Question about 2-2-2 Nr. 28

pcrail

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Has anybody an idea, what locomotive this could be?
Picture taken between 1880 and 1890. Driver diameter 6 ft.
Is this a rebuilt class 130 locomotive of the Midland Railways?

1625534404642.png
 
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Gloster

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A very, very tentative suggestion: Kirtley double-framed of the 800 class, possibly a 6’ 8”.
 
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topydre

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First thoughts; wikipedia says that the 130 class had a number 28. The link below shows number 27.
Another wiki page says that many of them were rebuilt, adding cabs and a new firebox, which would explain the differences in appearance


The MR penchant for rebuilding locomotives and also recycling old numbers can be frustrating for enthusiasts! Another Kirtley class which had been rebuilt in various forms merits the following description by C. Hamilton Lewis (The Midland Railway, 1953): "How much an engine qualifies for definition as a "rebuild" when it has had new frames, new cylinders, new wheels and several new boilers at one time and another (and incidentally six different numbers) is something the present author hesitates to explain, but somehow it was all in the Midland tradition of locomotive longevity"

Here's the details. This would appear to be the "1" subclass
1625584578203.png

Happy researching!

Back again... also from The Midland Railway by C Hamilton Lewis:
1625585435282.png
1625585450333.png
 
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pcrail

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The MR penchant for rebuilding locomotives and also recycling old numbers can be frustrating for enthusiasts! Another Kirtley class which had been rebuilt in various forms merits the following description by C. Hamilton Lewis (The Midland Railway, 1953): "How much an engine qualifies for definition as a "rebuild" when it has had new frames, new cylinders, new wheels and several new boilers at one time and another (and incidentally six different numbers) is something the present author hesitates to explain, but somehow it was all in the Midland tradition of locomotive longevity"
This is actually the 400-year-old-hammer-issue: the museum has a 400-year-old hammer on display, but 10 times new handle and 10 times new head.

In the text above, I like the section, where it says ... sandwich frames with tiebars between the horns. Not sure, if the drivers of 6 ft 6 in diameter do fit to the picture. I was more thinking of 6 ft by estimating it with the height of the side buffers, which are normally 1050 mm above TOR.

While browsing the net, I found locomotives from Craven, who worked for the London, Brighton and South Coast Railway, which show bracing of the frame in a similar as the Nr. 28. Craven was Kirtley's successor at Brighton.

1625730741268.pngCraven Nr. 153 built 1862.

The rod between the headstock and the first horn was not there on an earlier version built in 1852, but the bracing in front of the driver was already there.
1625730924526.png
 

etr221

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When asked elsewhere, this elicited a response (not mine) "Photo is taken in Ireland at Limerick and shows Waterford , Limerick & Western Railway 2-2-2 no. 28 built by Kitson 1213/1864."
 

pcrail

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When asked elsewhere, this elicited a response (not mine) "Photo is taken in Ireland at Limerick and shows Waterford , Limerick & Western Railway 2-2-2 no. 28 built by Kitson 1213/1864."
Correct, the else where location was facebook. It says...
Daniel Chambers
I believe it's Waterford & Limerick Railway No. 28. A one-off loco for the W&LR, built by Kitsons & Co in 1864, became Great Southern & Western railway No. 280, and was withdrawn in 1902.

Found a pic of W&LR 11 in front of the same buidling:
 

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Gloster

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The same photo, or an identical one, appears in The Waterford & Limerick Railway by C.E.J.Fryer (Oakwood Press, 2000) with the credit L&GRP (Locomotive & General Railway Photographs). The location is given as outside the Locomotive Superintendent’s office at Limerick and the date as c. 1895.
 

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