Proposed May 2014 timetable changes (Manchester area)

Discussion in 'Allocations, Diagrams & Timetables' started by jcollins, 15 Oct 2013.

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  1. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    A summary of what I've noticed:
    * Liverpool to Stalybridge service set to be truncated at Victoria - options for replacement service for Stalybridge being examined.
    * Blackpool North to Victoria service to run to Huddersfield (but no through service in reverse with a Huddersfield-Wigan service instead.)
    * 1tph Liverpool to Victoria to Newcastle and 1tph Airport to York service (standard pattern) in lieu of 1tph Airport to Newcastle (standard pattern) - Newcastle to continue to get a limited direct Airport service.
    * A Rochdale service extended to Todmorden (reversing on re-opened Todmorden curve. Burnley-Manchester service to start in December 2014 due to Northern not being able to source additional rolling stock in time for May 2014.)
    * New 05:40 Blackpool – Manchester and 06:50 Manchester – Preston Northern Rail services to replace withdrawn TPE services.
    * 15:33 Hazel Grove – Preston and 17:23 from Preston to Hazel Grove services to get extra capacity.
    * Peak time Barrow to Manchester Airport morning services and evening Manchester Airport to Barrow services to remain.

    Further details here: http://www.transportforgreatermanch...il_service_changes_december_2013_and_may_2014
     
  2. Paul Sidorczuk

    Paul Sidorczuk Veteran Member

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    Will Ashton-under-Lyne railway station see a reduced level of service ?
     
  3. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    In the linked pdf TfGM make the point that not that long ago it went to a 3tph frequency instead of a 2tph frequency. They suggest pros and cons of alternatives like the Southport-Victoria service running to Stalybridge which is dismissed and a Stalybridge-Victoria shuttle, which TfGM state is the most viable option but it will cause operating costs to increase.
     
    Last edited: 17 Oct 2013
  4. LNW-GW Joint

    LNW-GW Joint Established Member

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    Sounds like the Liverpool-Stalybridge will be cut back to Victoria permanently.
    In my casual use it seems a poor performer east of Newton-le-Willows, though 1tph isn't attractive.
    The new Liverpool-Victoria-Newcastle service is being introduced at a period of maximum dislocation and lack of facilities at Victoria, and during electrification works and Metrolink rebuilding.
    It's a grim place at the moment (even more than it was).
    It won't be popular with users changing there, compared to Piccadilly.

    Lack of mention of south Manchester must mean no changes there.
    I am amazed how much management time goes into these relatively simple changes.
    And all to be thrown in the mincer if devolution of the new franchises goes ahead.
     
  5. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    Well with no extra rolling stock for Northern expected until December 2014 and the existing units likely to be needed to work a bit harder from May 2014 due to changes as a result of the new TPE timetable, I doubt Northern could change South Manchester. The lack of extra stock for a Burnley-Manchester service to start straight away would also mean no stock for a new Stockport-Victoria service, for instance.
     
  6. Dunc108

    Dunc108 Member

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    Well the quicker they get Victoria sorted the better, the TPE service is just the tip of the iceberg; when the Ordsall Curve opens they'll be a damn site more TPE traffic over Miles Platting!
     
  7. WatcherZero

    WatcherZero Established Member

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    In the near term the only changes to South Manchester services would be to capacity, that in the next couple of years Northern might have enough electrics that they no longer have to regularly substitute a diesel and most airport services would get longer and enjoy the fourth platform at the Airport.

    In the more distant future you never know, the Airport Western Link may make an appearance in Cp6 or Cp7, that would shake up South Manchester and Cheshire services quite fundamentally.
     
  8. gnolife

    gnolife Established Member

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    Will the Liverpool - Piccadilly - Stalybridge - Scarborough service remain, or it the Liverpool - Newcastle service replacing that as well?
     
  9. Dunc108

    Dunc108 Member

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    The Liverpool - Scarborough stays the same from my understanding.
     
  10. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

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    They could do with addressing the abysmal state of sunday evening services eminating from Victoria. Everything seems to grind to a halt by about nine.
     
  11. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    Yes that remains until North TPE goes 6tph (with 2tph Liverpool-Victoria-Newcastle) which is post-Ordsall Chord. The expectation is that Liverpool-Warrington-Sheffield will go half-hourly after Liverpool-Scarborough goes.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    The 'South Manchester' schemes listed under the Northern Hub are:
    1. Additional hourly Greenbank-Stockport service.
    2. New hourly Stockport-Denton-Victoria service (could be an extension of 1 rather than a stand-alone service.)
    3. Liverpool-Buxton stopping service via CLC (not really possible to implement pre-Ordsall Chord.)
    4. Hazel Grove terminators possibly extended to Sheffield, Chinley or Buxton, subject to business case. (Given Hazel Grove to Preston could become an electric service in 2018 I imagine Preston services would be diverted to an alternative 'South Manchester' destination.)

