Publicity/Bus Stops in major urban areas

[duncombec]

There have been some recent posts on the London news thread regarding bus stop publicity, maps, etc., but I didn't want to take that one off topic. I thought about limiting this to the "PTE" areas [PTE = Public Transport Executive... in inverted commas because I can't remember what they are currently called), but there are also some other major urban areas (e.g. Greater Bristol, Cardiff, Newcastle, Edinburgh) that wouldn't be covered.

The I've chosen these areas in particular because they should be some of the better places for urban public transport (simply put: lots of potential users) and the easiest to spread your publicity far and wide, but they all seem to handle things differently. Most have also favoured a more London-style of control at some point or another, whether or not to any great benefits (I recall various jokes on the 'Ptegosaurus', wanting to go back to the past). It will be hard to comment on printed publicity during covid periods, so let's try and limit that to pre-covid times, or known and announced changes, rather than just "not at the moment".

Please: there are more than enough other threads to discuss the rights and wrongs of deregulation and how wonderful things are in certain European countries. Let's try and keep this specifically to factual comment on the current situation, rather than how much better it would be if we lived in utopia!

My "PTE" thoughts - intrigued to hear more up-to-date notes, particularly regarding at bus stops, and in other large cities.

London: Near non-existent. Printed publicity is all but, bar the tube map and the occasional advert, because everything can be handled online in some way or another. Bus stop publicity is vague and not always up to date, and getting worse even before Covid. Budget problems seem to be the cause, but also an unwillingness to let others step in. Journey planner not always cleverly designed, as will give users non TfL services (e.g. commuter coaches*) without clearly stating that Oyster cards weren't valid.

Manchester: Not sure what current plans are with printed publicity, but seem to have resumed. Maps are suspicious (latest set now somewhat out of date, and less useful than the previous versions), and timetables are basic, but contain the most useful information - some form of timetable, a basic map, and details of operator contacts and travelshop opening times. Seem willing to allow operators to do their own thing (Transdev). Bus stops were pretty good last time I visited - the 192 leaflet may say "frequent service", but the bus stop would give a list of times. Website seems a little confusing, but it's usually all there somewhere.

Merseyside: Always used to be good at both, but I think I saw leaflets are no longer being printed. Is that the case with maps? Leaflets were similar to Manchester, only mildly more exciting. The maps in them were idiosyncratic at best, seemingly at the same scale regardless of how many pages were needed. Didn't see anything from an operator. Don't recall bus stops.

West Midlands: Leaflets for (nearly?) every service, probably one of the better "PTE" creations, likewise with maps. Having two major operators seems to help keep things simple. I seem to recall bus stops were fairly good?

West Yorkshire: Booklets were basic, but did the job. Basic timetable, basic map. Like Manchester, very much a case of "standard format". I think I heard the print runs are being drastically reduced? Maps are produced but seem to be well protected - last time I went they were available, but only behind the counter (whereas timetables were freely grabbable). Bus stops also seem good, and willing to allow operators (Transdev) to put their own branding up. (Nice mural at Wakefield).

South Yorkshire: As "FBB"** of the Public Transport Experience blog tells us at least five times a calendar month, dismal. "It's all online". No printed publicity, and bus stops also seem to be lacking?

Strathclyde: Seem to only be interested in their own tendered operations - everything else gets left to the operators. Commercial services barely get a mention on their website (unlike the others). No maps. As such, little attempt to market things as a "network". Too long since I visited to recall bus stops.

* I have experienced this personally, many times. Try telling a tourist with limited English somewhere along Commercial Road at 8am in the morning on tube strike day that their oyster cards aren't valid, wait for them to produce their phone...
** The chosen moniker of its author.

 

[johncrossley]

Out of the above, only GM have continually listed service numbers on all bus stop flags since before 1986 and some of the above still don't, even though this is arguably more important than printed timetables, and essential if no timetables are displayed at the bus stop. Obviously that job became vastly more difficult after 1986 but they try to keep up with the latest route changes. Even London used to just have red request stops without service numbers.

