Prosecutor settlement

Footynatic

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21 Mar 2021
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Hi guys,

I've read a lot of suggestions on here about occasions whereby a court summons is called for fare evasion having failed to negotiate a settlement prior to the court date, but then managing to settle directly before the case with the prosecutor.
I was interested if anybody, and if so how many of you, have had first hand experience of this? Or if anybody had experienced the opposite in a failed attempt on the day?

It'd be great to hear your story.
Cheers
 
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Darandio

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No haha apologies, I admit I did write it like one though! I’m in the early stages of one and expecting a letter off TIC, and have read how tough it can be to convince them prior

Ahh, no worries. In that case it's probably worth looking at the forum guidance and posting a few more details in order for those here to give a much more informed reply. The information you are asking for will depend entirely on the circumstances.
 

Hadders

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Hi guys,

I've read a lot of suggestions on here about occasions whereby a court summons is called for fare evasion having failed to negotiate a settlement prior to the court date, but then managing to settle directly before the case with the prosecutor.
I was interested if anybody, and if so how many of you, have had first hand experience of this? Or if anybody had experienced the opposite in a failed attempt on the day?

It'd be great to hear your story.
Cheers

Welcome to the forum. It would be helpful if you could post details of what has happened so that we can advise.
 

Footynatic

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Hi,

thanks for reading my post, I have attached correspondence in this post regarding my situation.

it was worth me stating now that I have read many posts regarding similar situations of failing to present a valid ticket, and accept I am at full liability for this, im very sorry, and also that there is some darn good advice being given here.

I plan for my next reply to be a draft of my response (of which I will take into consideration some of the advice seen in posts). the purpose of my post, is purely to see if anybody would be kind enough to give some helpful advice on my response.

many thanks,
 

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Fawkes Cat

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the purpose of my post, is purely to see if anybody would be kind enough to give some helpful advice on my response.
Certainly we will. Post what you’re planning to send (missing out anything that will identify you) and we will happily comment.

If you’re struggling to get started, @Hadders gives some excellent advice - at https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/gwr-reported-for-prosecution.217815/#post-5150616 for example. Read that and it will suggest the sort of things you need to say.
 

Footynatic

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What is the date on the letter, and what was the date of the offence?
Hi alter ego, I blacked them out for the purpose of detail anonymity, however I can confirm the incidents were roughly 4 months apart.

Certainly we will. Post what you’re planning to send (missing out anything that will identify you) and we will happily comment.

If you’re struggling to get started, @Hadders gives some excellent advice - at https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/gwr-reported-for-prosecution.217815/#post-5150616 for example. Read that and it will suggest the sort of things you need to say.
Hi Fawkes Cat, thanks for the response.
This is what i have so far as a first go, any thoughts at all are appreciated, will take them constructively. With it being sunday tomorrow, I will aim to get my final draft sent off Monday. Thanks!

DRAFT 1:

"This letter is in response to the contact I have enclosed in this envelope, highlighting the events of X XX 2021. I can confirm that the contact details provided were correct and, regrettably, it was myself that was involved on this date.

I would firstly like to stress just how sorry I am that this incident occurred, the rail service has been very helpful to me throughout my time at university and I am in full agreement with the simple fact that it is the responsibility of the passenger always to ensure they can provide a valid ticket.

It is with great regret that this situation arose, and having researched since, I am aware of the detrimental effects that lost revenue for Crosscountry can have on both the services they provide and the staff they employ. I have learnt the upmost significance of always being able to provide a valid ticket, no matter the circumstances, and on journeys since and moving forward, I intend to always allow the appropriate amount of time to ensure that I have the correct ticket.

I fully intend to co-operate in correcting this issue, and would like to offer to pay for the full price of the ticket along with any administrative costs incurred during the handling of this case, as well as vowing to never be involved in such dealings again. I am sure you understand my desire to settle this case without the need for any court action, as a newly graduated student who has just started a career in finance, any such dealings would be catastrophic to my career.

May I also add for the purpose of response to this letter, that any further correspondence be sent to the address I will list below, due to me now having moved out of my university address that the original letter was sent to, of which I was able to intercept.

