Project Oval: TfL win DfT contract to expand contactless system to 233 rail stations by May 2024, Railcards coming to contactless payment cards

[Kite159]

Someone’s almost guaranteed to try. A few days later they’ll be able to join here and post that they were confused…

Had that on Saturday evening, someone tried to use a contactless card on a GWR service when the guard checked tickets between Newport & Bristol

 

[MikeWh]

So, somehow I managed to miss the posts around June 11th regarding the split for phase 1a. However, the following has been posted on my site this evening: https://oysterfares.com/contactless-expansion-to-high-wycombe/

Considering that we are in the middle of a general election campaign and that this project (Oval) is being sponsored by the Department for Transport, I was quite surprised to see that six new stations joined the contactless PAYG system yesterday. The six stations are: Beaconsfield, Denham, Denham Golf Club, Gerrards Cross, High Wycombe and Seer Green & Jordans.

Single fares are priced by Chiltern Railways and daily, off-peak and weekly caps are set at the same as the relevant travelcard price from zone 1. The immediate benefit for commuters who would usually buy a weekly travelcard is that they can now just travel and not worry whether they will make enough journeys to justify buying the travelcard in advance.

I’ve activated these six new stations in the fare finder which shows fares and caps (if available). The time to complete journey information will be added once I have it.

 

[MrJeeves]

Hopefully the Travelcard-based capping will also be used for the remainder of Oval...

Not sure how that will pan out with stations that only have Travelcards which are routed by TOC at the moment.

 

[JonathanH]

Not sure how that will pan out with stations that only have Travelcards which are routed by TOC at the moment.

They will surely be withdrawn, in the same way that other fares which don't fit the Contactless PAYG structure have been. It has long been feared that Project Oval is an opportunity for stealth fare increases.

Hopefully the Travelcard-based capping will also be used for the remainder of Oval...

Is a model of solely zone 1 centric capping actually a good thing? I guess it is better than nothing, but weekly capping on line of route might also be useful.

 

[MrJeeves]

They will surely be withdrawn, in the same way that other fares which don't fit the Contactless PAYG structure have been.

But will the caps then be some unfounded and arbitrary monetary value invented by the TOC/TfL/RDG/DfT? Will a new set of Any Permitted Travelcard fares take its place to allow Railcard holders to continue benefiting from their discounted fares while Contactless PAYG doesn't support it?

I can't see anyone being happy that my (non-discounted) local Travelcards will skyrocket from the TOC-restricted Super Off-peak £17.70-£22.80 on a weekend to the Any Permitted Off-peak price of £36.50...

 

[JonathanH]

But will the caps then be some unfounded and arbitrary monetary value invented by the TOC/TfL/RDG/DfT? Will a new set of Any Permitted Travelcard fares take its place to allow Railcard holders to continue benefiting from their discounted fares while Contactless PAYG doesn't support it?

I can't see anyone being happy that my (non-discounted) local Travelcards will skyrocket from the TOC-restricted Super Off-peak £17.70-£22.80 on a weekend to the Any Permitted Off-peak price of £36.50...

You are describing exactly what happened from Bletchley, for example.

The pre-December 2023 fares were:
Super off-peak day travelcard £22.60
Off-peak day travelcard £28.90

The post-December 2023 fare was
Off-peak day travelcard £26.50

The super off-peak day travelcard was withdrawn. Contactless not yet in place but the fares were changed in anticipation.

 

[MrJeeves]

You are describing exactly what happened from Bletchley, for example.

The pre-December 2023 fares were:
Super off-peak day travelcard £22.60
Off-peak day travelcard £28.90

The post-December 2023 fare was
Off-peak day travelcard £26.50

The super off-peak day travelcard was withdrawn. Contactless not yet in place but the fares were changed in anticipation.

Not exactly what happened in Bletchley. The Bletchley Travelcard only has/had a location-based route, not a TOC-based one.

There weren't multiple Super Off-peak Travelcards priced at different levels.
There weren't Super Off-peak Travelcards with TOC restrictions (my local stations only have TOC restricted Super Off-peak TCs).

I will be interested to see what the fare difference is (obviously it will go up in price, let's be real). Will the Off-Peak be closer towards the current Super Off-peaks, or will they price it closer to the Off-peaks to prevent commuters from getting "too good" of a deal?

