Qualified Drivers Southeastern - All Depots

[DA1]

Well there was a campaign a little while ago for which people are still in a holding pool including myself. Received another update stating when they can they will look to progress to the next stage.
Also agreed. Very unlikely to get trainee roles come up for Ashford, not even shunter jobs ever come up there. I live under a 5min walk to my closest so that would be ideal.

 

[TheJRB]

It’s unlikely they’d take on trainees at Ashford. You’d be better off aiming for one of the metro depots which regularly recruit trainees, albeit location might be an issue.

Yeah, can't say I've ever seen any trainee posts advertised here so far which is a shame. Relocating to the SE metro area isn't something that's probably on the cards really - sooner move further afield if anything but relocation is a tricky one in general.

 

[TheJRB]

Well there was a campaign a little while ago for which people are still in a holding pool including myself. Received another update stating when they can they will look to progress to the next stage.
Also agreed. Very unlikely to get trainee roles come up for Ashford. I live under a 5min walk to mine so that would be ideal.

What is it about Ashford that makes it so unlikely though? I know HS never takes on trainees but I'd have thought the mainline depot would need an intake at some point?

 

[ComUtoR]

What is it about Ashford that makes it so unlikely though? I know HS never takes on trainees but I'd have thought the mainline depot would need an intake at some point?

Turnover. The further you go to retirement the coast. The lower the turnover is at each depot. In some cases, literally 'dead man's shoes'

 

[TheJRB]

Turnover. The further you go to retirement the coast. The lower the turnover is at each depot. In some cases, literally 'dead man's shoes'

I have noticed that there's not many young faces in the cabs here so that explains it I guess. Pity I never applied for the new TL depot when it came up a couple of years back - see them passing on HS all the time.

 

[SlimJim1694]

Not sure I agree on the sweeping statement about instructors, good and bad at every toc.
I agree about the union, absolutely useless at SE.

I should have made it clear I was talking specifically about metro DIs. Of course there are a few good ones but you've just got to look at the rate of newly qualified drivers having incidents on SE to see that the training and competency management isn't up to much. As for DI safety records, I can think of plenty of examples of incidents some of them have had and still been given DI jobs because the decent drivers won't do it.

What is it about Ashford that makes it so unlikely though? I know HS never takes on trainees but I'd have thought the mainline depot would need an intake at some point?

Ashford is usually filled with metro drivers transferring or internal trainees which is why they don't need to go to the street like metro depots do.

 

[SlimJim1694]

In case anyone is interested here's an example of the kind of work a metro driver can expect at Charing Cross.

Pass underground to Cannon St.
Cannon St - Hayes - Cannon St - Orpington and attach.

PNB

Orpington sidings - Orpington - Charing X.

Charing X- Barnehurst, ECS into Slade Green depot.
Walk out.
Slade Green - Cannon St - Dartford - Charing Cross.

This is an actual job and not one of the worst ones. Just to give an idea. You'll be looking at 100+ DOO stops most days.

 

[43066]

Charing X- Barnehurst, ECS into Slade Green depot.
Walk out.
Slade Green - Cannon St - Dartford - Charing Cross.

And try not to get stabbed by any of the scummers who hang around Sludge Green station in the process .

 

[Economist]

And try not to get stabbed by any of the scummers who hang around Sludge Green station in the process .

You really don't like that place do you? I can't blame you though, the surrounding area is pretty dire!

GWR seems fairly popular at the moment, there's quite a few people who've been trading SE London for Devon, or so I hear. One of two TOCs are going to have a serious driver shortage when things get back to normal, especially if they have to run extra trains throughout the day for social distancing.

 

[387star]

Yeah, can't say I've ever seen any trainee posts advertised here so far which is a shame. Relocating to the SE metro area isn't something that's probably on the cards really - sooner move further afield if anything but relocation is a tricky one in general.

Thameslink took a load on for Ashford

 

[TheJRB]

Thameslink took a load on for Ashford

Yeah, kicking myself on that one in hindsight.

 

[Station 2]

I'm sure as a trainee its the same as any other TOC... even if you do get the job as a trainee the calibre of the instructors is shocking. A lot of them have absolutely shameful safety records.....

The vast bulk of the good instructors chucked it in after the West Wickham incident when the instructor involved in that was hauled over the coals (thankfully and rightfully he was eventually exonerated, but not before the damage had been done) so the company began to recruit anyone they could to fill the void and to meet the ever-consistent churning out of trainees to replace the sacked and the leavers. There are plenty of guys with any combination of SPADS, TPWS, overruns, stop shorts, wrong side releases, opening the doors on Hungerford Bridge, rollbacks etc, training newbies how to drive trains. Most of the current DIs on Southeastern wouldnt even get jobs as carriage cleaners on any other TOC.... and by that I mean no disrespect to carriage cleaners.

On top of all that the pay and conditions are crap by national standards and the strength of the union on SE is zero. DCC are jolly boys out on the beer sending out a one page A4 "bulletin" once every six months (telling us how they have accepted whatever management have fobbed them off with this time) to justify their full time release.