The trouble with printed timetables has always been that they nearly always only the start date, rarely the end date, so you have to double check the times before travelling anyway. That's the main reason for sticking to online timetables only. In other countries, printed timetables often used to have an end date. Printed timetables are now becoming rare, but pdf timetables are still usually produced in most places, and those show the end date. Maps also should have a start and end date.

 

[PeterC]

Out of the above, only GM have continually listed service numbers on all bus stop flags since before 1986 and some of the above still don't, even though this is arguably more important than printed timetables, and essential if no timetables are displayed at the bus stop. Obviously that job became vastly more difficult after 1986 but they try to keep up with the latest route changes. Even London used to just have red request stops without service numbers.

The trouble with printed timetables has always been that they nearly always only the start date, rarely the end date, so you have to double check the times before travelling anyway. That's the main reason for sticking to online timetables only. In other countries, printed timetables often used to have an end date. Printed timetables are now becoming rare, but pdf timetables are still usually produced in most places, and those show the end date. Maps also should have a start and end date.

From a customer point of view it would be nice to have fixed dates for timetable updates which would give confidence that you have the latest information if you are an occasional traveller. Today my local council's website shows 3 different dates for changes to individual services in the coming month.

 

[johnnychips]

During Covid, nearly all South Yorkshire’s bus stop information was covered up with Covid stuff, which was really annoying. Now it’s getting back to normal and I think it’s pretty good apart from one thing. It says, for example on the 221 from Doncaster to Rotherham, something like ‘journeys [with the times] in red [not black] will terminate at Mexborough, Swinton or Rawmarsh’ but it doesn’t tell you which.

 

[geoffk]

When I moved from Greater Manchester, timetable displays were becoming out of date, I assumed because of staff cuts (and that was before Covid). I can now report on Exeter, where at-stop information is generally good, but only for Stagecoach services, which are the majority. Timetable sheets are in small print though. Bus stop flags have route numbers, again only for Stagecoach. Rural services run by independent operators are publicised by Devon County Council at main city centre stops. DCC has reissued its timetable books, of which there are six, covering all the administrative county EXCEPT Exeter. Stagecoach does not produce any timetable leaflets. My impression is that Devon does well compared to many other shire counties.

 

[miklcct]

That's the main reason for sticking to online timetables only. In other countries, printed timetables often used to have an end date. Printed timetables are now becoming rare, but pdf timetables are still usually produced in most places, and those show the end date. Maps also should have a start and end date.

Which country are you referring to? I have never seen a timetable having an end date because we never know when the next service revision it will be. In some cases, a printed timetable was stuck for a decade, in the format of the old operator because the routing and the timetable never changed for a whole decade.

Here is an example:

This picture was taken in 2007 but the timetable was produced in 1998 in the format of an old operator which went out of business in 1998. It was only replaced when a fare change in 2008 forcing it to be replaced.

 

[johncrossley]

Which country are you referring to? I have never seen a timetable having an end date because we never know when the next service revision it will be. In some cases, a printed timetable was stuck for a decade, in the format of the old operator because the routing and the timetable never changed for a whole decade.

I'm mostly talking about some of our neighbouring European countries (for example Belgium, the Netherlands and Switzerland) who change bus timetables on the same date as the European train timetable change date, which is usually the second Sunday in December, so that bus and train times can be coordinated. The timetable in the new year may be the same as in the last one, so they just change the end date to a year later.

 

[miklcct]

I'm mostly talking about some of our neighbouring European countries (for example Belgium, the Netherlands and Switzerland) who change bus timetables on the same date as the European train timetable change date, which is usually the second Sunday in December, so that bus and train times can be coordinated. The timetable in the new year may be the same as in the last one, so they just change the end date to a year later.

It will be a major work if all the timetables need to be changed at once in the whole city every year which involves updating more than 10k sheets of paper in a single night. How do they manage it?

 

[johncrossley]

It will be a major work if all the timetables need to be changed at once in the whole city every year which involves updating more than 10k sheets of paper in a single night. How do they manage it?

I haven't seen the changeover happen but I doubt it is that big a deal. It is only a once a year event after all. It must be preferable to the frequent timetable changes that you get in some British cities.

