Public Misconceptions!

[Ivo]

9. On electric railways, the power is always turned off as soon as a train has passed to make it safer.

I have heard this one far too often. How naïve must a person be to believe such a thing? Is it the case with cables between pylons?

 

[Brucey]

Is it the case with cables between pylons?

Of course it is! Everytime Mrs Smith switches off her kettle, the pylons become discharged and safe to touch. Same as that wonderful juice rail that litters the south of England.

Note: The above is NOT TRUE. If you are stupid enough to try it, please don't blame me for your own stupidity.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

The Gatwick Express issue has been discussed quite a few times. Hasn't the situation been clarified now?

Short story is that recently a FOI request to ATOC revealed that, as far as Condition 10 is concerned, they are separate train companies (as defined in the NRCoC). The 'That's cattle manure' camp then stated that ATOC were certified bona fide liars who couldn't be trusted with anything important, because a previous ATOC FOI request about this in relation to Condition 10, many moons ago, said that they were the same franchise and that the previous FOI request obviously held more weight even though the answer given contained no reference to Condition 10 at all, but that isn't important, it's just a small detail after all.

I think that covers all the points made in the last discussion on the subject.

Anyway, my contribution to the public misconceptions thread is......

The passenger is always right.

When the passenger isn't right, which of course is never as we know, staff are always, without exception, aggressive, obnoxious, over bearing, rude 'jobsworths', who are never right and never have anything better to do then interfere with the comfort of [non]paying passengers, who have a right to travel for nothing.

 

[PTF62]

Must stress if this turns up from a search the following are NOT true

Advance fares are always the cheapest option.

The senior managers where I work clearly believe this, as they issued strict instructions that people MUST (with no exceptions) book fixed time train tickets if they are available as it will save money.

Another misconception is that all 1st Class Fares are prohibitively expensive when on occasion they can be cheaper than 2nd class.

And they believe this one as well. First class tickets must NEVER EVER be booked.

And one I have come across several times -

Must stress if this turns up from a search the following are NOT true

People believe that if they have a seat reservation for a particular train with an Anytime or Off-Peak ticket, they can only travel on that particular train.

 

[island]

Sorry, I should have made my point clearer - I was referring to a journey starting from a staffed station. The gentleman in question was boasting about how he regularly 'got away with it'. He didn't mention how he got around the ticket barriers at the other end, though.

My post wasn't a reply to yours

 

[Minilad]

8. Train drivers can follow whatever route they choose to avoid any delays ahead.

What ! You mean we can't !
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
To go off at a bit of a tangent I wonder how many car drivers know all the laws pertaining to driving in this country.

 

[All Line Rover]

One from today...A ticket from London Terminals to Derby route Any Permitted is valid to travel Marylebone - Banbury/Leamington Spa/Birmingham - Derby.

Bet the passenger in question had a good argument on CrossCountry when they changed trains.

Seems perfectly reasonable to me when looked at on a map (either a geographical map or PROJECT map).

There are some journeys where the only possible way to get from A to B is via a far more ridiculous route. For example, Whitchurch to Wrexham. By car, approximately 15 miles. By train, approximately 45 miles (either via Shrewsbury or via Crewe). Tell that to a guard who ever questions you for taking a 20-mile longer route!

 

[island]

A penalty fare is £20.

 

[rdwarr]

A few of mine, some from childhood, some a bit more recent:

BTP are not "real" police.
You can never break your journey unless making an immediate connection.
If you're wandering round a depot without permission the first person you meet will give you a guided tour and make you a cup of tea (although that did happen once).
You can never sit in an area labelled "First Class" unless you have a First Class ticket.
But you can stand in First Class.

 

[island]

If you travel on the wrong train from London to Birmingham on an Advance ticket you have to pay a fine of £79.

 

[MikeWh]

The biggest misconception from my Oyster site:

If you travel from zone 3 to zone 3 via zone 1, but don't touch anywhere in zone 1, you won't need to pay for zone 1 travel. Eg Stratford to Ealing Broadway on the Central line.

 

[317666]

Another common misconception: Everything to do with the railways is, and always has been, called British Rail.

 

[Ivo]

A penalty fare is £20.

Another misconception: The above "£20" issue is a fine.

 

[Anon Mouse]

Just a few more I can think of

If you are off out on the drink on a Friday night and board a busy train at an unstaffed station you don't need to buy a ticket

If you shout loud enough at the Guard you will be let off

OAP's don't need to show their railcard

Members of the Armed Forces don't need to show their railcard

Your Army ID card gives you the railcard discount

You can use the return portion of an open return or off peak return as many times as you want for a full month.

If your return ticket does not get stamped you are allowed to keep on using it until it gets stamped

Cross Country only tickets are valid on any train that is travelling across country regardless of operator

If you have no money you can travel on the train for free and get 'one of those forms'

Your Concessionary pass allows you free travel on all trains in the UK

You should only pay the first class fare if there is no freebies.

You can travel in first class with a standard class ticket if you are only going one stop

You can travel for free if you are only going to the next stop.

If you get caught without a ticket you can get off at next stop

If you forget your railcard you can just pay the difference.

a Natwest debit card proves you can use your YP ticket

If you say "me no speak English" you will be let off.

The Driver of a Virgin train can steer

 

[Chester025]

BTP are not "real" police.

You mean that isn't true? hock:

 

[fairysdad]

At least SWT now announce at Havant on Northbound trains that people with 'Southern Only' Tickets should leave the service, rather than simply pocketing the Excess Fare.

