares) vs normal Fridays ?

It is quite possible it didn't. We will have to wait until some official analysis is released. Of note is that it hasn't been extended.

 

[Haywain]

I wonder if it produced a net increase in revenue (more journeys at lower fares) vs normal Fridays ?

Highly unlikely, in my opinion. It would have to generate enough extra journeys to make up the lower fares and discounts available during peak times.

 

[Trainbike46]

How many people are actually aware of what the oyster fares are? to drive extra demand, people have to realise that it got cheaper

EDIT: this is referring to the Off-peak All day Friday trial

 

[SynthD]

How many people are actually aware of what the oyster fares are? to drive extra demand, people have to realise that it got cheaper

No, we’ve seen demand come from the ease of use, or from adding stations to the map.

 

[bcarmicle]

I think trainbike46 was referring to whether the Off-Peak Fridays trial drove additional demand, not Oyster in general.

 

[Trainbike46]

No, we’ve seen demand come from the ease of use, or from adding stations to the map.

I think trainbike46 was referring to whether the Off-Peak Fridays trial drove additional demand, not Oyster in general.

Exactly correct, I was referring to the off-peak friday trial, oyster in general (and also project oval) will make things more convenient, which will undoubtedly help increase demand

 

[James H]

I wonder if it produced a net increase in revenue (more journeys at lower fares) vs normal Fridays ?

This question was asked at the recent TfL board meeting - the response was that the in-the-round analysis is still being done (including impacts on businesses etc beyond TfL) - I think if it had produced a soaraway increase in Friday ridership they would have said so immediately without waiting for the full statistical report.

(That's not to say I think it was a bad thing to trial it, or that they are wrong to do a holistic analysis of the impact. Just that I think we can read between the lines of the response from TfL top brass)

 

[jon81uk]

I wonder if it produced a net increase in revenue (more journeys at lower fares) vs normal Fridays ?

I don't think the aim was solely to get revenue for TfL but also more generally to encourage more people into the city and west end on a Friday to spend in bars, restaurants and theatres. As the Friday night drinks after work havd stopped, or moved to Thursdays the Mayor wants to try and encourage people to come in on Fridays too.

 

[Haywain]

How many people are actually aware of what the oyster fares are?

If people are not aware of the fares there wasn't much point in telling them that Fridays were off-peak all day during the trial. If that were the case the only purpose of the trial would have been to establish how much revenue was lost by making the change.

 

[Mag_seven]

If anyone wants to discuss Fridays TfL Off Peak Travel then please post in this thread:

TfL Off Peak Friday Travel

TfL have announced that, for a trial period starting on 8th March, all Friday travel will be charged as off-peak. I am interested in travelling from Reading to Gatwick airport on a Friday in what would previously have been morning peak period. TfL's single fare finder quotes a fare for this...

www.railforums.co.uk

and leave this one free for discussion of Project Oval

thanks

 

[mattdickinson]

Contactless acceptance, including the six new Chiltern stations (and Oyster also) is shown on the latest edition of the London & South East Rail map

https://assets.nationalrail.co.uk/e8xgegruud3g/70ASbL95pQH6aPTtTCiYrO/1a95658726f7b6c168df320ebec4c6c3/LSE_QR_3-5-24_v1A.pdf

 

[paok]

Contactless acceptance, including the six new Chiltern stations (and Oyster also) is shown on the latest edition of the London & South East Rail map

https://assets.nationalrail.co.uk/e8xgegruud3g/70ASbL95pQH6aPTtTCiYrO/1a95658726f7b6c168df320ebec4c6c3/LSE_QR_3-5-24_v1A.pdf

Here also: https://assets.nationalrail.co.uk/e.../Pay_As_You_Go_Contactless_Map_30_June_24.pdf

 

[etr221]

Here also: https://assets.nationalrail.co.uk/e.../Pay_As_You_Go_Contactless_Map_30_June_24.pdf

Which I'm surprised doesn't also indicate where Oyster may be used.

Are there not any other areas of the Network where contactless can be used yet?

 

[mattdickinson]

Which I'm surprised doesn't also indicate where Oyster may be used.

Are there not any other areas of the Network where contactless can be used yet?

Contactless is valid on TfW and CrossCountry (but not GWR) between Pontyclun and Ebbw Vale.

Pay as you go travel | Transport for Wales

Transport for Wales | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

tfw.wales

 

[etr221]

Contactless is valid on TfW and CrossCountry (but not GWR) between Pontyclun and Ebbw Vale.

Pay as you go travel | Transport for Wales

Transport for Wales | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

tfw.wales

With no cross-reference between the London area (Project Oval) and TfW schemes (at least as far as I can see...). The National Rail website only shows/talks about the London scheme, although TfW and Cross Country are part of National Rail...

While at present the two schemes are completely seperate and far apart, one trusts people are thinking about what to say and do when they (and any others) when they get closer and start interacting. Has anyone tried touching in at London/Reading and out at Newport/Cardiff (or vv) yet, I wonder...

 

[MrJeeves]

Which I'm surprised doesn't also indicate where Oyster may be used.

I'm not particularly surprised that the Contactless PAYG map doesn't show information about Oyster...

 

[swt_passenger]

[…]
Has anyone tried touching in at London/Reading and out at Newport/Cardiff (or vv) yet, I wonder...

Someone’s almost guaranteed to try. A few days later they’ll be able to join here and post that they were confused…