Proposals for a new Cambridge South station.

Discussion in 'Infrastructure & Stations' started by whittlesfordok, 2 Feb 2017.

  1. sharpener

    sharpener Member

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    Yes, for two more tracks, what about the station approach road shown in all 3 options as running under the bridge on the W side of the track formation?
     
  2. Class 170101

    Class 170101 Established Member

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    So no actual tracks then - can't see many trains being able to stop there. The section between Cambridge and Shepreth Branch Jn is busy with trains already.
     
  3. D365

    D365 Established Member

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    Not sure about other cities, but £30 gets you one week in Sheffield. If this is true, it's a bargain by comparison.
     
  4. eastdyke

    eastdyke Established Member

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    4 platforms, so yes actual tracks!
    @MarkyT proposed (IMO) a very elegant layout somewhere up-thread.
    From the consultation:
    I assume that this will establish a design and cost for the base case. It beggars belief that it would be built without full consideration of both if/how EWR will be implemented, the 4 tracking through to Cambridge, extra platforms at Cambridge (legacy) and all the potential services that the next 30+ years might bring.
    NR did publish discussion proposals for all of the latter, a link existed either on the EWR thread or the Cambridge-Newmarket thread but the link is now defunct :(. The proposals included partial doubling of Cambridge/Newmarket, turnback at Newmarket, thoughts of enhanced/relocated rolling stock facilities etc etc.
    Cambridge does become quite complex (and expensive). It's easy to see why the current consultation is basic in nature only.
     
  5. Class 170101

    Class 170101 Established Member

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    Thanks for pointing this out
    :E:E:E:E:E
     
  6. camflyer

    camflyer Member

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    I think this was the report: https://cdn.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Cambridgeshire-Corridor-Study-2019.pdf

    So, according to Network Rail there is no need to redouble any of the Newmarket line or add additional services until 2043
     
  7. eastdyke

    eastdyke Established Member

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    Thank you so much for that, good find. I just couldn't get there!
    Remember this is a basic DfT growth scenario. I and probably others believe that it is understated in which case Para 6.1.2 kicks in:
    And at this stage it is still a developing SOBC, it is a start.
    I think that integration with EWR Central Section (and the pending Western Section phase 2 come to that) will be a big headache and separating costs will be problematic. 6tph, plus perhaps 1tph freight firing to/from Marston Vale/Bletchley and with 8 car EWR trains possibly on the far horizon too.
    If all those Growth Arc homes do get built then 'The Railway' at Cambridge is going to be very very busy indeed :)
    Cheers!
     
  8. MarkyT

    MarkyT Established Member

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    Thanks! Had a look through the thread for it but no luck. Recreated and posting it again:
    cambridgesouth2.jpg
     
  9. eastdyke

    eastdyke Established Member

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    Sorry! might have been a bum steer, could have been the EWR thread.
    With 4-tracking through to Cambridge the 'crossovers' might go northside to offer utility, but not necessarily flexibility, at lesser cost?
     
  10. camflyer

    camflyer Member

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    The introduction of EWR (when it finally happens) will cause a significant change in behaviour making journeys become practical as zero or one change train rides which nobody in their right mind would currently consider taking by rail. That alone should push growth above the basic DfT scenario.
     
  11. Ianno87

    Ianno87 Established Member

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    Example: Milton Keynes - Cambridge South - over the bridge - Stansted Airport.
     
  12. 83A

    83A Member

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    I am watching this with interest. I live about 15 miles out of Cambridge and periodically work in London. Currently I have to cycle to Dullingham or Newmarket and then change at Cambridge. However the service to Newmarket is not brilliant esp in the evenings. It would be very useful to park at Cambridge south and pick up a train to London.

    Driving and parking at Cambridge (main) station is a no no unless you head in at 5am. Cambridge North is a pain due to the A14* and the Science Park traffic. So the idea of a south station where I can avoid the A14 or central Cambridge appeals.

    * Although maybe the A14 will improve when the current upgrade is complete, but I wont hold my breath!
     
  13. eastdyke

    eastdyke Established Member

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    Something new about EWR?
    Or perhaps Milton Keynes - Bletchley - under the high level subway - Cambridge South - over the bridge - Stansted Airport?
    Will also offer a much quicker route Cambridge - Birmingham and points North-West albeit with changes.
    Cambridge South is apparently not going to be encouraging outward commuting and no new car parks are proposed for that general purpose (blue badge excepted). The roads would just not cope.
     
  14. Ianno87

    Ianno87 Established Member

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    If you think the Science Park traffic is bad, you clearly haven't seen the traffic to Addenbrooke's and the Biomedical Campus each morning....

    Depending on where you are headed in London, is Whittlesford Parkway convenient?

    If you live in generic MK suburbia, a taxi/lift/Uber to Bletchley (in effect "Milton Keynes South") to pick up an EWR service may be just as convenient as getting to Milton Keynes Central.
     
  15. camflyer

    camflyer Member

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    I'm in a similar position and will often drive to Whittlesford Parkway to catch the Liverpool St service. Or sometimes Ely if I need to get into Kings Cross. Connecting back to Newmarket in the evening is just a pain.

    Increasing Cambridge to Newmarket services to 2tph would be a big help with this as would improving the parking provision at Newmarket which since Greater Anglia recently started charging the car park in now usually empty but the nearby residential streets full.
     
