Provisionally Prosecuted - Southeastern

[odyssey94]

I attempted to board a train at Dartford on the 21st of September without printing a ticket that I had already paid for on the 16th of September via Trainline. An I was then stopped by an inspector who said that I'll be receiving a letter soon asking me for my version of events.

I've attempted to send the letter via fax to the number provided on the letter Southeastern sent to me to speed things up but it doesn't seem to be going through and I was advised to send the ticket that I had bought and any others as part of the appeals process.

Does anyone know the correct number to send a fax to Southeastern's Prosecution Office and any other advice that I should mention in my letter?

 

[mikeg]

Have you received the letter asking for your version of the events yet? I can't find any mention of this. If not sit tight and wait for it first.

 

[odyssey94]

I received the letter asking on Friday saying that I should write my version of the events on the back of the letter. I intend to send it back on Tuesday or Wednesday

 

[Hadders]

Send it back by old fashioned post. I'd send it recorded delivery and keep a copy of what you send them.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Send it back by old fashioned post. I'd send it recorded delivery and keep a copy of what you send them.

This^ and include copies of your tickets.

You can also write a letter and attach that to the request for information if you want to edit your reply.

As you now know, you were in the wrong to board without printing the tickets. It is worth making that point in your reply and acknowledging your mistake, apologising for the error and reiterating that you are now aware of the law and will not be repeating your mistake.

 

[Gareth Marston]

This^ and include copies of your tickets.

You can also write a letter and attach that to the request for information if you want to edit your reply.

As you now know, you were in the wrong to board without printing the tickets. It is worth making that point in your reply and acknowledging your mistake, apologising for the error and reiterating that you are now aware of the law and will not be repeating your mistake.

Best case scenario is that they offer the OP an out of court settlement as hes engaged early with them.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Best case scenario is that they offer the OP an out of court settlement as hes engaged early with them.

Agree!

 

[island]

As well as confirming what was said above that you committed a criminal offence by joining the train when not in possession of a valid ticket, and that you should respond by post (recorded delivery) and not fax, I will point out that you should never use Trainline as it charges more for tickets than booking directly with a train company – and all train companies sell the tickets Trainline does.

 

[shredder1]

I often think this not having a ticket even when you have proof of purchase is a bit of a con, and for it to be criminalised, I find beyond belief.

 

[najaB]

I often think this not having a ticket even when you have proof of purchase is a bit of a con, and for it to be criminalised, I find beyond belief.

The problem is that tickets aren't tied to an individual so proof of purchase just shows that you paid for a ticket, it doesn't mean that you used it.

If proof of purchase was good enough there would be nothing stopping me and a mate from paying for a ticket and one of us holding the ticket and the other the proof of purchase. Hey, presto - half price rail travel.

 

[AlterEgo]

I often think this not having a ticket even when you have proof of purchase is a bit of a con, and for it to be criminalised, I find beyond belief.

But proof of purchase isn't a ticket. If it worked in the same way as a ticket, you would need to be issued, er, a ticket.

An orange train ticket is like a banknote - it is transferable between people. If I asked you if you had £10 on you and you said yes, you'd open your wallet and show me a £10 note. If instead of a tenner you had a withdrawal slip from the ATM, that's not the same as a tenner... "Ah but look, I withdrew it! Proof!"

 

[shredder1]

The problem is that tickets aren't tied to an individual so proof of purchase just shows that you paid for a ticket, it doesn't mean that you used it.

If proof of purchase was good enough there would be nothing stopping me and a mate from paying for a ticket and one of us holding the ticket and the najaBse senmakes other the proof of purchase. Hey, presto - half price rail travel.

Yes that makes sense najaB

 

[shredder1]

But proof of purchase isn't a ticket. If it worked in the same way as a ticket, you would need to be issued, er, a ticket.

An orange train ticket is like a banknote - it is transferable between people. If I asked you if you had £10 on you and you said yes, you'd open your wallet and show me a £10 note. If instead of a tenner you had a withdrawal slip from the ATM, that's not the same as a tenner... "Ah but look, I withdrew it! Proof!"

Well not really, but I appreciate what you are saying, so fair comment mate.

 

[Gareth Marston]

The National Conditions of Carriage are quite clear on the subject , a passenger must have a valid ticket to travel. Proof of purchase or a collection reference from Trainline are no use. Have a look at the thread about the internet con Train Pro site people have parted with money and been given bogus TOD collection references.

