public transport stops on google maps

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34D

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Hello,

I have noticed that google maps is pretty good at showing public transport stops. On my observations, rail stations are shown on the 7 biggest scales, and bus stops on the 3 biggest scales.

The bus stops around the country seem to be linked to traveline or transport direct (which is fair enough) with TfL and dublin bus in the capital cities.

Rail stations on mainland Britain are linked to thetrainline.com and those in northern and southern Ireland aren't linked anywhere.

Why not link to national rail?

And, are there are any areas of the country where bus stops don't appear, apart from Northern and Southern Ireland (outside Dublin, it would appear)?

Are any railway stations missing (apart from Ireland)?
 
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citybus

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Although Google Maps has the problem of listing Northern Ireland train halts that have been closed for fifty years. Tandragee being one example. What's even more surprising is that these icons are a recent addition to Google.
 

34D

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Presumably thetrainline.com is paying Google to link to straight to them.

I must say that I had discounted that, because it is public information, and surely someone would pay big money to be the 'official' page for Kings Cross etc. Perhaps you are right though.

I can't imagine traveline etc paying though; those organisations are run on a shoe-string.
 

snail

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I must say that I had discounted that, because it is public information, and surely someone would pay big money to be the 'official' page for Kings Cross etc. Perhaps you are right though.

I can't imagine traveline etc paying though; those organisations are run on a shoe-string.
In what sense public though? Google are not a public body and rely on advertisers and users to keep their maps up to date. I find their location icons very erratic in terms of accuracy.

As for the Trainline link, that could be a 'pay per click' arrangement worth fractions of a penny. It would only need one booking fee to pay for a few hundred click-throughs.
 

bluenoxid

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Although Google Maps has the problem of listing Northern Ireland train halts that have been closed for fifty years. Tandragee being one example. What's even more surprising is that these icons are a recent addition to Google.

An example of poor data distribution by the authorities on both sides of the border. I am currently chasing the Northern Ireland Authorities for a timescale for the release of their data in a format that we can make use of.
 

34D

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In what sense public though? Google are not a public body and rely on advertisers and users to keep their maps up to date. I find their location icons very erratic in terms of accuracy.

In the sense that google wish to provide the most accurate mapping that it can, and for users to believe that they get the most reliable/accurate/uptodate information (?)
 

citybus

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An example of poor data distribution by the authorities on both sides of the border. I am currently chasing the Northern Ireland Authorities for a timescale for the release of their data in a format that we can make use of.

Though you have to wonder what individual or organisation thought, "you know what, I like the way Google Maps has been up to date enough to include all the existing train stations. But wouldn't it be a great addition for 2012 to include halts that for most people aren't even in living memory."

As for your second sentence, what data do you require, and what do you want to use it for?
 

34D

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Me again. Could I ask a favour of those who have google maps installed on a mobile device.

Please navigate to any bus or rail stop in west yorkshire. Now, on my desktop computer, when I click on a bus stop (in WY) I am invited to click another link to go to the transport direct page for that stop (with scheduled departures, etc).

On my blackberry, I don't have the option to click through to TD. My question is, whether iPhones, Android, etc etc do the same thing.
 

dave55uk

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34D :

I've navigated to Ripon Road (A61) and found bus stops near to Bluefin Insurance Services [this was the first bus stop I came to - no other reason].

When I click on the blue bus stop icon it brings up the name of the bus stop in a rectangular icon. Clicking that I get a page with the option of going to a map (where I've just come from!) or to get directions, then scheduled depatures (in this case schedules unknown), then a list of nearby stations (?) - which in this case lists (among others) Harrogate bus station. Clicking that I get a bus route (561) with some strange sort of times, in this case - Route 561 Victoria coach station arr 1210, Knaresborough 1825, Ripon bus station 2105.

HTH.
 
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34D

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34D :

I've navigated to Ripon Road (A61) and found bus stops near to Bluefin Insurance Services [this was the first bus stop I came to - no other reason].

When I click on the blue bus stop icon it brings up the name of the bus stop in a rectangular icon. Clicking that I get a page with the option of going to a map (where I've just come from!) or to get directions, then scheduled depatures (in this case schedules unknown), then a list of nearby stations (?) - which in this case lists (among others) Harrogate bus station. Clicking that I get a bus route (561) with some strange sort of times, in this case - Route 561 Victoria coach station arr 1210, Knaresborough 1825, Ripon bus station 2105.

HTH.

Yes most helpful, what sort of device do you have?

Is there anywhere on that page that tells you the bus stop number (or a link to a transport direct page)?

The only options I have (when clicking what I think is the same stop) is map, directions, telephone (which is greyed out) and streetview.
 

MK Tom

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Google Maps often show more bus stops than there actually are, like here for instance: https://maps.google.com/?ll=52.034178,-0.794599&spn=0.000653,0.001206&t=h&z=20 (you can see the two that actually exist painted on the road).

