Prosectution - sitting in first class with a standard ticket

[donmar1]

Please help,

I have been issued with a summons to appear at the magistrates court. I sat in First class with a standard ticket as the train was crowded and I was feeling unwell. I offered to pay the fine but was told I would be cautioned instead. The summons says I occupied a seat, berth or train when a notice indicated that it is reserved for a specific ticket holder contrary to section 19 of the Railway Byelaws". I am really scared as I have to travel to the US for work and am worried that I will have issues at Border Control. I have tried to call them but to no avail. The costs applied for are £110. Should I just send a cheque for more and plead for them to accept it? I don't know what to do.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Oh dear, that must have been an unwelcome letter.

First, we should be clear that the details on the letter you've received are factually correct and you were sitting in First Class.
Second, we must be clear that this was a train which is advertised as having both First and Standard Class accomodation. That check requires knowing exactly which train service you were travelling on - you can look it up yourself in the Company's timetable if you don't want to post that info. publically on here. (Guards may inadvertently treat passengers in First Class like this just because the signage for First is clearly on the train, but if it isn't an advertised feature in the Timetable then its technically not there, and to sit in First on a Standard ticket would not be an Offence)

The Byelaw Offence you have been accused of would not leave you with a Criminal Record (as a contravention of the Byelaws are not Crimes) and admission should not appear in the Police National Computer (PNC), though if you contested it and it went to Triail I'm told that these have sometimes then appeared in the PNC although they should not.

You mention that you were unwell. If you have (or had at the time) a serious medical condition then you may feel that it is adequately acute to ask your Doctor for an explanatory letter and to send that as a mitigating factor which you would wish the Train Company to consider with a view to excusing your 'Offence', again, you may not want to post details of a health issue on here. I'll leave you to evaluate that yourself.
Otherwise, I'd write as you've suggested with an apology and ask for a settlement to bring it to a quick, and hopefully, stress-free, conclusion. I have assumed that this is the first time that you have been accused of any wrongdoing on the Railway and that there is no record of prior 'mistakes', if so, you should say so. You could also add that it will be the last time (and try in future to keep it that way). You may not get a reply straight away, some Companies are taking weeks and even months to process ticketing matters at present, but some simpler matters appear to be fast-tracked, presumably just to dispose of them from an otherwise large pile!

In short, my advice then is to make a quick check of the 3 factors I've mentioned and write back soon with your payment and apology. If there's anything else to check first, I know that others on here will be prompt in adding their thoughts.

 

[cuccir]

Comprehensive advice from Dave. In particular, follow up his second point and make sure that the train you were on was advertised as having a first class section: it probably will, but in some parts of the country there have been issues with regards to this.

Other than that, I'd just reinforce that if you can afford to pay, then offer to do so quickly and chalk it up to experience!

 

[furryfeet]

What TOC was this ?
I find it puzzling that the guard did not say first "pay the upgrade to 1st class, or move into a 2nd class compartment", instead of launching into the caution/summons mode ?

Is the latter now the norm on the railways ?

 

[HH]

What TOC was this ?
I find it puzzling that the guard did not say first "pay the upgrade to 1st class, or move into a 2nd class compartment", instead of launching into the caution/summons mode ?

Is the latter now the norm on the railways ?

Not as far as I'm aware. Sounds like either he got a jobsworth, or this particular TOC has its own guidelines on this situation.

What has not been said is whether there were second class seats available elsewhere on the train. You might think the Ticket Inspector would be less sympathetic if that were the case.

 

[scotsman]

What TOC was this ?
I find it puzzling that the guard did not say first "pay the upgrade to 1st class, or move into a 2nd class compartment", instead of launching into the caution/summons mode ?

Is the latter now the norm on the railways ?

It could have been a TOC that only has/a majority of trains are DOO (eg. Southeastern, FCC, NXEA) - passengers on these trains are only subject to ticket inspections when RPIs board. Some RPIs tend to go down harshly on such behaviour (regardless of honest mistakes)

 

[Paul Kelly]

Somebody pointed out in another thread recently that for driver-only operated trains, where on-train ticket checks are rare, the TOC really needs to prosecute people travelling in first class in order for it to be an effective deterrent. If there was no more of a penalty than an excess fare or being asked to move, and only rarely ticket checks, then lots of people would chance it all the time.

 

[NJTom]

It will not be an issue with US border control.

