Pulling of the emergency handle

[Panda]

Standing waiting for a train in SWR land this morning, I heard the announcement saying that if you feel ill, not to pull the emergency handle. This reminded me of the thread where the gist of the messaging was for customers not to fear contacting the BTP, no matter how small.

The message this morning made me wonder what the circumstances would be to pull the emergency handle and even if it presented itself, how many people would be less inclined to use it given the message and the tone of it.

If we are going to be told that in some perceived emergency situations we should not use the handle, should be not be told when it is acceptable (and with told, I mean give me a poster or something - not some more noise pollution to my ears - travelling my train without my noise cancelling earphones is tiring due to the number of pointless, repetitive announcements).

 

[Bertie the bus]

You are told when to use it – in an emergency. There are also notices telling you to use it if items are trapped in the door, etc.

The announcement about not using it if you feel unwell isn’t threatening or sinister but basic common sense. It is much easier to get help at a station than stuck in the middle of nowhere where paramedics or whatever can’t access.

 

[Chris M]

I think @Panda was looking for some sort of guidance on what does constitute an emergency to complement the guidance that feeling unwell is not one.
While I haven't heard SWR's announcements about this issue, I am familiar with those used by TfL who stress the actions you should take "if you feel unwell seek help at the next station" and why "we can provide help more quickly and easily at stations" which (imho) exactly the right thing to do rather than stressing not doing something as it seems the announcement the OP heard did.

 

[Intermodal]

Situations where I would pull the handle:

• An item trapped in the door, or a person being dragged during dispatch
• A medical emergency during dispatch (passenger collapsed, etc). I wouldn't pull it en-route.
• A broken window, or door
• A large fire on the train (depending on circumstances - a small fire I would attempt to fight, or evacuate the carriage and contact the guard to stop at a location where aid can reach us)
• A train leaving the station I am due to disembark at with an unreasonable dwell time (this would have to be seconds, such as Merseyrail where they often do 1-5 second dispatches - I would not hesitate to press the button if they had not given me time to disembark)
• Something clearly untoward with the behaviour of the rolling stock (e.g. a large bump in the ride and then a grinding sound)
• If my coffee got spilt and I needed a new one from the trolley ASAP (morning services)

I'm sure others would present themselves!

 

[Bertie the bus]

I think @Panda was looking for some sort of guidance on what does constitute an emergency to complement the guidance that feeling unwell is not one.

I'm sure you're right but I'm just as sure everybody doesn't need specific guidance on every aspect of life. An emergency is an emergency. As a medical emergency is also an emergency it seems entirely appropriate to specifically state don't use it in that situation.

We don't need posters detailing every single possible emergency that can occur on a train.

 

[Intermodal]

We don't need posters detailing every single possible emergency that can occur on a train.

Clearly you are in the know - but this is a forum for people interested in railways and as such I see absolutely no problem with discussing things that can happen on railways. This is not fight club, we are allowed to talk about things.

 

[Bertie the bus]

You completely misunderstood my comment. I meant posters on trains or stations, as referred to by the OP, not people posting on a forum.

 

[Intermodal]

You completely misunderstood my comment. I meant posters on trains or stations, as referred to by the OP, not people posting on a forum.

My apologies sir.

 

[westv]

Situations where I would pull the handle:

• An item trapped in the door, or a person being dragged during dispatch
• A medical emergency during dispatch (passenger collapsed, etc). I wouldn't pull it en-route.
• A broken window, or door
• A large fire on the train (depending on circumstances - a small fire I would attempt to fight, or evacuate the carriage and contact the guard to stop at a location where aid can reach us)
• A train leaving the station I am due to disembark at with an unreasonable dwell time (this would have to be seconds, such as Merseyrail where they often do 1-5 second dispatches - I would not hesitate to press the button if they had not given me time to disembark)
• Something clearly untoward with the behaviour of the rolling stock (e.g. a large bump in the ride and then a grinding sound)
• If my coffee got spilt and I needed a new one from the trolley ASAP (morning services)

I'm sure others would present themselves!

I can understand the importance of the last point... but the rest? Trivial in comparison.

 

[noddingdonkey]

Would this be on stock where the passcom immediately dumps the brakes rather then allowing the passenger to speak to the driver?

 

[Panda]

It was an announcement on the station not on the train.