On an aside it's quite amusing that due to me navigating directly to that without searching for it, Google still thinks I'm in the USA when I'm hovering over north-west MK.
 

34D

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Google Maps often show more bus stops than there actually are, like here for instance: https://maps.google.com/?ll=52.034178,-0.794599&spn=0.000653,0.001206&t=h&z=20 (you can see the two that actually exist painted on the road).

On an aside it's quite amusing that due to me navigating directly to that without searching for it, Google still thinks I'm in the USA when I'm hovering over north-west MK.

I'll check this when I'm on a PC, but there are often 'unmarked' naptans in addition to marked ones.

Looking at the two SE-bound stops shown on that map-link, both appear to be valid stops.

The one with the shelter is referred to by google as "Great Holm, os Great Holm Local Centre (On Kensington Drive)" mltdag and the one that is unmarked is "Great Holm, Corsham Court, SEbound (On Kensington Drive)" mltdat

From the naptan database:

AtcoCode NaptanCode PlateCode CleardownCode CommonName CommonNameLang ShortCommonName ShortCommonNameLang Landmark LandmarkLang Street StreetLang Crossing CrossingLang Indicator IndicatorLang Bearing NptgLocalityCode LocalityName ParentLocalityName GrandParentLocalityName Town TownLang Suburb SuburbLang LocalityCentre GridType Easting Northing Longitude Latitude StopType BusStopType TimingStatus


49003945827 mltdag Great Holm Local Centre Great Holm Community Centre Kensington Drive o/s SE N0064969 Great Holm Milton Keynes Milton Keynes Great Holm 1 U 482785 237998 -0.79461 52.03423 BCT MKD OTH

49003945843 mltdat Corsham Court Corsham Court Kensington Drive SE-bound SE N0064969 Great Holm Milton Keynes Milton Keynes Great Holm 1 U 482755 238023 -0.79504 52.03446 BCT MKD OTH 32 2006-03-07T00:00:00 2010-10-11T11:34:00 5 rev act

Both are shown as MKD under bus stop type, MKD denotes "On-street Bus / Coach /Trolleybus Stop" where the alternatives are CUS "Custom / Unmarked stop" HAR "Hail & Ride zone" or FLX "flexible zone".

I also note that the marked stop doesn't appear to have any bus services loaded into it, but that the unmarked one does (route 4 to Bletchley). Something is wrong, and the public transport section of MK council (I assume) need to put it right. Either:

-update realtime information for the marked stop, and give the unmarked stop a bus stop pole/flag
or (more likely)
-update realtime information for the marked stop, and delete the other one completely.

Please let me know how you get on. Can you confirm that only route 4 goes this way?
 
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OuterDistant

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Propertywide shows stations that have never even existed!

This listing claims that the nearest stations are "Grange Junction" and "Newcastle Junction", and I've only ever seen those as TOPS location codes.
 

jopsuk

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Bus stops are shown on Open Street Map where the data has been entered. The better view is if you click in the top right and select "Transport Map"- this strips away much of the data but shows which roads busses run along, with route numbers. It groups stops that share the same name and marks the offical stop name.
However, the stops aren't clickable, so you can't bring up timetable information etc.
 

34D

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Bus stops are shown on Open Street Map where the data has been entered. The better view is if you click in the top right and select "Transport Map"- this strips away much of the data but shows which roads busses run along, with route numbers. It groups stops that share the same name and marks the offical stop name.
However, the stops aren't clickable, so you can't bring up timetable information etc.

This is interesting. I've looked at a few areas and there are a lot of omissions, but not bad at all.
 

jopsuk

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Given that it works on a similar principle to wikipedia in as much as anyone can edit it, if you have reliable data and are technically competant you can add what is missing yourself.
 

MK Tom

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I'll check this when I'm on a PC, but there are often 'unmarked' naptans in addition to marked ones.

Looking at the two SE-bound stops shown on that map-link, both appear to be valid stops.

The one with the shelter is referred to by google as "Great Holm, os Great Holm Local Centre (On Kensington Drive)" mltdag and the one that is unmarked is "Great Holm, Corsham Court, SEbound (On Kensington Drive)" mltdat

From the naptan database:

AtcoCode NaptanCode PlateCode CleardownCode CommonName CommonNameLang ShortCommonName ShortCommonNameLang Landmark LandmarkLang Street StreetLang Crossing CrossingLang Indicator IndicatorLang Bearing NptgLocalityCode LocalityName ParentLocalityName GrandParentLocalityName Town TownLang Suburb SuburbLang LocalityCentre GridType Easting Northing Longitude Latitude StopType BusStopType TimingStatus


49003945827 mltdag Great Holm Local Centre Great Holm Community Centre Kensington Drive o/s SE N0064969 Great Holm Milton Keynes Milton Keynes Great Holm 1 U 482785 237998 -0.79461 52.03423 BCT MKD OTH

49003945843 mltdat Corsham Court Corsham Court Kensington Drive SE-bound SE N0064969 Great Holm Milton Keynes Milton Keynes Great Holm 1 U 482755 238023 -0.79504 52.03446 BCT MKD OTH 32 2006-03-07T00:00:00 2010-10-11T11:34:00 5 rev act

Both are shown as MKD under bus stop type, MKD denotes "On-street Bus / Coach /Trolleybus Stop" where the alternatives are CUS "Custom / Unmarked stop" HAR "Hail & Ride zone" or FLX "flexible zone".