 

[Deerfold]

Most bus timetables at West Yorkshire bus stops were removed last year (ironically the weekend my services went back to pre-Covid times after months of the information being wrong). Their maps regularly have mistakes - it usually takes a month to six weeks for them to correct each error I point out to them). The maps used to be very good - I still think they're very very clear.

They really seem to be struggling to produce even online bus information at the moment - the last set of service changes refers to First changes but has no details of them and has several other changes missing. They still had the timetables for some removed services on their site 3 days after the last changes, and they did have some new timetables which there was no reference to anywhere else on their website (I only knew about it as someone posted about a new route on another forum).

 

[Andyh82]

Most bus timetables at West Yorkshire bus stops were removed last year (ironically the weekend my services went back to pre-Covid times after months of the information being wrong). Their maps regularly have mistakes - it usually takes a month to six weeks for them to correct each error I point out to them). The maps used to be very good - I still think they're very very clear.

They really seem to be struggling to produce even online bus information at the moment - the last set of service changes refers to First changes but has no details of them and has several other changes missing. They still had the timetables for some removed services on their site 3 days after the last changes, and they did have some new timetables which there was no reference to anywhere else on their website (I only knew about it as someone posted about a new route on another forum).

Bus Stop Timetables are starting to return again now by the way, I wouldn’t like to say they are 100% back, but they are significantly back

 

[Deerfold]

Bus Stop Timetables are starting to return again now by the way, I wouldn’t like to say they are 100% back, but they are significantly back

They're certainly not 100% back. Plenty missing in the Keighley area (one of my local buses had changes to most daytime journeys last week which you might have thought a good point to return them).

 

[The exile]

It will be a major work if all the timetables need to be changed at once in the whole city every year which involves updating more than 10k sheets of paper in a single night. How do they manage it?

Doubt there are many areas with over 10,000 bus stops ( only 1 sheet required for each). From what I remember, stops with larger displays (shelters) would display both in parallel from some time before the change date. I can remember being on a last tram of an evening (can’t remember where) where a bloke with a bucket of paste got off at every stop and slapped a new timetable on top of the old one at every stop, but I would imagine the norm is to pull a few people off normal duties from late Saturday evening and send them round in a van. As each stop will have a bespoke sheet, it’s easy to spot if any have been missed. Doesn’t stop mistakes like at my nearest bus stops, which have got each other’s timetable ( ie the one for the wrong side of the road)

 

[Man of Kent]

Doubt there are many areas with over 10,000 bus stops ( only 1 sheet required for each). From what I remember, stops with larger displays (shelters) would display both in parallel from some time before the change date. I can remember being on a last tram of an evening (can’t remember where) where a bloke with a bucket of paste got off at every stop and slapped a new timetable on top of the old one at every stop, but I would imagine the norm is to pull a few people off normal duties from late Saturday evening and send them round in a van. As each stop will have a bespoke sheet, it’s easy to spot if any have been missed. Doesn’t stop mistakes like at my nearest bus stops, which have got each other’s timetable ( ie the one for the wrong side of the road)

From various sources, the number of stops is:
West Yorkshire >8000
Greater Manchester circa 12,000
West Midlands >12,200
Kent, Essex, Hampshire and Lancashire, as the largest shire counties, are all in the five figure category (though likely fewer with timetable cases).
Depending on the format, considerably more pieces of paper may have to be posted - some authorities print all information on a single sheet, others have multiple pieces of (typically) A4 for each route serving that stop.

 

[The exile]

From various sources, the number of stops is:
West Yorkshire >8000
Greater Manchester circa 12,000
West Midlands >12,200
Kent, Essex, Hampshire and Lancashire, as the largest shire counties, are all in the five figure category (though likely fewer with timetable cases).
Depending on the format, considerably more pieces of paper may have to be posted - some authorities print all information on a single sheet, others have multiple pieces of (typically) A4 for each route serving that stop.

Well, you learn something new every day! As to the number of pieces of paper to print - that’s a consequence of choice - if you have standardised timetable change dates, there is no need to have more than one sheet per stop - unless it is served by so many services that the information won’t fit on one sheet.