    Last edited: 23 Jan 2020
  16. 83A

    83A Member

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    Ha good point. I used to work on the science park so its burned in my memory. I must admit its very rare I would drive into Cambridge from the south, but I can imagine now you mention it, how bad it might be!

    I normally want to head to KGX or STP but when I do got to LST I prefer Audley End.

    At the moment I avoid Cambridge and drive to Ely or Royston and pick up the train for KGX....
     
  17. 83A

    83A Member

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    They really made a rod for themselves in Newmarket by building houses where the up line and island platform was. I cant see how they could expand Newmarket unless they buy back the old station building and the land in front of it, demolish it and start again.
     
  18. camflyer

    camflyer Member

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    I'm currently working on the Science Park. Getting onto the site in the morning usually isn't too bad. It's getting out of it in the evening which is hard when Milton and Kings Hedges roads are both backed up.

    I've turned down jobs at the Addenbrookes/BioMedical site as the commute would be too difficult what with the local roads and lack on site parking. When Cambridge South open it would make it more attractive.
     
  19. MikeWM

    MikeWM Member

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    Doesn't beggar my belief, unfortunately. In my opinion, the last 20-ish years in Cambridgeshire, and Cambridge in particular, have been a textbook example of doing occasional bits of stuff without any logical thought as to how it all fits together. Joined-up thinking doesn't seem to be done around here, any more than we have a joined-up transport network.

    There are of course about 20 different councils/groups/organisations/consultants that continue to 'investigate' how to solve travel issues and churn out pie-in-the-sky reports from time to time, which is a good way of burning through money without achieving much of anything worthwhile.
     
  20. MikeWM

    MikeWM Member

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    I think severe congestion is more consistent and reliable in the Addenbrookes area. The Science Park is more variable - it can be more-or-less ok, or it can be a complete disaster. I'm not sure adding extra traffic on Milton Road (the only vehicular access to Cambridge North) was/is exactly a good plan, however, especially as the Cowley Road/Science Park junction is, to put it nicely, a bit of a shambles.

    (Of course the nonsensical Fendon Road roundabout works are currently making the situation around Addenbrookes even worse than usual - though we've then got the delights of the Histon Road and Milton Road multi-year works about to begin, which will probably destroy traffic flows in the north of the city for the forseeable future).
     
  21. D365

    D365 Established Member

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    OT but I'm attending a talk tonight that is supposed to be relevant to the proposed "Cambridge Autonomous Metro" - case in point.
     
  22. eastdyke

    eastdyke Established Member

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    Proposals that are either not feasible or that are not affordable tend not to progress. When both those apply then they don't get further than the talking. You are right Cambridge has had a lot of that.
    For rail, Cambridge continues to benefit from P7/P8 and Cambridge North has been built, projects that fit in very well indeed with future plans.
     
  23. camflyer

    camflyer Member

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    The whole area around Milton Rd/Cowley Rd junction needs flattening and building from scratch otherwise I dread to think what things will be like when the Cambridge North and waterworks developments are complete. As you say, having a single road in and out of the site is asking for trouble.

    There are a lot of business and academic link between the Science Park and Addenbrookes sites but trying to get from one to the other ontime for a meeting is next to impossible without leaving a couple of hours safety margin. If Cambridge South can really connect the two biggest growth areas of the city then it will be worth every penny.
     
  24. cle

    cle Established Member

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    What might be a theoretical frequency of through trains between Cambridge North and South?

    I could definitely see four tracking from South to 'Central' being very useful, and enabling parallel running and pathing options. I could also see another platform at North too, there is space and already running lines.
     
  25. Class 170101

    Class 170101 Established Member

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    Not sure XC will stop there, they don't stop at Cambridge North today. So you would have to hope the connections work well with the Norwich to Stansted service.
     
  26. PG

    PG Member

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    IIRC Ian Walmsley did a piece in Modern Railways taking a swing at various entities which investigate 'this/that or the other problem' and then eventually produce a report which doesn't answer said problem but suggests a further investigation is required.

    He concluded that it wasn't in their own interest to reach a conclusion as that would likely mean they'd fulfilled their purpose and thus no further funding would be available so they'd cease to exist - kind of like writing your own P45 :!:
     
  27. eastdyke

    eastdyke Established Member

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    And then there is the so called 'political imperative'.
    Minister: Humphrey we could be caught out here. We must avoid at all costs both making a decision and spending any large amount of money. What do we do?
    Sir Humphrey: Call for another report Minister?
    YES!!
     
  28. eastdyke

    eastdyke Established Member

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    Sorry, yes pedant mode engaged.
    I generally think 'how can I do this on public transport?' And from parts like Stony Stratford then I might struggle. I fully take your point for one-off airport runs.
    [As we know, EWR is partly conceived as a commuter railway, for whom it needs to be easy to use. But that is for another thread.]
     
  29. camflyer

    camflyer Member

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    Yes, if I was given some god-like powers that is the first thing I would do. Newmarket copes OK with a single platform 2 train per hour service but increase that (as planned) to 4 tph and then if the West Curve is ever reopened to allow services to Soham and Ely then the station will really need to expand - and there is an old station building with plentiful land right next door to it. As I understand from reports the main problem is that the ownership of the land and building is a "complex matter" of multiple parties being involved.

    If done properly, a redevelopment of the area with a nice station building, parking, local bugs connections would be a fantastic gateway to the town. There's probably even space for a hotel and retail to help fund the work.
     

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