Psychometrics

[4F89]

I don't think the tests are to blame for people falling through the cracks.

I suspect it is the standard or level of practical instruction given nowadays. Instructors are under pressure to get through trainees as quick as possible, and with a increasing workload it's inevitable that a higher fail rate is experienced.

TOC driver training is just a production line now. Get them in and out as quick as possible - regardless of route or knowledge gaps.

I can't say that that reflects on my own course, but I suppose all employers are different. I hope no shortcuts are/have been taken for profit.

 

[43066]

I don't think the tests are to blame for people falling through the cracks.

I suspect it is the standard or level of practical instruction given nowadays. Instructors are under pressure to get through trainees as quick as possible, and with a increasing workload it's inevitable that a higher fail rate is experienced.

TOC driver training is just a production line now. Get them in and out as quick as possible - regardless of route or knowledge gaps.

Yes that’s definitely a key factor - the tests are just one part of a bigger picture.

The quality of DIs at the TOC I trained at was variable to say the least, ranging from excellent to downright awful and everything in between.

The TOC failed to make the DI role attractive enough (£££) so not many drivers were willing to do it given the responsibility and paperwork. They were desperate for DIs so pretty much anyone who wanted to do it was allowed to - even those with terrible safety records themselves, or those who were blatantly doing it for the wrong reasons.

 

[na281093]

What is the difference between the enhanced psychometrics test and the regular one? I see a lot of people saying some TOCs require enhanced.

 

[GG96LFC]

What is the difference between the enhanced psychometrics test and the regular one? I see a lot of people saying some TOCs require enhanced.

It’s pretty much the same/similar test, it’s just the ‘enhanced standard’ companies require you to score more points on each test than the national standard’ companies

 

[DRS66421]

I cant say I ever really desired to be a driver, but maybe that's what they want. I didn't expect to get through each stage, but kept plugging away, and here I am. I understand I've been very fortunate, but thems the breaks.

Just wondered if you have any advise for passing each stage and passing the psychometric tests particularly the Visual Search and the Situational Judgement?
Can you recommend any practice material?
I am desperate to get my foot in the door so any help and advise would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks.

 

[DRS66421]

As someone who has recently taken the tests, my biggest fear was indeed the thought of only getting 2 cracks at them. I was fortunate to pass them first time and am now waiting for a DMI date, so still a hurdle to get over. I didn’t find the tests particularly hard if I’m honest, my wife on the other hand really struggled with them when I showed her the practice material. In my opinion you either “get it” or you don’t.

Can you give any advise for passing the Visual Search and Situational Judgement?
Could you also recommend any practice material?
Many thanks.

 

[PlexiDriver]

Are there significant differences between Freight &Passenger assessment pass rates. For examples I have:

• The Trainability for Rules and Procedures Test Part 1 and 2

• The Group Bourdon Concentration Test

• The Driver Fault Finding Test (DFFT)

• The Test of Everyday Attention for Occupational Assessment (TEA-Occ)

Coming up, is that industry standard?

 

[Stigy]

What is the difference between the enhanced psychometrics test and the regular one? I see a lot of people saying some TOCs require enhanced.

Companies who use enhanced testing also use the VSE etc, plus usually have the DFFT (Driver Fault Finding Test) which isn’t part of the standard psychometric assessments.

 

[Red1980]

I don't think the tests are to blame for people falling through the cracks.

I suspect it is the standard or level of practical instruction given nowadays. Instructors are under pressure to get through trainees as quick as possible, and with a increasing workload it's inevitable that a higher fail rate is experienced.

TOC driver training is just a production line now. Get them in and out as quick as possible - regardless of route or knowledge gaps.

Yes it's not the be all end all obviously but remember the assessments aren't there to just weed down the numbers.....they're actually there to see if you have the aptitude to do the job.

It's all well and good saying that instruction may not be at its best but if a student is still needing to be told to react to cautionary aspects a week before pass out despite having numerous instructors or still needing to be reminded about concentration at the same point to me it doesn't matter who your instructor is.

 

[RBSN]

What makes psychometrics so hard

The pressure you put on yourself.

The tests are easy if you look at them. Just make sure to LOOK and LISTEN to what they are asking you to do. They always show and explain each test.

More to the point and something that’s very relevant to being a train driver; if you’re unsure - ask!

 

[Eccles1983]

Yes it's not the be all end all obviously but remember the assessments aren't there to just weed down the numbers.....they're actually there to see if you have the aptitude to do the job.

It's all well and good saying that instruction may not be at its best but if a student is still needing to be told to react to cautionary aspects a week before pass out despite having numerous instructors or still needing to be reminded about concentration at the same point to me it doesn't matter who your instructor is.

It does.

The instructor should of highlighted this much earlier than a week before passing out.

A review should of been carried out much earlier in the process, and if required action taken.

Now, if TOC's don't want to hear what the instructors are saying is more relevant. I have seen it before where instructors have refused to train drivers because they are unsuitable. Unfortunately the TOC's seem to pass the trainee on to someone who will. Multiple instructors for a trainee is not right. It should be one, as you get used to each other and styles.

Psychometrics are only one part of the puzzle. Training school should be the first line of defence.

 

[Red1980]

It does.

The instructor should of highlighted this much earlier than a week before passing out.

A review should of been carried out much earlier in the process, and if required action taken.