    There's also a proposal from a Network Rail RUS to extend the Stoke stopper to Birmingham via Stone alongside other changes.

    Obviously all the above require additional rolling stock or infrastructure which is not yet available.

    I understand that consideration was given to extending the Airport spur when the additional platforms at the Airport station were put in.

    If you look at all the proposals from different parties involving the Mid-Cheshire line then it'll probably give you a headache when you try to work out how they will fit together:
    1. Crewe to Middlewich, Northwich and beyond service.
    2. Tram-trains between central Manchester and Northwich/Greenbank via Sale.
    3. Additional Greenbank-Stockport trains.
    4. Western Airport link.
    5. Half-hourly Altrincham-Stockport service with new Metrolink interchange at Baguley and possible station at Cheadle.

    In the short term though we can safely say 3 is likely to go ahead in the next few years with 1 being a possibility and the rest are long term aspirations.

    A more immediate concern is the level of overcrowding on the 07:17 Manchester-Chester which desperately needs to become 4 car unless an c.08:00 Stockport-Greenbank service can be added.
     
  12. cle

    cle Established Member

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    Might they also look at the level crossing in Hale? When a train is in, it's down for at least 4-5 minutes.
     
  13. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    I think the level crossing at Navigation Road is more of an issue. Hale gets at most 3 passenger trains per hour currently, Navigation Road gets 20 trams per hour and up to 3 passenger trains per hour.
     
  14. Dunc108

    Dunc108 Member

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    Well, at least it's got Blackpool & Wigan diagrams now on a Sunday, didn't even have those till a few years back! :lol:
     
  15. Thomas6187

    Thomas6187 Member

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    I wonder if the TfGM are trying to make people in the Moston area use the Tram instead of the Train. The trains been reduced to 1tph and almost half during the peak hours.
     
  16. Paul Sidorczuk

    Paul Sidorczuk Veteran Member

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    Moston people using the tram...:shock:

    Please be so kind as to examine an area map of Moston and whilst the Metrolink stop of Newton Heath and Moston serves the border area of Moston that adjoins Newton Heath, a vast area of Moston is nowhere whatsoever near to that tram stop. Nor is this area anywhere near the railway station on Hollinwood Avenue that is on the northern area border to Chadderton. Can you honestly expect the good citizens of Moston to forsake their existing bus services to use either the train or the tram?
     
  17. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    Update on Stalybridge

    The highlighted bit being the most surprising given it changes the May 2014 timetable that TPE have had approved by ORR.

    http://www.transportforgreatermanch..._stalybridge_and_ashton_off_peak_rail_service
     
    Last edited: 12 Dec 2013
  18. WatcherZero

    WatcherZero Established Member

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    Looks like they sucessfully persuaded TPE, they were previously saying they didnt want to stop at Stalybridge as the time penalty to other passengers outweighed the extra revenue.

    Also unsurprisingly says that Northerns revenue forecasting unit is currently swamped with work calculating the service and travel patterns for future electric services.


    In other news Northern are applying to the Dft to destrengthen a couple of services to provide extra Bolton capacity reducing the capacity loss from 8% to 5% though TfGM doesnt want this to be a permanent loss to the services destrengthened and to operate on days when crowding is predicted to be bad not as a fixed arrangement. Northern has also finished their calculation on Bolton crowding post TPE change and they believe that while some of the busiest services may be 98% full that no services would be over capacity and that the busiest services have spare capacity on the preceding and succeeding services.
     
    Last edited: 12 Dec 2013
  19. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    It also involves tweaks to some Northern Rail services through Guide Bridge by a couple of minutes to avoid a clash with the re-timed Hull-Manchester service.

    Apparently from May 2014 there's going to be 3 x 185 diagrams on Hull services, 1 x 2 car 170 diagram and 1 x 4 car 170 diagram, so combined with the additional TPE service there's less of an argument of there being no room on the TPE services for Stalybridge passengers.
     
  20. cle

    cle Established Member

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    I guess they are teeing it up in people's perceptions that the fastest trains in future will indeed be from Victoria (heading both west and east), and Piccadilly will be more the semi-fasts doing Stalybridge, Dewsbury, Birchwood etc.
     
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