 

[CyrusWuff]

Is a model of solely zone 1 centric capping actually a good thing? I guess it is better than nothing, but weekly capping on line of route might also be useful.

I would assume that point to point capping was quickly put into the "too difficult" box, given it would presumably need to be implemented for every possible station pair to avoid inconsistencies and customer complaints.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You are describing exactly what happened from Bletchley, for example.

The pre-December 2023 fares were:
Super off-peak day travelcard £22.60
Off-peak day travelcard £28.90

The post-December 2023 fare was
Off-peak day travelcard £26.50

The super off-peak day travelcard was withdrawn. Contactless not yet in place but the fares were changed in anticipation.

This is probably the right balance given that the Super Off Peak was so heavily restricted. It was near useless for a day out on a weekday or Saturday (though good for a Sunday or an evening).

Overall I prefer the new fares than the old ones. They are simpler, and for some of my use cases (peak in, off peak out) they are considerably cheaper than before.

Bletchley hasn't always had three tiers, by the way, they were introduced around 2010. Going back to two (with the added benefit of single fare pricing but keeping the returns too) is just going back to pre-about-2010.

 

[Harryeurostar]

Readers at Otford have been switched on (strangely only on the southbound side? The other side still have the blue cover) It accepted my Key smart card when presented but I didn't have a go with a debit card

 

[CyrusWuff]

Readers at Otford have been switched on (strangely only on the southbound side? The other side still have the blue cover) It accepted my Key smart card when presented but I didn't have a go with a debit card

They could have been uncovered for testing purposes, given they don't have vinyls yet - other than the device ID.

 

[SWT_USER]

Readers at Otford have been switched on (strangely only on the southbound side? The other side still have the blue cover) It accepted my Key smart card when presented but I didn't have a go with a debit

I'd be curious to know if anything does actually happen if you have a go with a credit/ debit card.

I am not a technical person but the previous posts about the fares data already being in the system, and the readers installed... how hard can it be to just switch them on? Can all these months of delay really be justified?

 

[tbwbear]

Just spoke to the Cubic personnel (supplier of the equipment) who just happened to be at Otford (my local station) this evening.

They were looking for something - unwrapped one of the blue covers on the up side, and then put the covers back quickly.

I asked but they had no idea when the equipment will be in operation, but not yet apparently.

 

[jon0844]

Just spoke to the Cubic personnel (supplier of the equipment) who just happened to be at Otford (my local station) this evening.

They were looking for something - unwrapped one of the blue covers on the up side, and then put the covers back quickly.

I asked but they had no idea when the equipment will be in operation, but not yet apparently.

If it's like other stations outside of London, TfL has to install its own equipment to manage and transmit the data collected - which is separate to the smartcards. Once that's done then it's pretty much good to go.

 

[tbwbear]

If it's like other stations outside of London, TfL has to install its own equipment to manage and transmit the data collected - which is separate to the smartcards. Once that's done then it's pretty much good to go.

The equipment (the readers etc.) has been installed for several months. It has been covered up by blue covers for most of that time. We have seen (as reported above) some of the machines uncovered (also at nearby Bat and Ball) but they have often been covered up again.

 

[jon0844]

The equipment (the readers etc.) has been installed for several months. It has been covered up by blue covers for most of that time. We have seen (as reported above) some of the machines uncovered (also at nearby Bat and Ball) but they have often been covered up again.

You can't always see the networking equipment so has that definitely been done? At some stations, TfL opted to use a 4G router temporarily before everything was hard wired in. I assume TfL requires a secure connection totally separate to what the existing TOC uses.

 

[Haywain]

TfL are also quite heavy on testing before things can go live.

 

[778]

They will surely be withdrawn, in the same way that other fares which don't fit the Contactless PAYG structure have been. It has long been feared that Project Oval is an opportunity for stealth fare increases.

They were only saved less than a year ago, so probably too early for another proposal to withdraw them. It would not go down well if they did. The Travelcard will be axed eventually, but proably not for the forseeable future.

 

[Benjwri]

They were only saved less than a year ago, so probably too early for another proposal to withdraw them. It would not go down well if they did. The Travelcard will be axed eventually, but proably not for the forseeable future.