Kind Regards,"
 
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ta-toget

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Hi alter ego, I blacked them out for the purpose of detail anonymity, however I can confirm the incidents were roughly 4 months apart.[…]
It says in the letter you need to respond within 21 days of the date of the letter. How long ago was the letter dated / are you still in time to respond? (Bearing in mind postage time, for which it would be sensible to allow 5 working days, though it's very possible any reply will arrive with them sooner than that.)
 

Fawkes Cat

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Hi alter ego, I blacked them out for the purpose of detail anonymity, however I can confirm the incidents were roughly 4 months apart.


Hi Fawkes Cat, thanks for the response.
This is what i have so far as a first go, any thoughts at all are appreciated, will take them constructively. With it being sunday tomorrow, I will aim to get my final draft sent off Monday. Thanks!

DRAFT 1:

"This letter is in response to the contact I have enclosed in this envelope, highlighting the events of X XX 2021. I can confirm that the contact details provided were correct and, regrettably, it was myself that was involved on this date.

I would firstly like to stress just how sorry I am that this incident occurred, the rail service has been very helpful to me throughout my time at university and I am in full agreement with the simple fact that it is the responsibility of the passenger always to ensure they can provide a valid ticket.

It is with great regret that this situation arose, and having researched since, I am aware of the detrimental effects that lost revenue for Crosscountry can have on both the services they provide and the staff they employ. I have learnt the utmost significance of always being able to provide a valid ticket, no matter the circumstances, and on journeys since and moving forward, I intend to will always allow the appropriate amount of time to ensure that I have the correct ticket.

I fully intend to will fully co-operate in correcting this issue, and would like to offer to pay for the full price of the ticket along with any administrative costs incurred during the handling of this case, as well as vowing to never be involved in such dealings again. I am sure you understand my desire to settle this case without the need for any court action, as a newly graduated student who has just started a career in finance, any such dealings would be catastrophic to my career.

May I also add for the purpose of response to this letter, that any further correspondence be sent to the address I will list below, due to me now having moved out of my university address that the original letter was sent to, of which I was able to intercept.

Kind Regards,"
I’ve made a few suggestions above. Basically it’s OK, but the railway won’t care if a conviction will mess up your life So there’s no point in mentioning it.

At the risk of being overly personal, is the style of your response how you normally write? If so, that’s fine - but it does read rather like someone trying to be formal for the sake of it. It’s good that you are trying to show respect to the person who will read the letter - but another good way of showing respect is writing in plain, simple and clear English. “I am sorry that this happened” is just as respectful as “It is with great regret that this situation arose” so use whatever form of words comes naturally to you.
 

Footynatic

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It says in the letter you need to respond within 21 days of the date of the letter. How long ago was the letter dated / are you still in time to respond? (Bearing in mind postage time, for which it would be sensible to allow 5 working days, though it's very possible any reply will arrive with them sooner than that.)
Yes it’s within the date, got plenty of time, thanks for the concern though

I’ve made a few suggestions above. Basically it’s OK, but the railway won’t care if a conviction will mess up your life So there’s no point in mentioning it.

At the risk of being overly personal, is the style of your response how you normally write? If so, that’s fine - but it does read rather like someone trying to be formal for the sake of it. It’s good that you are trying to show respect to the person who will read the letter - but another good way of showing respect is writing in plain, simple and clear English. “I am sorry that this happened” is just as respectful as “It is with great regret that this situation arose” so use whatever form of words comes naturally to you.
Hi fawkes cat, thanks for the edit, appreciate it.

yeah I can see that to be fair, I’ve been writing formal essays for my uni work for a few years so it’s prob just been drilled into me haha. You’re probably right, it’s not needed
 

Footynatic

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Hi again all, I’ve received my response letter and it’s along the lines of what is usually expected I think.

I did incorporate the changes suggested above, any suggestions for a response would be appreciated!

thanks,
 

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Nipa

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My suggestion would be to be more specific to the incident. You’ve just said you’re sorry for travelling with an invalid ticket. What exactly happened? What ticket did u use? What ticket should you have used? Where were you travelling to etc etc
 

skyhigh

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My suggestion would be to be more specific to the incident. You’ve just said you’re sorry for travelling with an invalid ticket. What exactly happened? What ticket did u use? What ticket should you have used? Where were you travelling to etc etc
I'm not sure that would be much help - they know all those details already.