 

[Deerfold]

Further to my earlier comments the standard of timetable information at stops has reduced in West Yorkshire.
In the 90s they had full timetables but apparently these were too difficult to understand.

So now they just have a list of departure times for each route and list of places and which services call there. No indication how long they take or which might be the quicker service.

These aren't always right. At my local stop the first place listed is "Airedale Hospital" followed by "All services".

The 66 does stop there. So does the M4.
The hourly 903 has one trip which misses it out. The half hourly 62 only serves it once a day. Metro seem uninterested in correcting this.

At my old local stop there's no mention that 2 of the routes take up to twice as long to some destinations as another 2 which go along the main road.

 

[175mph]

In Scunthorpe, there is one road where the bus stop timetable hasn't been updated since July 2005, never mind more recently despite there still being regular buses serving that stop and refers to a route that's long since been withdrawn and across the road, not been updated since April 2006 and again, refers to withdrawn routes and one that remains to this day, but had it's route number changed.

 

[cnjb8]

I find Nottingham to be quite good with updating info, but during covid they didn’t really do owt to them. Nottinghamshire is okay, but they keep putting the wrong route numbers on stop flags. Derbyshire, they are not good at all, but to be fair they have a significantly higher number of bus stops to take care of.

 

[Andyh82]

In West Yorkshire, Metro are pretty good. Near enough every bus stop has a printed timetable (ignoring the Covid era) and most busy stops that have room for a shelter will also have a real time display. The printed timetables have the issue of intermediate stop times being computer generated but that’s something most areas will have the issue with.

Bus stop flags only list destinations rather than service numbers, but the later has returned on new style flags in Leeds. They’d previously stopped displaying numbers probably in the early 00s when First and Arriva went through extensive frequent service changes, rationalising from the old style 90s networks to the current day ‘Overground’ style networks, and it became too big a job to keep them up to date. In reality networks are fairly static these days so they could have retuned them years ago.

Maps are still produced online and have actually only been updated in the past week.

Printed materials were supposed to be being reduced in some form in 2020, but then Covid hit and every single thing (not just stuff that was out of date) was removed due to it apparently being a way to contract Covid. It isn’t currently known what if anything will be reintroduced. Currently only Transdev services (although for the pedants I should point out there are a tiny number that don’t have a timetable and at only Team Pennine D1 has one due to them having only taken over last week) have printed timetables. Arriva have also closed the Travel Centre they ran on Metro’s behalf in Wakefield, so you wouldn’t be able to pick up timetables there even if there were any.

Online information can still be a bit shaky due to the traffic commissioners still allowing short notice changes, so Metro don’t have 56 days available to pull everything together.

 

[Deerfold]

In West Yorkshire, Metro are pretty good. Near enough every bus stop has a printed timetable (ignoring the Covid era) and most busy stops that have room for a shelter will also have a real time display. The printed timetables have the issue of intermediate stop times being computer generated but that’s something most areas will have the issue with.

That's not true in my area. I'd estimate less than 50% of stops with shelters also have a realtime display, but I'm way out from a city centre.

Maps are still produced online and have actually only been updated in the past week.

That might mean they've made the corrections I pointed out to them. Quality control seems to be poor - I send a lot of messages to Metro about mistakes. Which reminds me. I need to go and tell them (again) that buses 962 and X52 don't stop at stop 45014145 because they need to be in the right hand lane turning as they pass it - I've been telling them about this for over 3 years so far.

Printed materials were supposed to be being reduced in some form in 2020, but then Covid hit and every single thing (not just stuff that was out of date) was removed due to it apparently being a way to contract Covid. It isn’t currently known what if anything will be reintroduced. Currently only Transdev services and Team Pennine D1 have printed timetables. Arriva have also closed the Travel Centre they ran on Metro’s behalf in Wakefield, so you wouldn’t be able to pick up timetables there even if there were any.

Team Pennine are part of Transdev.

Online information can still be a bit shaky due to the traffic commissioners still allowing short notice changes, so Metro don’t have 56 days available to pull everything together.

