Prototype HST Power Car 41001 to return to York

254024

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News from 125 Group

www.125group.org.uk

125 Group is very sad to announce that unique Prototype Power Car 41001 will be returning to its owner, the National Railway Museum at York in early November, at the end of the current operating agreement. Despite best efforts, 125 Group and the Science Museum Group have been unable to reach a new agreement and the Science Museum Group has made the decision to terminate the loan.

41001 has been on a considerable journey in the 8 years since 125 Group took custodianship and, under Project Miller, restored the vehicle from a static exhibit to full working order. The power car has operated successfully for almost 5 years, regularly hauling public passenger trains at its home railway Great Central Railway (Nottingham), plus numerous visits to other preserved railways around the UK.

We are grateful to the National Railway Museum for having the foresight and confidence in us, allowing 125 Group to take 41001 on loan and bring her back to life, and are very disappointed that the work undertaken by us will no longer be of use in the future.

Sincere thank you to all of our members, hard working volunteers and loyal supporters who have generously given their own time and funded our operation of 41001. We remain indebted to the multitude of companies in the Railway Industry who have provided substantial valuable help and expert advice which made restoration possible, we are eternally grateful. Thanks also to our hosts throughout 41001’s operations, Great Central Railway (Nottingham).

125 Group was formed 25 years ago with the long term objective of preserving the HST. We already own, maintain and operate a small fleet of Mk3 coaches and hope to acquire at least one Production Power Car in the near future to continue our journey in preservation.
 
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Edders23

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In other words thank you very much for all your hard work but it isn't flying moneypit so it isn't allowed to actually run
 

theblackwatch

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Very disappointing news, given the amount of work that has gone in to returning it to traffic - and a very professional announcement from the 125 Group (which is what I would expect). Hopefully it won't be too long before the 125 Group has its own power cars to restore and operate.
 

northernbelle

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A real shame. One wonders if the cost of repairs that are required to get her working again have played a part?

A shame either way - far better to have a living exhibit than one stuffed and mounted.
 

43096

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One wonders if the cost of repairs that are required to get her working again have played a part?
No, that is not the case. Reading the item published by 125 Group it is clear: the Science Museum have made the decision not to renew the loan agreement.
 

underbank

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That's really going to put off other groups from restoring NRM locos isn't it? Why go to all that work and expense just for the NRM to refuse to renew the loan agreement once the work has been done?
 

Flying Phil

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Sad news, but I'm sure the group will acquire a suitable power car (- or two?) very soon and continue to showcase what has been - and still is in places, a great motive power/train success story.
 

Rikki Lamb

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It is an historic and unique artefact and not a toy to be played with but where it can be appreciated by everyone, it should be on display and a production loco used to tour heritage railways instead.

I for one feel it is much safer and secure in the NRM.
 

DarloRich

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I have seen some very silly froth on social media about this. Some train fans really need to give their head a shake.

No, that is not the case. Reading the item published by 125 Group it is clear: the Science Museum have made the decision not to renew the loan agreement.
None of the articles explain WHY the decision not to renew was taken.

That's really going to put off other groups from restoring NRM locos isn't it? Why go to all that work and expense just for the NRM to refuse to renew the loan agreement once the work has been done?
Why? Do you know why the loan of the HST ( clue in the name) wasn't renewed?
 

Spartacus

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I have seen some very silly froth on social media about this. Some train fans really need to give their head a shake.



None of the articles explain WHY the decision not to renew was taken.



Why? Do you know why the loan of the HST ( clue in the name) wasn't renewed?
The thing is I think if the reasons aren’t publicised I doubt it’s going to give any group optimism about using their own time, money and effort to return an exhibit to traffic.
 

43096

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It is an historic and unique artefact and not a toy to be played with but where it can be appreciated by everyone, it should be on display and a production loco used to tour heritage railways instead.

I for one feel it is much safer and secure in the NRM.
With all due respect I fundamentally disagree.

125 Group has treated 41001 as if it was its own - they are well aware of its importance.

If your idea of it being appreciated by everyone is to leave it cold and dead in York (and not necessarily on display!), then fine. I’d far rather it was taken round the country as a real, working exhibit - which is what has happened at the Mid-Norfolk, Nene Valley, Bo’ness, Keighley etc etc.
 

underbank

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It is an historic and unique artefact and not a toy to be played with but where it can be appreciated by everyone, it should be on display and a production loco used to tour heritage railways instead.

I for one feel it is much safer and secure in the NRM.
So why did they loan it out in the first place then??
 

pdeaves

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If the agreement is not being renewed, that means 41001 is being returned to its owners at exactly the agreed time that the HST group knew from the outset. If they had planned or done anything based on automatic renewal that was a bit foolish (nothing wrong with the hope of a renewal, negotiate as appropriate, etc., but don't make the assumption). On the other hand, if they had not made any plans beyond the loan end, there is no reason for anyone to get upset.
 