I just think it's sending a message that the handle isn't for all emergencies and it might deter people from using it when it should be used. If they are going to put a message out about when not to use it, it might be worthwhile explaining the point of them (something along the lines of when you need the train to stop immediately rather than at a station - this is not obvious to everyone).

 

[krus_aragon]

Would this be on stock where the passcom immediately dumps the brakes rather then allowing the passenger to speak to the driver?

The lay traveller isn't likely to know which type of stock they're on until they pull the emergency handle.

(Okay, they may have read the notice next to the lever, and noted different wording from train to train...)

 

[Intermodal]

Would this be on stock where the passcom immediately dumps the brakes rather then allowing the passenger to speak to the driver?

My list was designed with that in mind, yes. Clearly the list would change if I knew I was only going to alert the driver - I'd happily pull it in all cases of medical emergency, fire, passenger disruption then.

 

[AlexNL]

Alstom recently put up some advice on when you should and when you shouldn't use the emergency handle:

http://3minutesstop.alstom.com/infographie/sound-alarm-not-question/

 

[Adlington]

It is much easier to get help at a station than stuck in the middle of nowhere where paramedics or whatever can’t access.

Is it obvious when you should pull the handle to ensure the train is stopped nicely at a station?

 

[underbank]

Surely in a medical emergency, it has to depend on the length of time before the next scheduled stop? If you're on Pendolino and the next stop is an hour away, surely you need to call for assistance to have the train stopped at the next station which may be 5/10 minutes away. It would be crazy for the train to go straight through several stations where help was available just because it wasn't scheduled to stop there. You therefore need some way to advise the driver/guard of the situation so that medical assistance can be obtained as quickly as possible.

 

[mallard]

Alstom recently put up some advice on when you should and when you shouldn't use the emergency handle:

http://3minutesstop.alstom.com/infographie/sound-alarm-not-question/

All I'm seeing is a "test" where it's asking me whether it's a good idea to use the handle or not... Where's the advice? Or do I have to go through a childish trivia exercise before I'm allowed to know?

As far as I'm concerned, the only time I'd use it is when the threat of arrest, fine and criminal record for doing so is the better of the available options.

 

[Adlington]

If you're on Pendolino and the next stop is an hour away, surely you need to call for assistance to have the train stopped at the next station which may be 5/10 minutes away.

Sure.
If the handle lets you speak with the driver, that's fine. But if the handle simply activates the emergency brake, you may (read: are very likely) to stop the train in the middle of nowhere, which is of no great help to the medical casualty

 

[AlexNL]

Either way:

- if you notice something happening which endangers everyone on board the train, pull the emergency brake. This could've prevented the Eschede crash.

- if you're not feeling well, don't pull the emergency brake but use the passcom (if provided), try to contact the guard, reach out to fellow passengers or contact the BTP.

Leave it up to the railway to stop the train in an appropriate place - pulling the emergency brake might cause the train to stop on a viaduct, in a tunnel, or any other place which is difficult to reach for the emergency services. Meanwhile valuable time is lost as the driver/guard have to find out why the train has come to a halt and they have to engage with the signaller, BTP and emergency services.

 

[mugam4]

This video sums it up nicely, I think:

Use the emergency handle only when the motion of the train presents an imminent danger to life and limb.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Either way:

- if you notice something happening which endangers everyone on board the train, pull the emergency brake. This could've prevented the Eschede crash.

- if you're not feeling well, don't pull the emergency brake but use the passcom (if provided), try to contact the guard, reach out to fellow passengers or contact the BTP.

Leave it up to the railway to stop the train in an appropriate place - pulling the emergency brake might cause the train to stop on a viaduct, in a tunnel, or any other place which is difficult to reach for the emergency services. Meanwhile valuable time is lost as the driver/guard have to find out why the train has come to a halt and they have to engage with the signaller, BTP and emergency services.

The passcom IS the emergency brake.

 

[AlexNL]

The passcom IS the emergency brake.

In that case I misunderstood it's meaning, I thought it stood for "passenger communication"

Here in the Netherlands, NS's latest fleets (Bombardier/Siemens SLT and Stadler FLIRT3) are equipped with intercom systems. Instead of directly stopping a train, they allow passengers to talk to the driver in case of an emergency. Apart from that there is still an emergency brake handle.

 

[yorkie]

....don't pull the emergency brake but use the passcom (if provided)....

I think you misunderstand. That is not an option. On newer stock, the passcom allows you to contact the driver, who can make the decision on whether (and when) to brake or not. On older stock, it activates the alarm automatically.