Now, if TOC's don't want to hear what the instructors are saying is more relevant. I have seen it before where instructors have refused to train drivers because they are unsuitable. Unfortunately the TOC's seem to pass the trainee on to someone who will. Multiple instructors for a trainee is not right. It should be one, as you get used to each other and styles.

Psychometrics are only one part of the puzzle. Training school should be the first line of defence.

Nonsense.

When I say a week before pass out that's where they should of been....I didn't mean that they're going to still pass them out in a week's time regardless.....and the problem had been addressed earlier as that wasn't their first or even second instructor.....and they were all having to tell the trainees the same thing. The TOC did more than what was expected of them in relation to trying to help the trainee/s

Once again nonsense.

As I said earlier the psychometric assessments are designed to see if you can do the job......last I heard was the training was part of the job.... There's obviously a flaw within the psychometric testing as people are being put through that obviously aren't up to the training let alone the job.

It's no way a coincidence that many instructors with plenty of successful trainees under their belts over the years have suddenly started finding the same faults with trainees. And anyway concentration to a certain extent can't be taught! it's something you have or you don't have (another thing the psychometrics are designed to spot).....there's techniques trainees are given throughout their training to help with it but if it's not there after 260 odd hours of handling etc the chances are it won't ever be.

 

[Eccles1983]

Part of any instructors job is to develop styles to enhance the skills the trainee possesses.

I instructed in various roles for over 15 years. I am fully aware of the pitfalls of it, and the responsibility to highlight issues very early.

What I am saying is the instructors are not given the weight of opinion to call it early. That's why I'd never instruct drivers - absolutely no weight is given to instructors who after trying various things are ignored when questioning suitability for the job.

The psychometrics have worked for years, they haven't really changed. So unless the last 15-20 years of drivers are now useless then I can't see the tests being the sole factor.

It's nonsense to suggest otherwise.

 

[Stigy]

Part of any instructors job is to develop styles to enhance the skills the trainee possesses.

I instructed in various roles for over 15 years. I am fully aware of the pitfalls of it, and the responsibility to highlight issues very early.

What I am saying is the instructors are not given the weight of opinion to call it early. That's why I'd never instruct drivers - absolutely no weight is given to instructors who after trying various things are ignored when questioning suitability for the job.

The psychometrics have worked for years, they haven't really changed. So unless the last 15-20 years of drivers are now useless then I can't see the tests being the sole factor.

It's nonsense to suggest otherwise.

It’s a cost issue if nothing else. It’s far easier to bury one’s head in the sand than to ‘get rid’ of someone (training costs/effect on establishment/re-recruiting being time consuming/having to potentially redeploy being just a few factors).

 

[Red1980]

Part of any instructors job is to develop styles to enhance the skills the trainee possesses.

I instructed in various roles for over 15 years. I am fully aware of the pitfalls of it, and the responsibility to highlight issues very early.

What I am saying is the instructors are not given the weight of opinion to call it early. That's why I'd never instruct drivers - absolutely no weight is given to instructors who after trying various things are ignored when questioning suitability for the job.

The psychometrics have worked for years, they haven't really changed. So unless the last 15-20 years of drivers are now useless then I can't see the tests being the sole factor.

It's nonsense to suggest otherwise.

The tests haven't really changed? You may actually want to go and look at them if you believe that to be the case.

 

[Eccles1983]

The tests haven't really changed? You may actually want to go and look at them if you believe that to be the case.

They have taken parts out such as mechanical comprehension, but the basic parts are still involved. Fault checking, concentration etc.

It's not like they have completely scrapped them and come up with new tests.

Unless I'm wrong and I'm happy to be corrected.

 

[ComUtoR]

It's not like they have completely scrapped them and come up with new tests.

Unless I'm wrong and I'm happy to be corrected.

The rules changed a few years back. TOCs were allowed to set their own test in addition to the mandatory OPC ones. Mechanical comprehension was removed and new tests were added.

Myself, a Trainee, and a Driver who I sat my assessment day with, were all in the cab the other week discussing our assessments. So much has changed at my TOC and the tests I sat, other than Group Bourdon, basic English (Glop test), and the MMI, have changed, been scrapped, or new ones added.

The VSE (visual search exercise) is relatively new and gaining more ground and now, due to Apprenticeships, GCSE English and Maths are pretty much going to become a requirement.

From the standards. The tests, pass rates, and requirements are reviewed on a 5yr basis and if the tests are changed significantly, everyone's lives are reset. A review is due at any point now so we may see another change in the tests.

 

[Red1980]

They have taken parts out such as mechanical comprehension, but the basic parts are still involved. Fault checking, concentration etc.

It's not like they have completely scrapped them and come up with new tests.

Unless I'm wrong and I'm happy to be corrected.

Yes but in completely different formats. For example the "reaction test" is a shadow of what it was and not every TOC uses a fault checking assessment, I know my trainee and subsequent qualified driver transfer certainly didn't.

My actual trainee course had an assessment that didn't even form part of the marking process (what's the point then?)

I'd love to see the pass rates now in comparison to the days when you had the mechanical comprehension, dials, cogs and former reaction assessments..... I bet far more are passing now and it's not due to a sharp increase in the general publics aptitude.

So aside from the group bourdon (possibly glop too) they pretty much have all been scrapped. I have taken various forms of the assessments before they were changed a few years back, I know that when I took them first time around there was no yellow pages test, guiding a ball around a shape, staring at a grey shape for half hour,report writing or a hazard perception/ traffic scene type test.