Qualifieds or Trainees selection decisions

[387star]

I was wondering how it is decided how many new drivers are Qualifieds or Trainees and if they are internal or external?

Do companies have to advertise for these roles externally even if no intention to recruit trainees ?

I hear more trainees have been recruited recently than Qualifieds at some locations despite enough Qualified demand. Gillingham depot at GTR was mentioned .

 

[Need2]

Do companies have to advertise for these roles externally even if no intention to recruit trainees ?

Where do people get this notion that companies have to advertise in certain ways or means?

I hear more trainees have been recruited recently than Qualifieds at some locations despite enough Qualified demand. Gillingham depot at GTR was mentioned .

And I was told by our Op's manager that ALL Kent depots were full.

 

[tiptoptaff]

It will always be cheaper and easier for a TOC or FOC to recruit and train a qualified driver. So naturally, that will be their preference. But they're also realistic about how many they can recruit at once.

For some TOCs, they never needed many drivers at once, and they had the big headline salaries, so a big annual recruitment drive for qualified drivers, who'd be lining up to take a job, did the trick. For the London commuter TOCS with high turnovers, they knew they struggle to keep drivers, let alone recruit them. So they advertise a lot more for trainees.

Behind the scenes, the company has long term projections for the driver establishment. They try, roughly, to calculate their annual "wastage" which can vary. They know they usually lose a few drivers to other TOCs, maybe depot transfers etc, plus they can look at the ages of their drivers and predict how many may retire, any increase in services or changes to conditions. From there, they decide how many drivers they need to train in a given year, and then try to see how many they think they can get already qualified. The rest they bring in as trainees.

 

[387star]

It will always be cheaper and easier for a TOC or FOC to recruit and train a qualified driver. So naturally, that will be their preference. But they're also realistic about how many they can recruit at once.

For some TOCs, they never needed many drivers at once, and they had the big headline salaries, so a big annual recruitment drive for qualified drivers, who'd be lining up to take a job, did the trick. For the London commuter TOCS with high turnovers, they knew they struggle to keep drivers, let alone recruit them. So they advertise a lot more for trainees.

Behind the scenes, the company has long term projections for the driver establishment. They try, roughly, to calculate their annual "wastage" which can vary. They know they usually lose a few drivers to other TOCs, maybe depot transfers etc, plus they can look at the ages of their drivers and predict how many may retire, any increase in services or changes to conditions. From there, they decide how many drivers they need to train in a given year, and then try to see how many they think they can get already qualified. The rest they bring in as trainees.

Interesting
There are some dead mans shoes depots that I'm sure could be filled by Qualifieds alone yet they took trainees . I guess many Qualifieds who apply may be unsuitable due to location or record

 

[P444]

Hit the nail on the head. Some companies know they will always be ‘feeder clubs’ and not be able to retain drivers as they can’t match the higher wages. They have good training teams in place which has recently been strengthened by the Train Driver apprenticeships helping fund training resources. Some of the big fish are now looking at recruiting trainees as they see benefit. I still believe some companies do not have any trainee driver programme in place for people ‘off the street’.

 

[387star]

Hit the nail on the head. Some companies know they will always be ‘feeder clubs’ and not be able to retain drivers as they can’t match the higher wages. They have good training teams in place which has recently been strengthened by the Train Driver apprenticeships helping fund training resources. Some of the big fish are now looking at recruiting trainees as they see benefit. I still believe some companies do not have any trainee driver programme in place for people ‘off the street’.

True I forget Crosscountry and the like don't as a rule take on trainees although they did recently . Then there are depots where vacancies are snapped up by Qualifieds without needing to take traonesa on. I Would have thought internal promotion is seen as a way of boosting morale and thus trainees are taken on internally despite being more expensive to train with a higher training salary. At DOO TOCS I imagine the internal pool to be much less hence Thameslink and the lile often advertising externally.

In some cases Qualifieds don't stand a chance as relocation is banned which seems surprising whilst some companies rarely or never advertise for Qualifieds. In this case approaching HR may work.

Was it mentioned the DFT are dictating that a certain TOC only take trainees? Wasn't sure they could do this.

 

[Economist]

There's a couple of TOCs in the south which would attract quite a few qualifieds despite being DOO, however they only recruit trainees. There is a TOC next door (partially DOO) which would lose a lot of qualifieds if the first two took them and all three franchises are owned by the same parent company.

I have heard about the DfT getting involved, personally I don't think they should be, after all what's wrong with the free market?

 

[387star]

There's a couple of TOCs in the south which would attract quite a few qualifieds despite being DOO, however they only recruit trainees. There is a TOC next door (partially DOO) which would lose a lot of qualifieds if the first two took them and all three franchises are owned by the same parent company.

I have heard about the DfT getting involved, personally I don't think they should be, after all what's wrong with the free market?

Which are these TOCS?I know GTR have incredible conditions and fantastic trains to drive but a number of depots have awful work. There are some with fairly decent work... I guess ATO through The Core might make things less intense. Sutton to Luton was a killer though...

 

[DA1]

Which are these TOCS?

At a guess Thameslink and Southern with Southeastern being the TOC next door?

 

[387star]

At a guess Thameslink and Southern with Southeastern being the TOC next door?

I think some depots are so popular that they can only take internal Qualifieds rather than needing to take external ones

Some depots may never need to advertise for external trainees as they have enough external Qualifieds/internal trainees to fill vacancies.

It seems much of this is speculation though as the railways work in mysterious ways. It's always great to give opportunities to external trainees in parts of the country where there could easily be a closed shop. I imagine it's all budgeted too where there are so many trainees a company can take on either internal or external and it makes sense to spread these at different depot to facilitate training and it's worth noting Qualifieds have a higher training salary (although it's shorter) and worth noting some companies prefer fresh off the street drivers to train

 

[donpoku]

Which are these TOCS?I know GTR have incredible conditions and fantastic trains to drive but a number of depots have awful work. There are some with fairly decent work... I guess ATO through The Core might make things less intense. Sutton to Luton was a killer though...

Hi did you move from Thameslink to Southern and for what reason? Thx.

 

[Economist]

At a guess Thameslink and Southern with Southeastern being the TOC next door?

Yep, from what I can tell, Southern have the best pay/lifestyle ratio. SE lag behind considerably on pay and I don't see them catching up anytime soon.

 

[Stigy]

For driving jobs, I guess they will advertise for what they need. If they don’t need trainees or don’t plan on running any courses, why advertise for them?

For other jobs (probably excluding Guards for the same reason as drivers?), companies usually advertise internally and externally but don’t have to.