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Question about bus heating

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BuhSnarf

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22 May 2010
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Hi all,

As the temperature is dropping the issue of heating is again on my mind!

I take four buses on my commute each day. Both AM buses are always freezing and the fans and under seat heaters are off (freezing cold to touch) and thus bus is freezing and windows steamed up. On my return home buses in the afternoon. Heating working perfectly.

Is there a technical reason why they don't work in the morning? I.e. engine has to be running for so long or is it just driver not turned it on? This is the same with different drivers and different model of bus. But all with Arriva Midlands.

Just curious, really.

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Schnellzug

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i was mildly surprised to find that on most standard systems, the driver seems not to have any control over it and they're set at the depot. I suppose they've just come into service and they just need to have time for the coolant to circulate.
 

bus man

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21 Oct 2010
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Most systems are worked off the excess heat from the engine so therefore in the morning as the engine hasnt warmed up there isnt any heat to use .

In order to keep mainance costs down it is standard practice not to have the systems under control of the driver as it tends to be constantly switched on and off thus causing problems with switches etc
 

Pyromaniac

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Colchester
Usually controlled in the engine bay (certainly is with Arriva and First down my way) and the drivers cannot change it. Unless they want to gain oily hands opening the bonnet and switching the heating on/off.

But as always it takes time for things to heat up, cars do not pump out heat straight away either :) .
 

mbonwick

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Older buses (I'm thinking B10Ms and Olympians here) have the thermostats in the saloon if you know where to look.

Newer stuff (Tridents, E400s) etc have the thermostat in the engine bay - the only control the driver has is on/off for the blowing fans.
 

BuhSnarf

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Thanks for all the replies!

Can certainly understand takes time to warm up! However the second bus I catch in the morning is on it's second trip so been out just over an hour so should have warmed up. My old car took no more than 15 minutes.

Can understand that maybe driver has no control but then this should make it even more constant! Whereas you can have buses kicking out no heat and some blasting it out to the point of coat removal.

Just surprised in this day and age we cant get heating hot in winter and cool in summer!

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anthony263

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South Wales
Some of the older buses can have the heating switch in the cab, however most newer buses have the switch in the engine bay and is set by depot staff.

I know of 1 member of staff who has refused to take 1 bus out because the heating wouldnt work.

The buses do tend to warm up during the day something which is terrible during the summer months as the drivers can't switch the heaters off.

I do have to feel sorry for those drivers who have to start their shifts at 4am on a cold winters day.
 

BestWestern

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Thanks for all the replies!

Can certainly understand takes time to warm up! However the second bus I catch in the morning is on it's second trip so been out just over an hour so should have warmed up. My old car took no more than 15 minutes.

Can understand that maybe driver has no control but then this should make it even more constant! Whereas you can have buses kicking out no heat and some blasting it out to the point of coat removal.

Just surprised in this day and age we cant get heating hot in winter and cool in summer!

It takes a fair long while for a bus saloon to warm up properly as the heat is provided by the engine coolant being pumped around the interior. Until the engine is running at full temperature there isn't a great deal of heat in the coolant, particularly once it's been halfway around the bus. Hence they are often not at all warm when they've only just entered service. Different buses will run at differing temperatures, and the heating pipes and radiators will be in varying condition, which explains why some buses are better than others. What is really quite shocking is that air-con is still not a regular feature on UK buses for those hot summer months :|
 

wintonian

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I want to know why the heating is switched off in the winter but switched on in the summer! :-x

As has been said the driver can't change it, but surely the mechanics have some idea of whether it is summer winter.

Mind you Stagecoach used to be the worst offender by far down here but have improved somewhat over the last 2/ 3 years.
 
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mbonwick

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In winter the heating system can pull vital heat away from the engine, so is turned down so the engine doesn't have to burn as much fuel to maintain temperature.

In summer the opposite is true; the heating system pulls unwanted heat away from the engine which prevents overheating.
 

BuhSnarf

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In winter the heating system can pull vital heat away from the engine, so is turned down so the engine doesn't have to burn as much fuel to maintain temperature.

In summer the opposite is true; the heating system pulls unwanted heat away from the engine which prevents overheating.

Why does this not work like cars? I'd return my car if it started blowing out hot air in the summer!

Surely in this day and age they can dissipate the hot air in other ways?

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Nym

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Why does this not work like cars? I'd return my car if it started blowing out hot air in the summer!

Surely in this day and age they can dissipate the hot air in other ways?

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Because your car radiator is about the same size as one on a bus, but your heater is about 1 20th of the size of the heating matrix of a bus. And most buses, due to the pressure the heating system runs at, and for cheapness, don't run with thermostats...
 

michael769

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I want to know why the heating is switched off in the winter but switched on in the summer! :-x

Beware observer bias! You don't notice the vast majority of times that it is working fine - only the occasions something is wrong.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Perhaps we need to wire up sensors to buses and use them to set the company's offices to the same temperature.

I'll bet they would stop cutting corners and specify a properly designed controllable heating system then!
 

BuhSnarf

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Because your car radiator is about the same size as one on a bus, but your heater is about 1 20th of the size of the heating matrix of a bus. And most buses, due to the pressure the heating system runs at, and for cheapness, don't run with thermostats...

So it's purely a cost/design issue not tech issue then.

As for observer bias, trust me, when you make a minimum of 20 bus rides a week (just work, more if out on days off) you start getting a good sample size! And it rarely works perfectly!

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driver9000

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The passengers body heat also helps warm the saloon. When I drove buses they were always much warmer after carrying a full load. Many older double deckers didn't even have upper deck heating on the basis that heat rose and passenger body heat would warm it anyway. The only control over heating I had was a stop cock to prevent coolant entering the pipework or on some Leylands I could control the blowers for the saloon. Some had a thermostat but it wasn't guaranteed to work.
 

newbie babs

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I catch 12 buses a week and there are not many passengers on at 7.10am but I must say the heating is always good on First in Sheffield.

Not sure about Stagecoach the passengers always look cold and well wrapped up and I think there buses are newer than First (they are on my route)
 
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