It does differ in how its dealt with across the country. I had a lady come in this afternoon , she bought tickets off me a while back but come the day of travel when the first Conductor came round she only had receipts, printouts of journey times and tickets for the return leg on her. She said she was made to buy new tickets, she was looking to see what could be done to get her money back. She didn't bring anything with her, we went through the rigmarole of "you didn't give them to us".

My reply was people are always forgetting things, leaving things on the counter or dropping them on or near the station if we find them or there handed in well do our best to return them. I showed her a Two Together Railcard complete with OUT & RTN portions of Off Peak Returns from Bristol Temple Meads we have unfortunately there was nothing to identify the owners address or any tn number. We were hoping they'd come into the office in a bit of state about how they were going to get back to Bristol but we've not seen them. Point being if she had left them at the station we would probably have found them and tried to get hold of her. In the last month ive given a Conductor a railcard wallet and set of tickets and told them which carriage the owner boarded and given 4 Educational Season tickets back to their owners. Two were shout down the platform jobs and the other two were handed in one by a Pwllheli Conductor who found it on a train in Barmouth 60 miles away from us and its owner.

However if you lose it at home / elsewhere there's nothing we can do to help.

 

[shredder1]

The National Conditions of Carriage are quite clear on the subject , a passenger must have a valid ticket to travel. Proof of purchase or a collection reference from Trainline are no use. Have a look at the thread about the internet con Train Pro site people have parted with money and been given bogus TOD collection references.

It does differ in how its dealt with across the country. I had a lady come in this afternoon , she bought tickets off me a while back but come the day of travel when the first Conductor came round she only had receipts, printouts of journey times and tickets for the return leg on her. She said she was made to buy new tickets, she was looking to see what could be done to get her money back. She didn't bring anything with her, we went through the rigmarole of "you didn't give them to us".

My reply was people are always forgetting things, leaving things on the counter or dropping them on or near the station if we find them or there handed in well do our best to return them. I showed her a Two Together Railcard complete with OUT & RTN portions of Off Peak Returns from Bristol Temple Meads we have unfortunately there was nothing to identify the owners address or any tn number. We were hoping they'd come into the office in a bit of state about how they were going to get back to Bristol but we've not seen them. Point being if she had left them at the station we would probably have found them and tried to get hold of her. In the last month ive given a Conductor a railcard wallet and set of tickets and told them which carriage the owner boarded and given 4 Educational Season tickets back to their owners. Two were shout down the platform jobs and the other two were handed in one by a Pwllheli Conductor who found it on a train in Barmouth 60 miles away from us and its owner.

However if you lose it at home / elsewhere there's nothing we can do to help.

Thats very good of you guys to go to all that trouble.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Thats very good of you guys to go to all that trouble.

Outside the South East and he Metropolitan areas staff are a lot more relaxed and have more time maybe, they do live in the communities they serve which on the whole tend to be like that also. We've had folk leave their purse on the last train from Shrewsbury on a Saturday night and get it back untouched after its found at Machynlleth.

Until you work with it day in day you don't realize how much stuff does get lost.

We have a large number of stations on the Cambrian without any ticket buying facilities, yet we still get people who book TOD online and expect to collect from them. Conductors on the coast will usually let someone ride down to Machynlleth (if their going beyond) and direct them to the booking office there to get them printed. They'll do that on the mainline with someone for a "first offense" and make it clear that they must get them in future before boarding as only Borth and Dovey Juncton don't have facilities.

Going back to the OP Dartford's ticket buying and collecting facilities are
Ticket Office
Yes
Opening hours
Monday - Friday 06:10 - 20:40
Saturday 06:10 - 19:40
Sunday 07:10 - 20:40

Being staffed may mean there is only staff in the ticket office, who may not always be available to assist - booking is recommended
Location

On way in to access trains
Height adjusted ticket office counter
Height adjusted ticket counter is not available at this station
Induction loop
This office has an induction loop
Ticket machines
Yes
Accessible ticket machines
There are accessible ticket machines at this station
Accessible ticket machines note

booking hall
Collection of pre-purchased tickets
Yes, from ticket machine

Its a different kettle of fish to a unstaffed request halt on the shores of Cardigan Bay. The OP's passed up a number of opportunity's to collect Booking Office with long hours and multiple TVM's.