 

[exile]

Somebody pointed out in another thread recently that for driver-only operated trains, where on-train ticket checks are rare, the TOC really needs to prosecute people travelling in first class in order for it to be an effective deterrent. If there was no more of a penalty than an excess fare or being asked to move, and only rarely ticket checks, then lots of people would chance it all the time.

That ignores the possible mitigating factor ie the OP's state of health at the time. I suppose the conductor could have thought the OP was "trying it on" and decided to go for the prosecution.

 

[Old Timer]

Not as far as I'm aware. Sounds like either he got a jobsworth, or this particular TOC has its own guidelines on this situation.

What has not been said is whether there were second class seats available elsewhere on the train. You might think the Ticket Inspector would be less sympathetic if that were the case.

Such an action would normally be the result of having broadcast a warning about using First Class, or as has already been pointed out, a zero tolerance approach.

It is highly unusual for a RPI/Guard to resort immediately to a TIR without some sort of underlying cause for it.

I suspect there is more to this story than may be given at this stage, as in the situation I doubt that the Magistrates would wish to proceed and may indicate so to the Prosecution before the case starts and suggest they reconsider. Such things do happen when a Magistrate feels that the case is "unfair".

 

[Squaddie]

Why should a passenger caught in first class with a second class ticket be offered the opportunity simply to move back into second class? Where's the incentive to obey the rules in the first place? There needs to be a penalty - and it's irrelevant how full second class is.

 

[RJ]

What TOC was this ?
I find it puzzling that the guard did not say first "pay the upgrade to 1st class, or move into a 2nd class compartment", instead of launching into the caution/summons mode ?

Is the latter now the norm on the railways ?

It's odd how often this "unwell" excuse props up. Presumably anyone well enough to make it onto a station and onto the train is also well enough to pay a visit to the ticket office (or TVM) to get a First Class ticket. It's quite a poor excuse and probably seen regularly by the prosecutions department. To this day, I have never dared to take a seat in 1st Class without being permitted to do so, so feel very little sympathy for anyone who gets punished for it.

It appears that people here are looking for a technicality to get the OP off - somehow, I doubt that once the report is received by the TOC's prosecution department, they would allow it to proceed if it was on a declassified train.

 

[yorkie]

What TOC was this ?

A TOC with a Buy before you board / Penalty Fare scheme, no doubt!

I find it puzzling that the guard did not say first "pay the upgrade to 1st class, or move into a 2nd class compartment", instead of launching into the caution/summons mode ?

I suspect the OP travelled on a train without a guard, and was quite possibly approached by an RPI. Very little information has been provided. See Huddersfield [HUD] - Manchester Piccadilly [MAN] - Buying 1st or Std ticket on board for an example where the guard will be happy to either sell on board, or upgrade on board. This is quite different to the sort of service the OP will have travelled on.

Is the latter now the norm on the railways ?

The situation varies massively by TOC. There isn't a "norm" across all railways.

The OP has not revealed which TOC it was, but my first guess would be FCC, though others are possible (e.g. NXEA), it's amazing how common this question is asked, there are numerous threads on this forum basically asking for the same advice.

I note the OP has already offered to pay the fine, however a Court must determine the level of the fine. It may be better to settle out of court. As others have said, this isn't a recordable offence.

 

[bengolding]

Why should a passenger caught in first class with a second class ticket be offered the opportunity simply to move back into second class? Where's the incentive to obey the rules in the first place? There needs to be a penalty - and it's irrelevant how full second class is.

Hear hear. Whilst I sympathise with the OP, commuter rail operators such as this need to take a zero tolerance approach with reagrds to people sitting in First Class with Standard tickets, unless they are pregnant or are disabled. The OP must have known he was sitting in First Class and chancing it but got caught this time. Simply getting a telling off is inappropriate as the TOC needs to send a warning to others.

 

[Mojo]

Please let's not get into the debate of the rights and wrongs of the approach taken. This is how a number of threads posted by people asking for advice in the past few days have gone wrong. The OP has come here for advice, so let's leave it at that.

 

[Southern]

Since the OP didn't say what TOC he was using, we don't know for sure it wasn't declassified. A picture of the LDB at the station would help.

 

[CompactDstrxion]

OP, do you hold a season ticket? If so, was a manned ticket office open at your station of departure so you could purchase an excess before boarding?

Assuming no mitigating circumstances then definitely write and make a full written apology to the train company, take responsibility for sitting in First without a valid ticket. Don't say 'I was unwell' because it will look like a weak excuse considering you could still have bought a valid ticket. Bear in mind the train company has no way of knowing you aren't a serial offender and this isn't simply (presumably) the first time you've been caught.