I can't imagine there has been much uptake on this advert. Anyone applying will get it, that's for sure. It's not as if SE are in any position to start any kind of "sift".

WOW! That bad ?

 

[43066]

WOW! That bad ?

Everything @SlimJim1694 has said is 100% right.

 

[donpoku]

Everything @SlimJim1694 has said is 100% right.

Lol, haters always gonna hate, you wouldn't be where you are if it weren't for...

 

[43066]

Lol, haters always gonna hate, you wouldn't be where you are if it weren't for...

Is that you David?

(David Statham = SE’s MD)

 

[43066]

GWR seems fairly popular at the moment, there's quite a few people who've been trading SE London for Devon, or so I hear. One of two TOCs are going to have a serious driver shortage when things get back to normal, especially if they have to run extra trains throughout the day for social distancing.

I know of at least one Vic driver who moved to GWR Plymouth. He hailed from down that way originally IIRC.

 

[SlimJim1694]

Delete please!

 

[Metal_gee_man]

The simple fact is, if you live 40 mins away from a Metro land depot, £50k-ish doesn't get you a mortgage on a 1 bed flat in London, so you rent, you hang around for two years until you can transfer internally, and then buy a house in deepest Kent for £250 - £300k with 3 beds etc or you bugger off to another TOC offering more money and prospects in London and walk away with a bumper pay packet and a better chance of a nice house.
Then there are those who make huge moves, get a similar pay deal up north or west but with property costing much less end up with a 5 bed detached house.

Metro depots won't suit 90% of the people who work them, there might be that odd 10% that stay, aren't ambitious or just happy but it makes you understand why you'd get your key and run as quick as you can

 

[387star]

Southeastern has had its fair share of problems.

West Wickham and Lewisham spring to mind. Unlucky perhaps .

Surely a pay deal is imminent ?

New DOO trains are easier to dispatch with on-board cameras as opposed to grainy sunlight affected external monitors. I hear 707s are coming which might make metro less arduous.

I can imagine somewhere like Ramsgate being popular location wise but Dover Ashford and Gillingham don't have a lot if good said about them. The nice areas if Kent such as Tunbridge Wells Canterbury and Sevenoaks are I guess very expensive

 

[Gekko5154]

SE isn't all that bad.....in fact Vic is pretty decent! The diagrams are getting worse though. If there were any gaps inbetween jobs they've now thrown in as many shunts and AP/DP as they could. What Metal_gee_man wrote is spot on though. I would have moved Ashford but SE don't offer residential travel for my partner so i switched for a higher paying Lon toc. Sometimes the grass isn't always greener though.

 

[SlimJim1694]

SE isn't all that bad.....in fact Vic is pretty decent! The diagrams are getting worse though. If there were any gaps inbetween jobs they've now thrown in as many shunts and AP/DP as they could. What Metal_gee_man wrote is spot on though. I would have moved Ashford but SE don't offer residential travel for my partner so i switched for a higher paying Lon toc. Sometimes the grass isn't always greener though.

Is Vic still decent? Since it lost its non-residential status and taxi agreement and also got all the extra metro stuff loads have left. I'll agree it was a decent depot but I dont think thats the case any more.

With regards to the grass being greener at higher paying London tocs I hear what you are saying. Did you go to another metro depot for more money? I was tempted by Thameslink and Southern until I saw their jobs. One thing experience has taught me is that metro drivers often transfer to mainline depots but you very seldom, if ever, see any mainline drivers choosing to move to metro.

The biggest problem on SE is actually the drivers ourselves. Moan, moan, moan, work rest days, moan, moan, work another rest day, moan etc. Its demoralising.

 

[Dean Pearson]

New here and have a couple friends who works as a train drivers and one of them was telling me about this. So what dose everyone think the chances are that SE will open up positions for trainee drivers?

 

[Gekko5154]

Well yes since they lost their taxi agreement and got all the added metro stuff a lot of drivers did leave but still work content wasn't that bad.

Unfortunately for me i joined ARL (better pay) and saw their jobs after lol. Not a true 4 day week, limited routes (like doing Vic-Orpys most of the time and the occasional Dartford).

The biggest problem on SE is actually the drivers ourselves. Moan, moan, moan, work rest days, moan, moan, work another rest day, moan etc. Its demoralising.

100% correct

 

[SlimJim1694]

Unfortunately for me i joined ARL (better pay) and saw their jobs after lol. Not a true 4 day week, limited routes (like doing Vic-Orpys most of the time and the occasional Dartford).

Yes, I wouldn't fancy ARL. I'll admit I've been pretty negative about SE on here, and i have to admit its not all bad, especially route-wise when compared to what is presumably just all stations West Croydon or Clapham all day, every day. At least we have three routes to Dartford and the rural delights of Hayes and Sevenoaks! Didnt know they weren't on a 4 day week either. I thought everyone was now!