 

[robbeech]

Likely repeating others. The idea is that at this current moment there is still stock on the network where by pulling the alarm gives an immediate brake application. For this reason the advice is simply only use where stopping the train is the most suitable response. As stock is renewed this becomes less important as a driver can override this on most newer stock. Maybe we will see a change to the message as older stock is removed from service.

 

[43096]

Surely in a medical emergency, it has to depend on the length of time before the next scheduled stop? If you're on Pendolino and the next stop is an hour away, surely you need to call for assistance to have the train stopped at the next station which may be 5/10 minutes away. It would be crazy for the train to go straight through several stations where help was available just because it wasn't scheduled to stop there. You therefore need some way to advise the driver/guard of the situation so that medical assistance can be obtained as quickly as possible.

If it is that long to the next stop, go and find a crew member - guard, buffet bert or whoever - they can then contact the driver and control to take the right action. An uncontrolled stop in a random location is not going to help anyone in a medical emergency.

 

[yorkie]

All I'm seeing is a "test" where it's asking me whether it's a good idea to use the handle or not... Where's the advice? Or do I have to go through a childish trivia exercise before I'm allowed to know?

The target audience of that website is clearly children/teens. Probably as part of a resource made available to schools.

However if you wish to have a go at it, no-one is going to stop you. On the other hand, no-one is making you do it either.

 

[sefton]

If it is that long to the next stop, go and find a crew member - guard, buffet bert or whoever - they can then contact the driver and control to take the right action. An uncontrolled stop in a random location is not going to help anyone in a medical emergency.

So should I walk to the front of the train and knock on the door to the cab, as that is the only member of train staff onboard?

Yes some trains do have additional staff, but it should not be the customer's responsibility to need to work out they should do this on that train and that on this train, the railway industry should have a consistent system across everything. And if they don't, well that is their problem.

 

[43096]

So should I walk to the front of the train and knock on the door to the cab, as that is the only member of train staff onboard?

Yes some trains do have additional staff, but it should not be the customer's responsibility to need to work out they should do this on that train and that on this train, the railway industry should have a consistent system across everything. And if they don't, well that is their problem.

Name me a service running as DOO that is non-stop for an hour.

 

[arb]

Name me a service running as DOO that is non-stop for an hour.

Cambridge to King's Cross fast trains are over 50 minutes non-stop.

If that's not close enough to an hour for you, add in a planned diversion around the Hertford Loop due to engineering works

 

[randyrippley]

Surely in a medical emergency, it has to depend on the length of time before the next scheduled stop? If you're on Pendolino and the next stop is an hour away, surely you need to call for assistance to have the train stopped at the next station which may be 5/10 minutes away. It would be crazy for the train to go straight through several stations where help was available just because it wasn't scheduled to stop there. You therefore need some way to advise the driver/guard of the situation so that medical assistance can be obtained as quickly as possible.

Not necessarily
Imagine a southbound Pendolino at Shap, with a heart attack victim on board.
Whats the best option for the patient? Offload at Oxenholme? (Kendal's Westmorland Infirmary is just down the road). Offload at Lancaster ?(more chance of an ambulance due to bigger fleet, Royal Lancaster Infirmary half a mile away). Offload at Preston?
The decision seems simple until you realise that in MOST cases the ambulance would take the patient to the Coronory Care Unit at Preston anyway - there isn't one at Kendal, and Lancaster traffic is so bad that to take patients there is unviable. Obviously it depends of availability of ambulance, availability of beds, status of the patient
But the fact remains that on many occasions the correct medical decision would be for the train to run non-stop to Preston, skipping Oxenholme and Lancaster. Or maybe skip Oxenholme and stop at Lancaster. Obviously the driver can't make that decision: it has to be made in conjunction with ambulance service / railway authorities / online staff (i.e. are they confident the patient is stable).
Or to give a more extreme example, what would you do in the event of a medical emergency at Dent? Wait for an ambulance from Penrith? Go to Ribblehead and offload there? Patient then has a hell of a ride to Lancaster or Preston or Barrow. Keep the patient on board and run non-stop to Settle and offload there? Still a long run to a hospital. The correct decision depends on where is the first place an ambulance (or mountain rescue team) can get to..........
To sum up, getting medical assistance as quickly as possible by stopping at the next station may not be the correct decision
But pulling the cord is very certainly the wrong decision: you don't want to stop that train