From previous threads regarding TIL, I suggest you'd be better off replying again emphasising that you know what you did was wrong, it won't happen again and that you're willing to pay any costs to resolve the incident. Be aware though that they may well again refuse to offer an out of court settlement again, and you might have to talk to the prosecutor on the day of the hearing to discuss a settlement.
 

30907

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TIL have reported two specific allegations
- failure to produce a valid ticket
- failure to pay the fare
IF you were offered the opportunity to pay by the inspector (which is how I read the letter, but may not be the case) then you need to reply to the second claim.

Please be careful not to incriminate yourself in any reply on here - in fact, only reply if you want specific advice :)
 

Haywain

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It's often been seen on here to be the case that TIL need to see two letters before a settlement is offered. I would suggest another letter similar to the first, emphasising that what you did was wrong and you would like to reach a settlement, paying the fare and costs incurred, to avoid the matter going to court.
 

Footynatic

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Hi all, thanks for all the advice I’ll try catch up now.
My suggestion would be to be more specific to the incident. You’ve just said you’re sorry for travelling with an invalid ticket. What exactly happened? What ticket did u use? What ticket should you have used? Where were you travelling to etc etc
Thanks nipa, but as others have suggested after I’m not sure if it’s worth it in the letter, both i and they know the details and none of that is in question now really, thanks anyway.
I'm not sure that would be much help - they know all those details already.

From previous threads regarding TIL, I suggest you'd be better off replying again emphasising that you know what you did was wrong, it won't happen again and that you're willing to pay any costs to resolve the incident. Be aware though that they may well again refuse to offer an out of court settlement again, and you might have to talk to the prosecutor on the day of the hearing to discuss a settlement.
Thanks, yeah this is what I will try, I never expected to be accepted on my 1st attempt, just makes it feel very real when you actually read it for yourself.
TIL have reported two specific allegations
- failure to produce a valid ticket
- failure to pay the fare
IF you were offered the opportunity to pay by the inspector (which is how I read the letter, but may not be the case) then you need to reply to the second claim.

Please be careful not to incriminate yourself in any reply on here - in fact, only reply if you want specific advice :)
Regarding the opportunity to pay a fare, the inspector asked me if I hadn’t been stopped today if I would’ve intended to pay the missed fare, to which I answered yes, this felt like they were trying to help me, unless you have any different theories? I also don’t know whether mentioning this in my letter would do me any favours? I know it suggests I was willing to pay the fare but at this stage I’m only interested in apologising and reaching a suitable outcome.
It's often been seen on here to be the case that TIL need to see two letters before a settlement is offered. I would suggest another letter similar to the first, emphasising that what you did was wrong and you would like to reach a settlement, paying the fare and costs incurred, to avoid the matter going to court.
Thanks, as I said above I’ll get on this tonight.
 

30907

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Regarding the opportunity to pay a fare, the inspector asked me if I hadn’t been stopped today if I would’ve intended to pay the missed fare, to which I answered yes, this felt like they were trying to help me, unless you have any different theories? I also don’t know whether mentioning this in my letter would do me any favours?
It is a standard question - and catches people out.
If you told them that you would have intended to pay the fare, that is IMO in your favour and worth mentioning - especially if the inspector recorded your answer.
 

Footynatic

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Hi,

This is just a rough draft, and i'm sure there's improvements/fixes that you guys will be able to help with, and i'd appreciate that. Two things before i post:

1) The context behind the 2nd para is that they sent my response letter to the wrong address, as you may see way back above i did request a different address but this was not followed, leaving the current reply way outside the 14 day period, I know this isn't my fault but i sincerely hope this isn't held against me, although i do understand that it is not ideal

2) I know many on hear say not to mention jobs/uni etc, I've put it in purely to see if there's a way i can word it politely without going sobstory, however I appreciate your honesty and if you think i should remove it, please tell me, just trying to give myself the best chance at this point.

Anyway, here it is, will edit tomorrow, thanks.

