Cambridge South new station construction progress.

[glbotu]

I have no idea on that. But being a Cambridge boy and being taught by a train enthusiast teacher in primary school who told the class 1 day (when on a visit to Cambridge South box), what I posted above (ie didn't want dirty steam trains in "their" town!

I can well believe the thing about 'ladies of the night', however I'm guessing the teacher left that bit out as the class was 9 year olds!

My understanding was that because even then, the temptations of London would be too great were the railway station in its originally planned location (Christ's Pieces, which is as central as you can imagine in Cambridge).

As an aside, there is a saying that you can walk from Cambridge to Oxford without leaving University land! Yep, they really do own that much! I believe Felixstowe freightliner terminal is owned by Trinity College.

The latter is true, the former is not. I think it may have been true some time in the 1800s, but there are large gaps now (obviously - for this forum anyway - the many railways in between, which are of course owned by Network Rail) The O2 Dome is also majority owned by Trinity College, Cambridge, they own an awful lot of stuff.

 

[TheDavibob]

A tiny bit more of an update on a potential station in the Cambridge News:

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/addenbrookes-train-station-thumbs-up-13466529

An Addenbrooke's train station has got the thumbs-up from the Transport Secretary

Cambridge could be in line for yet another new railway station as Transport Secretary Chris Grayling has come out in support of a station near Addenbrooke's. Mr Grayling visited Cambridge Biomedical Campus earlier this week to discuss plans for a train station, “Cambridge South”, on the site.

...

Cllr Bates added that Network Rail was being “very cooperative” with the project, and that the project would now include “four tracking” the rail lines to allow trains to overtake stationary carriages.

This, he said, would cost twice as much as a simple two-track solution, and would not be completed solely with private funds. Cllr Bates said it was likely some assistance from public funds would be required.

The need for four tracks is hardly surprising, and thus neither is the resulting cost to the public purse (as clearly the private investors were trying to build a two track station on the cheap), though I assume it will damage any schedules for construction quite a lot.

I'm intrigued as to how far they will go with four-tracking in the area, whether it will be confined to the station area alone or will extend further either to Shepreth Branch Jn or Cambridge station itself, or whether they'll leave that for if and when East West rail arrives.

 

[dk1]

Something has to give on this section as within the next couple of years the frequency on both routes will rise quite dramatically. 5 trains each way per hour on the WA route (3 Liv St/2 Airport) & 6 on the GN (2 Kings X/4 Thameslink). That's 22 movements every hour over Shepreth Branch Junction excluding any freight etc. Add a station here on two tracks & it will be a recipe for chaos. The signallers at Cambridge power box have only just had a huge uplift in workload with all the additional traffic associated with the North Station.

 

[whittlesfordok]

Looks like it is opening 2022 per Cambridge News today can’t post from mobile

 

[Bald Rick]

Looks like it is opening 2022 per Cambridge News today can’t post from mobile

You missed a key word from the report.

"Could"

 

[whittlesfordok]

You missed a key word from the report.

"Could"

Quite right but I think it will happen

 

[Bald Rick]

Quite right but I think it will happen

If someone stumps up the cash - and it's a lot - yes. But unlikely by 2022. That's only just over 4 years away, and it is at very very early stages. No one can possibly give reliable timescales until some design is done.

 

[bspahh]

If someone stumps up the cash - and it's a lot - yes. But unlikely by 2022. That's only just over 4 years away, and it is at very very early stages. No one can possibly give reliable timescales until some design is done.

In the Cambridge News https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/cambridge-south-station-could-built-14270779 says that Cambridge South station could be "could be built and open by next year if “lethargic” Network Rail gets its act together"

Former transport secretary Lord Andrew Adonis says 'Cambridge South' could be built and open by next year (2019) if “lethargic” Network Rail gets its act together.

He also noted that better transport links were vital to Cambridge’s success, and said his “fear” was that the city would be held up by the slow developments.

Lord Adonis said: “The key priority for the expansion of Cambridge is to tremendously improve access to the city. That is why the National Infrastructure Commission in its report on the Cambridge to Oxford link says it should be built no later than 2022.