Unfortunately it usually takes a week or more after I've pointed out they've got incorrect information for it to be corrected. There are changes still missing from the service change leaflet for over a week ago including completely new services.

 

[TUC]

From a customer point of view it would be nice to have fixed dates for timetable updates which would give confidence that you have the latest information if you are an occasional traveller. Today my local council's website shows 3 different dates for changes to individual services in the coming month.

West Yorkshire Metro agreed this with bus operators at one stage, but bizarrely managed to turn it into a negative, issuing posters advising 'Warning: Your bus service could change up to four times a year, on the following dates....'

 

[route101]

The timetable on my nearest First bus stop is from 2019. Also displayed is a defunct X16 timetable.

 

[Deerfold]

Timetable on my nearest First bus stop is from 2019. Also displayed is defunct X16 timetable.

Do you want to share where you are?

 

[duncombec]

Finally getting back to my own thread...

Firstly, I forgot (ouch!) that Newcastle is, of course, covered by Nexus and thus should have been included in my initial summary. That said, I've never been and don't hear a lot about them, so have no idea what their publicity is like. I do know they have a rather dull livery for tendered services, though (grey... hardly says "use the bus"!)

From a customer point of view it would be nice to have fixed dates for timetable updates which would give confidence that you have the latest information if you are an occasional traveller. Today my local council's website shows 3 different dates for changes to individual services in the coming month.

If I remember correctly, Manchester have this (or at least strongly encourage it), and I thought West Yorks/Metro did too. Oxfordshire also used to encourage operators to keep to their tendered services change dates, but since they stopped supporting large numbers of services that seems to have fallen by the wayside. Do other areas also have this "encouragement"?

During Covid, nearly all South Yorkshire’s bus stop information was covered up with Covid stuff, which was really annoying. Now it’s getting back to normal and I think it’s pretty good apart from one thing. It says, for example on the 221 from Doncaster to Rotherham, something like ‘journeys [with the times] in red [not black] will terminate at Mexborough, Swinton or Rawmarsh’ but it doesn’t tell you which.

Interesting to see a second opinion other than the 'well-known' one on the blog. Not stating which short destination does seem a bit of an own goal.

[...] I can now report on Exeter, where at-stop information is generally good, but only for Stagecoach services, which are the majority. Timetable sheets are in small print though. Bus stop flags have route numbers, again only for Stagecoach. Rural services run by independent operators are publicised by Devon County Council at main city centre stops. DCC has reissued its timetable books, of which there are six, covering all the administrative county EXCEPT Exeter. Stagecoach does not produce any timetable leaflets. My impression is that Devon does well compared to many other shire counties.

Devon does do really well in comparison to other shire counties. Noting that the stops only have Stagecoach numbers, is that for clarity (because of limited service on other routes), or because Stagecoach manage the stops on behalf of the council? Am I correct in thinking there are some services in Exeter city not operated by Stagecoach that are thus not covered by the DCC books?

West Yorkshire [...] maps regularly have mistakes - it usually takes a month to six weeks for them to correct each error I point out to them). The maps used to be very good - I still think they're very very clear.

West Yorks maps are good - a similar standard to those used in the previous set in Manchester, before they went to line diagrams. Are the errors fresh errors each time, or repeated from previous editions (as in the published file is being updated, but not the base file)? Do you find them responsive, or is it a matter of "as you've complained, we'll begrudingly do it"?

In the 90s they had full timetables but apparently these were too difficult to understand.

So now they just have a list of departure times for each route and list of places and which services call there. No indication how long they take or which might be the quicker service.

This is an interesting point, as there does seem to be a big gulf between enthusiasts/regular users, who feel comfortable reading a timetable, and irregular users, who do have issues with trying to work out departure and arrival times at unlisted stops in the middle of a frequency block with no stated times (the "then every 12 minutes until" variety). Well-done departure lists can be better than timetables.

Nottinghamshire is okay, but they keep putting the wrong route numbers on stop flags. Derbyshire, they are not good at all, but to be fair they have a significantly higher number of bus stops to take care of.