Dear Elaine Ashby / whom it may concern,

Reference TIL: xxxxx

This is a follow up to both the letter I recently posted, dated xxxx, regarding not having received a letter that you posted to me, and also your letter which I was eventually able to recieve that you posted on the xxxx.

As the above suggests, I have now received a copy of your letter on the morning of the xxxx, as I suspected the it was sent to the wrong address as you can see on the copy I enclose in this envelope. I sincerely hope that the delayed timing of this issue is not held against me, as I am extremely keen to engage with you and resolve this issue, and would have responded much sooner had your contact been sent to the address that I requested.

Once again, I would like to whole-heartedly apologise for not being able to provide a valid ticket when requested, I fully agree that it was my responsibility to do provide a ticket and I feel awful that I was not able to do so. I am unsure if in your response regarding ‘failed to pay the fare’ suggests I refused to when asked, however I can say when asked by the inspector if I had the intent and will to pay for the ticket if I had not been stopped, I honestly informed them that of course I would and wished to pay the fare, of which if you have a copy of her notes, I’m sure this would confirm this.

That said, I am still extremely sorry for this to have happened, and apologise to all involved including Crosscountry as a business, their staff, and yourself as their agents. I fully accept that my actions were wrong and I will never be involved in any issues with Crosscountry or any other trainline again, and hope that with this apology you will consider my proposal to reach a settlement, fully covering the fare and any costs you have incurred in this investigation in order to resolve this matter.

I hope that by reaching a settlement I can put right my mistake with Crosscountry, whilst also avoiding the impacts of court for my life post-university. I promise that this is completely out of character, and will never cause any issues again.

Can I stress again that my address has changed, and I require contact sending to the below address, any sent to the old address I will have zero access to.




Kind Regards,
 

Footynatic

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Not from a legal point of view, but to me this reads well, humble and sincere.
Thanks, that was certainly the intention.

less rail related and more advice here, I’m considering letting my boss know about this situation, I’m 3 months into my new job, starting a career in finance after uni, and if worse case scenario and convicted I would have to disclose, which with working in finance could be an issue.

Am I acting too soon here and potentially causing more issues for myself than worth or does anybody think being open about the situation could help my chances?
 

Fawkes Cat

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less rail related and more advice here, I’m considering letting my boss know about this situation, I’m 3 months into my new job, starting a career in finance after uni, and if worse case scenario and convicted I would have to disclose, which with working in finance could be an issue.

Am I acting too soon here and potentially causing more issues for myself than worth or does anybody think being open about the situation could help my chances?
It would be useful if you could know in advance what sort of response you'll get from your management. So try and ask around your workplace first: ideally, you'll be in a trade union and you'll be able to ask your rep/shop steward for advice.

Unless the feedback you get is that your employer will dismiss even for being investigated for matters like this, then my advice in general would be to mention it sooner rather than later, when you can explain what steps you are taking to (a) make sure that you don't get convicted and (b) not to run into the problem again. If you can get your employer to understand that you made a mistake, and it's not that you are systematically untrustworthy but that you are learning from that mistake, and you want to be honest with your employer then it may very well be possible to make sure that this has no impact on your job.
 

30907

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As this is a one-off (which both TIL and you are saying), I would expect any employer to be unfazed, even in finance. But definitely tell them, even if your enquiries suggest it will lead to trouble, if you end up going to court.
 

MotCO

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It is infinitely better to tell your manager in case he finds out from another source - that would not look good and could be seen as deception. But accept that you are better placed to assess whether @Fawkes Cat call on outcomes takes precedence.
 

ta-toget

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I'm not sure if you've already sent it, @Footynatic, but if you haven't, I'd leave out "whom it may concern" from the beginning. You've got a name to address it to, so it's not necessary (in my opinion), even if it ends up being read and dealt with by someone else. Unless, of course, other people disagree with me.

Anyway, I tend to use "Sir or Madam" when I don't know who it's addressed to, but that's probably more down to personal preference.
 

Hadders

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I agree with @Haywain in that it appears to be standard practice for TIL to want two letters. It's almost as if they deliberately set out to make people sweat...
 

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