“My view is that a station at Cambridge south could be built considerably quicker than that. It is Network Rail that is delaying it.

“What is required is a new platform on the existing lines between London and Cambridge, which could be right next to the existing track. That could be done this year if there is the will. It could be open and running next year.”

 

[Ianno87]

"Just needs a platform", apparently.

I suspect the difficult bit is actually getting it into a timetable...

 

[TheDavibob]

The problem is that this is complete rubbish -- there's utterly no way you could fit in a 2-platform Cambridge South with anything approximating the current service pattern, especially if almost all the trains that serve Cambridge stop there (i.e. all but the Kings Cross fasts and the Cross Country services, and maybe the semifasts). It needs a full and messy four-track solution. The approach to Cambridge from the south is grim and slow even now.

 

[Ianno87]

Not to mention who is going to pay for it either, of course.

 

[eastdyke]

Not to mention who is going to pay for it either, of course.

Is this before or after the 'Cambridge Metro'?
(basically a wheeled bendy-bus in tunnels under the City).

 

[D365]

Think we’ve got ourselves a nomination for project sponsor there?

Has it been discussed whether a flyover will be necessary to remove pathing constraints?

 

[Bald Rick]

In the Cambridge News https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/cambridge-south-station-could-built-14270779 says that Cambridge South station could be "could be built and open by next year if “lethargic” Network Rail gets its act together"

Well the noble Lord should know better than to fire off sound bites without being sure of his facts.

 

[a good off]

From Railfuture EA:

DfT and NR boards have approved the four-track railway south of Cambridge. GRIP1 study for it and Cambridge South station is now in progress. Contracts will be put out to tender to conduct GRIP2 & 3 to keep the momentum going. DfT has confirmed funding for these studies.

Four-platform Cambridge South station will be designed during GRIP process. Envisaged as two island platforms with straight (fast) tracks in centre and outer tracks slewed around platforms. Grade separation at Shepreth Branch Junction on track to London to increase capacity.

 

[TheDavibob]

Wow, that's far more comprehensive than I expected for the station. I assumed (a) full four-tracking would follow later, (b) the platforms would be split by destination and (c) all crossing manoeuvres would remain North of the station than at the junction.

Of course, GRIP 1 is well before option selection and it might be decided that such an option is too expensive (particularly Shepreth Branch Junction, on which the suggested platform split depends). Either way, nice to see progress. Cheers for the update

 

[D365]

The way I understood it, four tracking is basically a requirement for the station to go ahead.

 

[a good off]

How the area used to look...

https://flic.kr/p/e16sai
https://flic.kr/p/e1c8DY
https://flic.kr/p/e16sbp

 

[edwin_m]

There is an overbridge and a level crossing quite close on the two diverging routes, and this the built-up area of Great Shelford, so it would be quite difficult to provide grade separation at the actual location of Shepreth Branch Junction. I guess the junction would be abolished, bringing the two pairs of tracks alongside each other on the same level, with a flyover between there and the new station.

 

[mr_jrt]

The combination of Hobson's Brook, the Cambridge Road overbridge, and the (relatively) modern housing built between the lines would seem to me to make grade-separation by raising or lowering the Shepreth route far too hard I would have thought? To grade separate the Shelford route as the outer slow lines I guess you could lift them up on an embankment and convert the Granham's Road level crossing into a bridge into the bargain, but that would mean shutting the route for a very long time to build up the embankment I would have thought?

 

[snowball]

I'm not familiar with the area but Streetview shows newish houses and a block of flats near Granham's Road crossing, so converting it to a bridge may not be practicable.

 

[Bald Rick]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. This is the very first stage of engineering feasibility work. No one knows yet what the answer will be in engineering terms, (or how much it will cost). Also, this is very likely to tprequire an Order under the Transport & Works Act; those who have followed the Hope Valley line upgrade thread will know how long those take.

 

[mr_jrt]

I'm not familiar with the area but Streetview shows newish houses and a block of flats near Granham's Road crossing, so converting it to a bridge may not be practicable.