Misreading that as I did made me think of another possible (though not sure if it is a common misconception) - a ticket labelled 'Southern Only' is only valid on trains heading in a southbound direction...

 

[Minilad]

Just because I am in the uniform of a TOC I know all times and platform numbers of every train running in Britian

 

[Anon Mouse]

If I wear a HiViz jacket or coat I can travel for free

If I wear a HiViz jacket I can tresspass on the railway to take my photo of Tornado

If I say "I didn't realise" when challenged on travelling with an invalid ticket I will be let off.

I can travel on a Child ticket if I am 16/17/18

If I miss my National Express Coach I can travel on the train with my Coach ticket

If I have a season ticket I pay more than everybody else

I have a season ticket therefore I should be given a seat

Passengers pay Rail Staffs wages

 

[NathanPrior]

Just a few more I can think of

If you forget your railcard you can just pay the difference.

You can actually do this

 

[Ivo]

If you forget your railcard you can just pay the difference.

You can actually do this

Not having a Railcard when travelling on a Railcard discounted ticket is a Penalty Fare (where such things exist obviously), or at the very least a new fare.

This is NOT a misconception. Whereas Nathan's comment is.

 

[NathanPrior]

Not having a Railcard when travelling on a Railcard discounted ticket is a Penalty Fare (where such things exist obviously).

On the train or at the station, you have the absolute right to make only "a minimum payment that is equal to the full single fare which [you] would have had to pay for [your] journey if penalty fares had not applied." This is section 8 (2) of the Penalty Fares Rules 2002 - quote it if anyone tries to tell you different. (The full single fare means the fare without any railcard discounts, cheap offers etc.) Ignore any threats that may be made at this point if you refuse to pay the full sum - these are phoney and have no legal basis.

 

[Anon Mouse]

You can actually do this

The terms and conditions that the railcard holder signs for state that you are required to buy a new ticket at the full fare. When a Guard charges an XS fare on these occasions he is using his discretion and is not supposed to do it, which leads me onto one more;

The Guard using his/her discretion is a god given right to the passenger with the irregualrity.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

On the train or at the station, you have the absolute right to make only "a minimum payment that is equal to the full single fare which [you] would have had to pay for [your] journey if penalty fares had not applied." This is section 8 (2) of the Penalty Fares Rules 2002 - quote it if anyone tries to tell you different. (The full single fare means the fare without any railcard discounts, cheap offers etc.) Ignore any threats that may be made at this point if you refuse to pay the full sum - these are phoney and have no legal basis.

So are you suggesting that people evade their fares or are you stating this as a misconception?

 

[island]

On the train or at the station, you have the absolute right to make only "a minimum payment that is equal to the full single fare which [you] would have had to pay for [your] journey if penalty fares had not applied." This is section 8 (2) of the Penalty Fares Rules 2002 - quote it if anyone tries to tell you different. (The full single fare means the fare without any railcard discounts, cheap offers etc.) Ignore any threats that may be made at this point if you refuse to pay the full sum - these are phoney and have no legal basis.

Your point is correct, but you must still pay the balance of the penalty fare within 21 days.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

If you forget your railcard you can just pay the difference.

You can actually do this

I felt confident that someone, at some point, would be along claiming that one of these popular misconceptions was, in their opinion, true.

And Lo! Here we are!

 

[michael769]

Are the railways being unique as the only non-police/CPS body who criminally prosecute (ignoring the odd private prosecution such as Stephen Lawrence, etc)?

There are a number of other public bodies (Local Council's Trading Standards and Environmental Health officers, HMRC, Borders Agency, Environment Agency spring to mind) who can raise prosecutions - though as far as I know they do so via the CPS/Procurator Fiscal.

The only other private organisation I can think of is the RSPCA (and the SSPCA in Scotland) - sometimes work with the CPS and sometimes do it privately.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Yes, its an interesting question. There has been a move in recent years (led in England by the ODPM rather than the Home Office) to introduce New legislation in favour of some of the devolved legislation, but more of the developments appear to have directed at undermining/updating (depending on your PoV) the raft of Byelaws rather than Private Criminal Prosecutions.

Its generally assumed that Citizens as individuals, or Corporate bodies of several flavours, may bring about Criminal proceedings in cases where the Police and/or CPS do not.

 

[yorkie]

You can actually do this

Only before you board the train. It should not be done on board (unless there was no ticket office open at the station where you commenced your journey and that was the first opportunity to pay), but sometimes guards will show discretion.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . . . but sometimes guards will show discretion.

Indeed they will.
But equally, they will sometimes consider the Ticket to be invalid.
We shouldn't leave the impression (even on a thread dedicated to misconceptions) that there is a simple mechanism available to anyone to 'upgrade' a Railcard discounted ticket when its not accompanied by the relevant Railcard.
(I make this point in consideration of the apparently high numbers of passengers abusing these discounts and who appear to be hoping that there will be an inexpensive additional cost on the few occasions that they are challenged to produce their non-existent Railcard. I understand that the extent of this particular abuse of the discount, along with the corresponding abuse of the child rate when over age, amounts to a very considerable loss of legitimate income to the Operators).

 

[island]

There's a magic online list of Railcard holders that all guards can look up at any time which will also verify that the person in front of you has one.

 

[lyesbkz]

Misconception: The rail industry do things to intentionally set passengers up for buying a new ticket