I'm just demoralised, personally, and I want a change. I've seen so many people come and go that I've lost count. I'm hearing stories of people who left and went to places with half hour turnarounds as standard, have a guard, a higher salary and see nothing but greens all day. These people never come back. There are people posting on this forum that have only ever done that kind of work. Good for them. I think any driver who has never done what we do (100+ stops a day, DOO, restrictive signals, short turnaround times, wildly differing train lengths in one shift etc) can't understand what it's like. We get used to the work and take the risks in our stride, but when I see drivers flying about at high speeds and not stopping for miles I'll admit I'm just a little bit jealous! I know they'll tell me that its not easy street either but I can guarantee not one of them would swap it for intensive DOO metro work (you won't see Virgin, LNER and EMT drivers banging on the door at Dartford begging to be let in) and that tells you everything you need to know.

I am trying to put some positives across and I think the SE coastal depots could suit a qualified driver who wanted to relocate, (you NEVER see coastal blokes transferring to metro depots but there are long waiting lists to go the other way) and SE metro is an ideal place for any budding trainee to get a start. Trainee jobs will no doubt come up again soon and I would recommend it to anyone looking at getting into the industry. And as Gekko says above, its worth remembering that the grass isn't always greener!

 

[donpoku]

Yes, I wouldn't fancy ARL. I'll admit I've been pretty negative about SE on here, and i have to admit its not all bad, especially route-wise when compared to what is presumably just all stations West Croydon or Clapham all day, every day. At least we have three routes to Dartford and the rural delights of Hayes and Sevenoaks! Didnt know they weren't on a 4 day week either. I thought everyone was now!

I'm just demoralised, personally, and I want a change. I've seen so many people come and go that I've lost count. I'm hearing stories of people who left and went to places with half hour turnarounds as standard, have a guard, a higher salary and see nothing but greens all day. These people never come back. There are people posting on this forum that have only ever done that kind of work. Good for them. I think any driver who has never done what we do (100+ stops a day, DOO, restrictive signals, short turnaround times, wildly differing train lengths in one shift etc) can't understand what it's like. We get used to the work and take the risks in our stride, but when I see drivers flying about at high speeds and not stopping for miles I'll admit I'm just a little bit jealous! I know they'll tell me that its not easy street either but I can guarantee not one of them would swap it for intensive DOO metro work (you won't see Virgin, LNER and EMT drivers banging on the door at Dartford begging to be let in) and that tells you everything you need to know.

I am trying to put some positives across and I think the SE coastal depots could suit a qualified driver who wanted to relocate, (you NEVER see coastal blokes transferring to metro depots but there are long waiting lists to go the other way) and SE metro is an ideal place for any budding trainee to get a start. Trainee jobs will no doubt come up again soon and I would recommend it to anyone looking at getting into the industry. And as Gekko says above, its worth remembering that the grass isn't always greener!

100% correct. You get the good with the bad in all aspects of life, the trick is counting your blessing everyday, it helps outweighs the positives to the negatives.

 

[Class2ldn]

Do you still have to use 2 lieu days for xmas and boxing day at SE?

 

[43066]

Unfortunately for me i joined ARL (better pay) and saw their jobs after lol. Not a true 4 day week, limited routes (like doing Vic-Orpys most of the time and the occasional Dartford).

I’ve heard good things about ARL to be fair. Not in terms of the work/routes, which is probably more intense than SE metro, but in terms of the management/culture etc.

You’re doing intense metro work but at least you’re being paid properly for it!

Lol, haters always gonna hate, you wouldn't be where you are if it weren't for...

Comments like this.

100% correct. You get the good with the bad in all aspects of life, the trick is counting your blessing everyday, it helps outweighs the positives to the negatives.

And like this don’t count for much unless you’ve actually done the work and are speaking from experience.

I get the impression from other threads that you’re applying for trainee driver vacancies - with all due respect mate you should wait until you’ve actually experienced the work before commenting.

There has been quite a bit of negativity on this thread, but for good reason. I echo the comments above that SE is a good option to get a key, and the coastal depots might be okay for those wedded to that part of the world. But we should remember this thread is aimed at qualified drivers - SE metro would be a very, very strange choice for them.

Do you still have to use 2 lieu days for xmas and boxing day at SE?

Annual leave required to be used if Xmas day and Boxing Day fall on days drivers are rostered to work.

 

[43066]

Well yes since they lost their taxi agreement and got all the added metro stuff a lot of drivers did leave but still work content wasn't that bad.

Re. vic agreed on the work content. Newly qualified drivers go to Ashford straight away? At least there’s a mix of mainline guarded and metro work. Certainly a better mixture than any of the other metro depots.

 

[Class2ldn]

Yeah see at TL we are paid the days or given an AL day for each.

 

[Applepie356]

So I’ve heard Metro work comes with high risk of incidents. Can you still transfer with incidents on your record or do you have to wait for them to clear, if they do?