Darandio

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The thing is I think if the reasons aren’t publicised I doubt it’s going to give any group optimism about using their own time, money and effort to return an exhibit to traffic.
In this case they used our* money didn't they? Granted, that is taking avery simplistic view.

*Monetary donations
 

DarloRich

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If the agreement is not being renewed, that means 41001 is being returned to its owners at exactly the agreed time that the HST group knew from the outset. If they had planned or done anything based on automatic renewal that was a bit foolish (nothing wrong with the hope of a renewal, negotiate as appropriate, etc., but don't make the assumption). On the other hand, if they had not made any plans beyond the loan end, there is no reason for anyone to get upset.
Correct. Negotiations have failed. It is sad. I contribute to the group and will continue to do so despite this situation. They have proved they can deploy the skills needed to maintain, repair and operate a complex locomotive and I am sure they will do so again in the future with an ( hopefully more than one) ex service power car. That has always been the long term aim of the group and one I subscribe to

Use of the prototype was a bonus to me. Take the positives.
 

timj

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But hadn't the 125 group painted all their coaches to match the prototype? So surely they will all have to repainted to match a production 'loco' (43) if they get one.
 

43096

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Correct. Negotiations have failed. It is sad. I contribute to the group and will continue to do so despite this situation. They have proved they can deploy the skills needed to maintain, repair and operate a complex locomotive and I am sure they will do so again in the future with an ( hopefully more than one) ex service power car. That has always been the long term aim of the group and one I subscribe to

Use of the prototype was a bonus to me. Take the positives.
There has been a massive amount learned over the last eight years that will stand them in good stead when they get a production power car. Essentially, they have successfully made the transition from interest group to fully fledged preservation group.
 

43096

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Some are painted in intercity livery.
2 in prototype livery (10206, 12092).
2 in IC Swallow (12087/134).
1 in BR standard blue/grey (10202).
1 in unbranded GWR green (44000).
1 in Anglia vinyls that will go for scrap (12065).
 

northernbelle

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No, that is not the case. Reading the item published by 125 Group it is clear: the Science Museum have made the decision not to renew the loan agreement.
I was referring to what the motive for not renewing might have been.

With all due respect I fundamentally disagree.

125 Group has treated 41001 as if it was its own - they are well aware of its importance.

If your idea of it being appreciated by everyone is to leave it cold and dead in York (and not necessarily on display!), then fine. I’d far rather it was taken round the country as a real, working exhibit - which is what has happened at the Mid-Norfolk, Nene Valley, Bo’ness, Keighley etc etc.
Charities have a legal obligation to evidence the provision of public access and education as part of its reason for being. A simple case could be made by the NRM that with 700,000+ visitors a year, the public benefit to having 41001 could be better made by it being at York. I personally don't agree and would far rather it was educating the public about the history of rail travel by being a working exhibit on a real railway but I can see why others might have a different view.

With the arrival of 43002 and the wider context of the HST being retired in numbers, it's probably not surprising that the NRM might have an alternative plan for 41001 over the next few years - it does, after all, belong to them and it is ultimately their prerogative to decide its future - much of the social media commentary appears to have forgotten that.
 

theblackwatch

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There has been a massive amount learned over the last eight years that will stand them in good stead when they get a production power car. Essentially, they have successfully made the transition from interest group to fully fledged preservation group.
Another point to bear in mind is that it has raised the profile of the 125 Group among both the enthusiast community and within the rail industry - which can only be a good thing.
 

M28361M

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The NRM has posted a statement on Twitter. First tweet in thread here.

In response to several questions we’ve received about HST prototype no.41001 – please see our statement below:

It is with regret that the National Railway Museum will not renew the 125 Group’s operational loan agreement for HST prototype No.41001 and Valenta power unit. The decision has not been taken lightly and follows repeated and serious breaches of conditions in the loan agreement.

These include a failure to ensure the security and safety of the power car, refusal to give museum representatives access to the vehicle when requested and unprofessional conduct. The power car will now return to the custodianship of the National Railway Museum.

We would like to thank members of the 125 Group for their efforts over several years.
Pretty strong stuff. o_O
 

BRX

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Is it likely that the 125 group will get hold of a couple of 'real' power cars soon? Or is that unlikely to happen until the various refurbished sets are themselves retired?
 

Edders23

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Is it likely that the 125 group will get hold of a couple of 'real' power cars soon? Or is that unlikely to happen until the various refurbished sets are themselves retired?
I think a number will become surplus to requirements mainly those on the midland main line
 

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