Those flats are the development that extends all the way up to the junction between the lines. I used to commute that way whilst they were being built and I personally thought it was a wasted opportunity as they could have built a junction station there to save trips all the way into Cambridge for passengers from Great Shelford and the WAML wanting to head eastwards. I guess that role will be filled by the proposed Cambridge South though...and it would have of course prevented any grade separation at all!

 

[adamedwards]

Looking at Google maps, is the answer to move the WAML east onto the fields at Granhams Road. The bridge can be built north of the level crossing, with the road ramp up running along the site of the current railway from the level crossing north to a new bridge, and then runs north east to rejoin the line of the road north of the farm?

The WAML is thus placed to run parallel with the Royston line at the junction, the flyover then being a rolling over of the down line over the line in from Royston. Indeed, given the vast majority of trains will be emus, could the flyover be emu only (with a ladder crossing for any freight) enabling the gradient to be steep, saving on the length of the embankments. (I think I read somewhere Hitchin flyover is done this way hence the junction still being needed for freight trains.)

 

[edwin_m]

Looking at Google maps, is the answer to move the WAML east onto the fields at Granhams Road. The bridge can be built north of the level crossing, with the road ramp up running along the site of the current railway from the level crossing north to a new bridge, and then runs north east to rejoin the line of the road north of the farm?

The WAML is thus placed to run parallel with the Royston line at the junction, the flyover then being a rolling over of the down line over the line in from Royston. Indeed, given the vast majority of trains will be emus, could the flyover be emu only (with a ladder crossing for any freight) enabling the gradient to be steep, saving on the length of the embankments. (I think I read somewhere Hitchin flyover is done this way hence the junction still being needed for freight trains.)

That's an interesting suggestion. Because of of the limited amount of open space between the crossing and the start of the houses to the south, the amount of re-alignment possible on the railway probably isn't enough for the road to ramp up and over on its existing alignment. So I think the road would also have to be re-aligned, perhaps even onto the current trackbed, to bridge the railway somewhere to the east of the existing junction. This pushes the ramp further north of course, but having the railway further east would also reduce the skew on the flyover. The gradient then looks a bit steeper than ideal but may still be OK given limited use by freight. It would help in this respect if Cambridge South was to the north of the Addenbrooke's Road overbridge.

However this has now set me wondering whether a flyover is even necessary. Many of the trains via Stortford terminate at Cambridge anyway, so it might be better to keep them on the east side of the layout rather than forcing them to cross over the "fast" lines somewhere in the vicinity of the existing station.

 

[OxtedL]

I think that's the key point.

If four tracking is happening all the way to Cambridge then I reckon we can assume a complete redesign of the track layout at Cambridge station is on the cards.

Then whether you need grade separation depends on whether you can do something sufficiently creative at the Cambridge station north/south throats to fit the proposed service pattern.

You may end up needing no separation - or even any extra pointwork - all the way to Shepreth Jn. Alternatively, with the wrong service pattern you might end up needing some much more complicated grade separation.

I guess these are the questions the designers will be starting to answer in GRIP1.

 

[D365]

However this has now set me wondering whether a flyover is even necessary. Many of the trains via Stortford terminate at Cambridge anyway, so it might be better to keep them on the east side of the layout rather than forcing them to cross over the "fast" lines somewhere in the vicinity of the existing station.

Exactly my quandary; is grade separation actually needed for the number of GA services that continue north of Cambridge?

 

[Class 170101]

Remember its not just GA EMU services that run north through Cambridge Station. You have XC services running north - maybe two per hour in future. GA will also be running a Stansted to Norwich service plus there are all those trains that run to Cambridge North and terminate.

 

[mervyn72]

Those familiar with the track layout of Shepreth Branch Junction, can you explain why when heading towards London you cross onto the down line and then another movement onto the branch. Does this right/left/right action have any benefits as it seems to me that the speed limit is lower than it needs to be?

 

[swt_passenger]

Those familiar with the track layout of Shepreth Branch Junction, can you explain why when heading towards London you cross onto the down line and then another movement onto the branch. Does this right/left/right action have any benefits as it seems to me that the speed limit is lower than it needs to be?

If space (length) allows that layout is now preferred as it removes the diamond crossover - they are considered a maintenance and reliability overhead.