Is that because they keep moving bus stops around, so the numbers don't match entirely, or are they more minor errors, such as numbering a stop not served by a route that turns off just before it? Derbyshire are generally considered one of the stand-outs with regard to printed publicity with their three books: do they perhaps favour the books over the stops?

That's not true in my area. [...]

Noting the variety of outcomes in the West Yorks metro area, who is responsible for the displays? Does WY Metro handle everything, or is it deputized to the local councils/operators?

West Yorkshire Metro agreed this with bus operators at one stage, but bizarrely managed to turn it into a negative, issuing posters advising 'Warning: Your bus service could change up to four times a year, on the following dates....'

Warning: Your service might change for the better. More buses during the day, a later evening service, and new journeys on Sundays. "Warning" doesn't seem like the most logical of styles!

 

[Deerfold]

West Yorks maps are good - a similar standard to those used in the previous set in Manchester, before they went to line diagrams. Are the errors fresh errors each time, or repeated from previous editions (as in the published file is being updated, but not the base file)? Do you find them responsive, or is it a matter of "as you've complained, we'll begrudingly do it"?

They usually reply, but sometimes need a push or two for the map errors. There's bus stops which erroneously get included as being on routes they're not on, such as as the Brook Street stop in Ilkley and the Station Road stop in Sowerby Bridge where there's a junction near the stop and turning services use a stop just after the junction - in ilkley this results in timetables and the next stop sign showing the 962, X52 and X84 routes, and in Sowerby Bridge the 577/9. The map errors tend to be different each time, the oddest one recently being the use of the 884 number instead of the 821 throughout a map never served by the 884. The stop errors tend to re-occur after a timetable change even though I point out they keep happening.

This is an interesting point, as there does seem to be a big gulf between enthusiasts/regular users, who feel comfortable reading a timetable, and irregular users, who do have issues with trying to work out departure and arrival times at unlisted stops in the middle of a frequency block with no stated times (the "then every 12 minutes until" variety). Well-done departure lists can be better than timetables.

They can, but that doesn't seem to be what Metro is doing - it would be easy to get on a 62 at my local stop, thinking it goes to the Hospital (and due to the timings it's usually just in front of the bus that does a circuit of the hospital grounds). From my old local stop it's not obvious which the fast and slow routes are.

They're obviously produced from a database with no manual input or limits used, so on a circular a bus stop just outside a town centre, will list that it's 90 minutes to the town centre when you'd be better crossing the road and going two stops (or just walking).

Noting the variety of outcomes in the West Yorks metro area, who is responsible for the displays? Does WY Metro handle everything, or is it deputized to the local councils/operators?

WYmetro handles everything, but certain areas seem to get a better service.

One service change they managed to spectacularly stuff everything up and I had to report incorrect timetables 5 times at my 2 local stops. They managed to have both old and new times listed, then they had all buses going to the end of the route when only half did, produced a display which had the times in the wrong direction, but only for 1 route, they put them on the wrong sides of the road...it took nearly 3 months for the stops to have correct timetables. Of course, at the moment, they've had none for over a year.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Interesting. I live just outside CUBA (Counties that Used to Be Avon) and the TravelWest umbrella but it varies from Local Authority. They have service numbers on some stops on particular corridors in Bristol but they are years out of date; services that were culled 4-5 years ago. Think Bath has not updated roadside publicity for a while because of Covid. Interestingly, Wiltshire (over the border in non-CUBA land) has been excellent at updating info as services have changed over the last year.

 

[cnjb8]

Finally getting back to my own thread...

Firstly, I forgot (ouch!) that Newcastle is, of course, covered by Nexus and thus should have been included in my initial summary. That said, I've never been and don't hear a lot about them, so have no idea what their publicity is like. I do know they have a rather dull livery for tendered services, though (grey... hardly says "use the bus"!)

If I remember correctly, Manchester have this (or at least strongly encourage it), and I thought West Yorks/Metro did too. Oxfordshire also used to encourage operators to keep to their tendered services change dates, but since they stopped supporting large numbers of services that seems to have fallen by the wayside. Do other areas also have this "encouragement"?