I also note that the marked stop doesn't appear to have any bus services loaded into it, but that the unmarked one does (route 4 to Bletchley). Something is wrong, and the public transport section of MK council (I assume) need to put it right. Either:

-update realtime information for the marked stop, and give the unmarked stop a bus stop pole/flag
or (more likely)
-update realtime information for the marked stop, and delete the other one completely.

Please let me know how you get on. Can you confirm that only route 4 goes this way?

The physical stops were built in 2007 when route 4 was upgraded from a hail-and-ride route into a route with platform/shelter stops throughout. I'm guessing the other stop is a hangover from before that happened. At this point this is the only route the 4 takes.

A full map of all MK bus services can be found here: http://www.milton-keynes.gov.uk/transport/documents/MK_Urban_Map.pdf - the 4 is the red line and the section in question is just west of the city centre.
 

citybus

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I suppose the problem with something like Open Street Map is that editing it is beyond the ken of anyone who isn't a very experienced computer programmer, even the wikipedia staff acknowledge that this is a big problem for them in attracting contributors. It's a pity because while anyone with local knowledge and a road map (and experience of using all your town's bus & train routes) can easily draw this stuff out on paper, it's much more likely that this info is going to be uploaded by a technically gifted albeit un-streetwise person who is likely to make mistakes.
 

34D

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I suppose the problem with something like Open Street Map is that editing it is beyond the ken of anyone who isn't a very experienced computer programmer, even the wikipedia staff acknowledge that this is a big problem for them in attracting contributors. It's a pity because while anyone with local knowledge and a road map (and experience of using all your town's bus & train routes) can easily draw this stuff out on paper, it's much more likely that this info is going to be uploaded by a technically gifted albeit un-streetwise person who is likely to make mistakes.

Could someone talk through the update process? How skilled does one need to be?
 

Deerfold

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34D :

I've navigated to Ripon Road (A61) and found bus stops near to Bluefin Insurance Services [this was the first bus stop I came to - no other reason].

When I click on the blue bus stop icon it brings up the name of the bus stop in a rectangular icon. Clicking that I get a page with the option of going to a map (where I've just come from!) or to get directions, then scheduled depatures (in this case schedules unknown), then a list of nearby stations (?) - which in this case lists (among others) Harrogate bus station. Clicking that I get a bus route (561) with some strange sort of times, in this case - Route 561 Victoria coach station arr 1210, Knaresborough 1825, Ripon bus station 2105.

HTH.


The strange times are because this is a coach route - the Victoria being London Victoria.

The 561 is roughly hourly from London-Leeds with a couple a day continuing to Harrogate and then Knaresborough *or* Ripon.

The times do match up with the second journey of the day to London and both Northbound journeys:

http://www.nationalexpress.com/destinations/timetables/561.pdf
 

maniacmartin

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Could someone talk through the update process? How skilled does one need to be?

I contributed to OpenStreetMap a while ago now, so they probably have better software now than when I did it. There are two main data sources - old maps that are out of copyright and data you have harvested yourself.

To harvest yourself, I used the GPS in my mobile phone and walked/cycled/drove around the streets in my local area. At the junctions of roads I stopped and took pictures of the street name signs with my phone, which automatically tags with the GPS co-ordinates.

Back at home on the computer I used their Java software which imports the GPS data and overlays it over the top of the existing OpenStreetMap data they already have. It also overlays buttons you can click on to see your photos over the places in the map where they were taken. From there its just a case of clicking the photos, reading the road names, seeing theres a bus stop etc, then using the tool to add this information to the map.

I'm sure there are other ways, and its all detailed in their wiki quite extensively and not too hard once you've got everything setup
 
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jopsuk

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As an aside, apparently the new Iphone iOS6 mapping is rather shocking on this front. As an example, Wimbledon station isn't marked. At all. Not as a mainline station, a bus interchange, an LU station or a Tramlink stop. Yet all other Tramlink stops are.
 

Jordeh

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As an aside, apparently the new Iphone iOS6 mapping is rather shocking on this front. As an example, Wimbledon station isn't marked. At all. Not as a mainline station, a bus interchange, an LU station or a Tramlink stop. Yet all other Tramlink stops are.
Indeed, and of course the ability to use the Maps application for public transport directions has been removed :(
 
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