 

[shredder1]

Outside the South East and he Metropolitan areas staff are a lot more relaxed and have more time maybe, they do live in the communities they serve which on the whole tend to be like that also. We've had folk leave their purse on the last train from Shrewsbury on a Saturday night and get it back untouched after its found at Machynlleth.

Until you work with it day in day you don't realize how much stuff does get lost.[/QUOTEI can remember watching a programme on the television about one of the London lost luggage offices, some the sthe stuff handing in was unbelievable, like a false leg for goodness sake, surely you`d remember that,

 

[odyssey94]

Outside the South East and he Metropolitan areas staff are a lot more relaxed and have more time maybe, they do live in the communities they serve which on the whole tend to be like that also. We've had folk leave their purse on the last train from Shrewsbury on a Saturday night and get it back untouched after its found at Machynlleth.

Until you work with it day in day you don't realize how much stuff does get lost.

We have a large number of stations on the Cambrian without any ticket buying facilities, yet we still get people who book TOD online and expect to collect from them. Conductors on the coast will usually let someone ride down to Machynlleth (if their going beyond) and direct them to the booking office there to get them printed. They'll do that on the mainline with someone for a "first offense" and make it clear that they must get them in future before boarding as only Borth and Dovey Juncton don't have facilities.

Going back to the OP Dartford's ticket buying and collecting facilities are
Ticket Office
Yes
Opening hours
Monday - Friday 06:10 - 20:40
Saturday 06:10 - 19:40
Sunday 07:10 - 20:40

Being staffed may mean there is only staff in the ticket office, who may not always be available to assist - booking is recommended
Location

On way in to access trains
Height adjusted ticket office counter
Height adjusted ticket counter is not available at this station
Induction loop
This office has an induction loop
Ticket machines
Yes
Accessible ticket machines
There are accessible ticket machines at this station
Accessible ticket machines note

booking hall
Collection of pre-purchased tickets
Yes, from ticket machine

Its a different kettle of fish to a unstaffed request halt on the shores of Cardigan Bay. The OP's passed up a number of opportunity's to collect Booking Office with long hours and multiple TVM's.

I'm aware of the opportunities that I have to pick up the ticket, the problem is that I don't have enough time to do it before my train leaves. When this happens, I just pick up my ticket from my next stop which is Strood. This is usually down to me leaving home a bit late although it hasn't worked out for me this time lol.

I've just received a reply to my letter today and I was told that I can settle the matter if I paid £14.60 for the fare avoided and an extra £135.00 towards their costs within 21 days. I'm bit ticked off about having to pay towards a fare I've already paid for but I'm quite please with the result, especially considering the fact that I work in a charity.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I'm aware of the opportunities that I have to pick up the ticket, the problem is that I don't have enough time to do it before my train leaves. When this happens, I just pick up my ticket from my next stop which is Strood. This is usually down to me leaving home a bit late although it hasn't worked out for me this time lol.

I've just received a reply to my letter today and I was told that I can settle the matter if I paid £14.60 for the fare avoided and an extra £135.00 towards their costs within 21 days. I'm bit ticked off about having to pay towards a fare I've already paid for but I'm quite please with the result, especially considering the fact that I work in a charity.

Glad its a good result for you but what has working for a charity got to do with anything? Many people working for charities are paid very well....

 

[Gareth Marston]

I'm aware of the opportunities that I have to pick up the ticket, the problem is that I don't have enough time to do it before my train leaves. When this happens, I just pick up my ticket from my next stop which is Strood. This is usually down to me leaving home a bit late although it hasn't worked out for me this time lol.

I've just received a reply to my letter today and I was told that I can settle the matter if I paid £14.60 for the fare avoided and an extra £135.00 towards their costs within 21 days. I'm bit ticked off about having to pay towards a fare I've already paid for but I'm quite please with the result, especially considering the fact that I work in a charity.

Essentially you got away with it until recently. A life lesson on leaving in plenty of time to collect your ticket in the future.

 

[Wivenswold]

For all the gripes about GA, I recently bought a season ticket online and have a smart card. I thought it would be updated online, so just boarded my train. Got to my destination, smart card wouldn't let me through so I approached the group of RPIs preparing for a lengthy and heated discussion. "Oh, alright mate, just tap it on the machine when you get back to your home station tonight". With that, he opened the barrier, didn't even ask to see my proof of purchase.