Interesting to see a second opinion other than the 'well-known' one on the blog. Not stating which short destination does seem a bit of an own goal.

Devon does do really well in comparison to other shire counties. Noting that the stops only have Stagecoach numbers, is that for clarity (because of limited service on other routes), or because Stagecoach manage the stops on behalf of the council? Am I correct in thinking there are some services in Exeter city not operated by Stagecoach that are thus not covered by the DCC books?

West Yorks maps are good - a similar standard to those used in the previous set in Manchester, before they went to line diagrams. Are the errors fresh errors each time, or repeated from previous editions (as in the published file is being updated, but not the base file)? Do you find them responsive, or is it a matter of "as you've complained, we'll begrudingly do it"?

This is an interesting point, as there does seem to be a big gulf between enthusiasts/regular users, who feel comfortable reading a timetable, and irregular users, who do have issues with trying to work out departure and arrival times at unlisted stops in the middle of a frequency block with no stated times (the "then every 12 minutes until" variety). Well-done departure lists can be better than timetables.

Is that because they keep moving bus stops around, so the numbers don't match entirely, or are they more minor errors, such as numbering a stop not served by a route that turns off just before it? Derbyshire are generally considered one of the stand-outs with regard to printed publicity with their three books: do they perhaps favour the books over the stops?

Noting the variety of outcomes in the West Yorks metro area, who is responsible for the displays? Does WY Metro handle everything, or is it deputized to the local councils/operators?

Warning: Your service might change for the better. More buses during the day, a later evening service, and new journeys on Sundays. "Warning" doesn't seem like the most logical of styles!

Answering the Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire bit. For Nottinghamshire, they keep numbering stops for routes that go nowhere near that stop I keep finding. I’d say Derbyshire has focused more on other things than bus stops so they’ve fallen to the wayside a bit. In the towns it’s good but rural, not so good

 

[johncrossley]

West Yorkshire Metro agreed this with bus operators at one stage, but bizarrely managed to turn it into a negative, issuing posters advising 'Warning: Your bus service could change up to four times a year, on the following dates....'

Four times a year is still ridiculously frequent, though. Considering that frequent changes is widely considered to be one of the reasons for deregulation hurting patronage, you would have thought that operators would have learned by now.

 

[Andyh82]

In West Yorkshire it’s 6, although of course not every service will change every time, just that if there is going to be a change, it’ll be on one of those 6 dates rather than any possible date

This years dates are

Bus service change dates 2021:

Saturday 20 February
Saturday 15 May
Sunday 25 July
Saturday 4 September
Saturday 23 October
Saturday 11 December

The December one is usually very small and coincides with the rail timetable change

Also it is technically 'the weekend of' those dates, as for example Arriva Yorkshire (the ex-Yorkshire Woollen half) always change their services on Saturdays, most do it on Sundays

There have of course been timetable changes at other dates this year due to lockdowns and restrictions easing

 

[duncombec]

[...] The stop errors tend to re-occur after a timetable change even though I point out they keep happening.

[...] They're obviously produced from a database with no manual input or limits used, so on a circular a bus stop just outside a town centre, will list that it's 90 minutes to the town centre when you'd be better crossing the road and going two stops (or just walking).

The map issue sounds to me like an issue with some background data, and they are only correcting the foreground data that the public sees. As for the timetables, that really is quite poor: you'd have thought someone would have adjusted the output - either with a point half way around the loop, or the halfway point added as a via (so it would say "Town Centre" one way, and "Surburbia, Town Centre" the other).

Four times a year is still ridiculously frequent, though. Considering that frequent changes is widely considered to be one of the reasons for deregulation hurting patronage, you would have thought that operators would have learned by now.

I did ask that this thread be kept to factual comment, and this seems to be opinion. I'm currently reading pre-NBC history, and it's clear anyone who thinks they only changed times twice a year with the new timetable book is mistaken - some services lasted a matter of one summer period before withdrawal: hardly stable.
Please feel free to detail the at stop or printed publicity in a non-London urban area in keeping with the spirit of the thread!