There would still be travel cards, just not TOC specific ones.

 

[MikeWh]

I've been contacted on my site about the possible activation of Project Oval between Swanley/Knockholt and Sevenoaks from September 22nd.

Several posts from: https://oysterfares.com/topic/project-oval-payg-expansion/#post-6264

I’m Vice-Chair of Darent Valley Community Rail Partnership, and Southeastern has told us that Contactless will be extended to stations on the lines to Sevenoaks on 22 September, as part of Project OVAL. The readers and associated equipment have been installed and running for over a year now (fyi they incorporate Cisco hardware among other things). Stations covered are Eynsford, Shoreham (Kent), Otford, Bat & Ball, Sevenoaks and Dunton Green. This forum looks like a good place to post information about this route and others as contactless is implemented. The implementation is long delayed, so we don’t know if it will happen on the 22nd.

 

[Pumbaa]

Correct. Available from 22nd, press launch on 23rd, for all other Phase 1 (?) TOCs.

 

[Chriso]

Had that on Saturday evening, someone tried to use a contactless card on a GWR service when the guard checked tickets between Newport & Bristol

To be fair their is a TFW Newport - Cardiff - Bridgend contactless trial in operation with special gates at each station

 

[Vexed]

Correct. Available from 22nd, press launch on 23rd, for all other Phase 1 (?) TOCs.

All phase 1 TOCs except Chiltern, so everything in the original press release except the 6 stations Denham to High Wycombe.

 

[SWT_USER]

Good news if true, but I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[jackdoyle]

Press release from LNWR: https://www.mynewsdesk.com/uk/westm...logy-coming-to-14-stations-next-month-3339074

 

[A S Leib]

From Sunday 22 September, pay as you go with contactless will launch across the entire c2c network. This will mean that customers will be able to simply turn up, touch in and go using a contactless payment card or device.

As part of the wider expansion of the pay as you go with contactless area across the South East of England, 15 c2c stations (see list below) will join those which already accept this payment method.

In addition to the c2c network, from 22 September this payment method can be used across London and the wider pay as you go with contactless area, with the best value adult fare calculated and charged for journeys made on the day and time of travel. For most people, this fare is the same as a ticket bought on the day. Customers will also be able to benefit from Monday to Sunday price capping when travelling into and within London.

Pay as you go with contactless is another addition to our wide range of c2c tickets and payment options (which includes e-tickets, Smartcards and paper tickets), which will all continue to be available to customers at our stations, on our website and in our app.

c2c will be sharing further information ahead of the formal launch of pay as you go with contactless over the coming weeks, so keep an eye on our website and social channels, and also your inboxes if you are registered to receive service and marketing updates.

– via email from c2c.

I can't actually see the list of 15 stations, but I'm fairly sure that's all of them east of Upminster / Grays (the existing Oyster boundary).

 

[Haywain]

I notice that both LNR and c2c talk about "the best adult fare calculated" but don't mention that this doesn't apply to railcard holders. I've no problem with the spin about convenience, but I do feel they should be making this a bit clearer.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I notice that both LNR and c2c talk about "the best adult fare calculated" but don't mention that this doesn't apply to railcard holders. I've no problem with the spin about convenience, but I do feel they should be making this a bit clearer.

LNR's page makes it very clear that Railcard discounts are not available in my view.

It'll still be useful for my outward morning peak journeys though.

 

[jon81uk]

I notice that both LNR and c2c talk about "the best adult fare calculated" but don't mention that this doesn't apply to railcard holders. I've no problem with the spin about convenience, but I do feel they should be making this a bit clearer.

Other than the Network Railcard, other railcard holders generally are not "adults" they are young persons or seniors etc

 

[Benjwri]

I notice that both LNR and c2c talk about "the best adult fare calculated" but don't mention that this doesn't apply to railcard holders. I've no problem with the spin about convenience, but I do feel they should be making this a bit clearer.

C2C also make it clear in the webpage that it doesn’t apply to railcards.

Other than the Network Railcard, other railcard holders generally are not "adults" they are young persons or seniors etc

Who are still adults? Most people see an adult fare as over 16 for the vast majority of things.

I don’t think many 25-30 year old will see adult and think that doesn’t apply to them.