Question about fares from Chelmsford to London Terminals

[Olly8]

Hi,
I've got a question about what is permitted by fares and the routeing guide when travelling from Chelmsford to London Terminals.
Mostly I can see that the journeys planned results are to London Liverpool Street - but I am wondering if I can get to St Pancras as an alternative - by going via a change between Stratford-Stratford Intl?

So - by using an Any Permitted SDS Ticket with fare origin of Chelmsford to fare destination of London Terminals:
Chlelmsford > Stratford on GA
Stratford > Stratford Intl on DLR
Stratford Intl > St Pancras on SE

Is there any reason this would be a problem?

Thanks!

 

[yorkie]

If it's routed via high speed it's valid

If not, then the view of the rail industry is that it's invalidated by a "negative easement"

 

[MikeWh]

Further to Yorkie's response, it would need a maltese cross to be valid on the DLR, which the Plus High Speed variants do have.

 

[westv]

What is the point of the Stratford DLR part? They are basically the same station.

 

[superjohn]

What is the point of the Stratford DLR part? They are basically the same station.

Not really. It is walkable but quite a way, especially if Westfield is closed at the time. Think walking from Birmingham New Street to Moor Street.

 

[alistairlees]

If it's routed via high speed it's valid

If not, then the view of the rail industry is that it's invalidated by a "negative easement"

Which negative easement? I had a look but couldn't see one.

 

[Kilopylae]

Which negative easement? I had a look but couldn't see one.

Easement 600069.

It says: "Customers travelling from Stratford Domestic station to or via London St Pancras may not travel via Stratford International. This easement applies in both directions."

 

[alistairlees]

Easement 600069.

It says: "Customers travelling from Stratford Domestic station to or via London St Pancras may not travel via Stratford International. This easement applies in both directions."

The OP is travelling from Chelmsford though, not from Stratford (London). The easement data does not contain via Stratford (London) (SRA); just from (or to) Stratford (London) (SRA).

 

[mrmartin]

Probably be quicker/no slower going on the met/circle/h+c from Liverpool street to king's cross. Only a couple of quid on oyster.

By the time you get between platforms at Stratford, wait for for (or walk) and wait for the next HS1 train (they are only 4tph) you would be at King's Cross imo.

 

[JB_B]

The OP is travelling from Chelmsford though, not from Stratford (London). The easement data does not contain via Stratford (London) (SRA); just from (or to) Stratford (London) (SRA).

I wonder if this could be a case where the human readable text of the easement fails to match the underlying data.

As far as I can see one of the electronic easements* that's behind easement text 600069 would be engaged for this journey as it just needs

contains: Stratford International
via: Stratford (London)
destination: St Pancras

(* That's 600070 Negative Circuitous Route - applicable for the OP's route - any permitted- amongst others. )

 

[yorkie]

I wonder if this could be a case where the human readable text of the easement fails to match the underlying data.

As far as I can see one of the electronic easements* that's behind easement text 600069 would be engaged for this journey as it just needs

contains: Stratford International
via: Stratford (London)
destination: St Pancras

(* That's 600070 Negative Circuitous Route - applicable for the OP's route - any permitted- amongst others. )

Exactly.

 

[Kilopylae]

Oh, fair enough. I've only experience with the human readable text. Honestly, I think that the text and the data not aligning is unacceptable. The N.R.G. might not be super accessible but it's still wrong to use misleading wording that suggests a permitted route is invalid.

 

[yorkie]

Oh, fair enough. I've only experience with the human readable text. Honestly, I think that the text and the data not aligning is unacceptable. The N.R.G. might not be super accessible but it's still wrong to use misleading wording that suggests a permitted route is invalid.

Problem is that it's not so simple as to say this is clearly a permitted route; it relies on transfer between stations using a 'fixed link' which isn't available as a walking 'transfer', only as DLR 'metro' which the ticket doesn't include.

In other cases, where the ticket would otherwise clearly be valid, I would recommend using the ticket regardless, and claiming validity under contract and consumer laws. But I wouldn't feel confident here.

 

[Olly8]

Thanks for the feedback - Seems to be a fairly complicated specific issue - depending on interpretation.
Do you think there would be any issues with the gates at STP - or as a London Terminal I would be let through regardless?

 

[yorkie]

Thanks for the feedback - Seems to be a fairly complicated specific issue - depending on interpretation.
Do you think there would be any issues with the gates at STP - or as a London Terminal I would be let through regardless?

St Pancras gateline probably won't accept it and you may be asked to pay the excess.

 

[paul1609]

You won't get through the barriers at Stratford International to get on HS1 you'll be directed to the ticket office.

 

[JBuchananGB]

The received wisdom in the forum seems to be that if a TOC web site will sell you a ticket with a valid itinerary, then you can use that ticket on that itinerary. The GA web site will sell you an Anytime Day Single for the itinerary proposed by the OP for £21.40, and various return tickets. So that's OK. But using the more conventional route via Liverpool Street and the Underground, the single is £17.60, and the return tickets are also cheaper.

 

[JB_B]

The received wisdom in the forum seems to be that if a TOC web site will sell you a ticket with a valid itinerary, then you can use that ticket on that itinerary. The GA web site will sell you an Anytime Day Single for the itinerary proposed by the OP for £21.40, and various return tickets. So that's OK. But using the more conventional route via Liverpool Street and the Underground, the single is £17.60, and the return tickets are also cheaper.

The £21.40 single is route: +High Speed issued to St Pancras so there is no question about it's validity. ( The negative easement mentioned up thread doesn't apply to that routeing. ) However, I think the OP is hoping to cover the journey with a route:Any Permitted ( no +) ticket issued to London Terminals - I don't think I'd be trying that.

 

[paul1609]

The received wisdom in the forum seems to be that if a TOC web site will sell you a ticket with a valid itinerary, then you can use that ticket on that itinerary. The GA web site will sell you an Anytime Day Single for the itinerary proposed by the OP for £21.40, and various return tickets. So that's OK. But using the more conventional route via Liverpool Street and the Underground, the single is £17.60, and the return tickets are also cheaper.

That's correct the £21.40 ticket is routed + hs1