Questions about driving trains.

[TDK]

Wasn't quite sure about the first responses I got to my previous question but thank you for your thoughts. Although some things may seem very obvious to you, its not always to people looking in from the outside.

Could I ask a couple more ?
What is the best route that you drive and why ?


Is there any of the romanticism of the railways left or has that gone ? did that only exist for people looking in from the outside ?

Chester - Holyhead coz I like to be beside the sea side

 

[GA_z]

Hi I have a few questions if anyone can help that be great

1. The brake continuity wire wire 13 what is on thus circuit as I understand it's the brake governors, LMAG, PASSCOM, egress, putting on emergency brake in any cab what else is on the circuit ie governors switches that could brake it

2. Does isolating a specific coach at the coupling block via the MRPI cause a break in wire 13 if not why not and what types of isolation will brake wire 13

3 What does the battery on the train control what circuits and if the control + trips will this brake wire 13 if so why if not what will happen

4 what's the difference between battery + and control +

5 why does the VCB light come on apart from a neutral section

6 what will be the cause of loosing interlock

7 what would be the logic of finding faults related to line light out VCB on,
VCB off line light off, line light on VCB on will these faults result in an emergency brake application or just a loss of traction power and what will happen

8 if you lose power from the overheads will traction power still be available

9 as far as I'm aware there's 3 main voltages passing through a train 1050 240 110 what controls each voltage and to what circuits equipment do they run


Many thanks I'm a trainee driver and finding the above hard to grasp on traction training for class 315's any reading notes will be a huge help

 

[slick]

Hi I have a few questions if anyone can help that be great

1. The brake continuity wire wire 13 what is on thus circuit as I understand it's the brake governors, LMAG, PASSCOM, egress, putting on emergency brake in any cab what else is on the circuit ie governors switches that could brake it

2. Does isolating a specific coach at the coupling block via the MRPI cause a break in wire 13 if not why not and what types of isolation will brake wire 13

3 What does the battery on the train control what circuits and if the control + trips will this brake wire 13 if so why if not what will happen

4 what's the difference between battery + and control +

5 why does the VCB light come on apart from a neutral section

6 what will be the cause of loosing interlock

7 what would be the logic of finding faults related to line light out VCB on,
VCB off line light off, line light on VCB on will these faults result in an emergency brake application or just a loss of traction power and what will happen

8 if you lose power from the overheads will traction power still be available

9 as far as I'm aware there's 3 main voltages passing through a train 1050 240 110 what controls each voltage and to what circuits equipment do they run


Many thanks I'm a trainee driver and finding the above hard to grasp on traction training for class 315's any reading notes will be a huge help

Blimey. Your really gonna push my brainbox here

1. Only ones I see missed are master controller and drum switch.

2. Dont forget if you were isolating a coach it wouldn't be via the MRPIC at the coupling blocks. It would be the yellow handles on the MRP pipes between coaches. To answer your question...Yes because if a coach isn't receiving an air supply its LMAG will operate.

3. Wire 13 is fed by the battery. Also see point 9. under 110v

4. This isn't something you need worry about. Just know that if either trip you will get an emergency brake application. Because of 3.

5. Some of these will open the VCB. These ones can be remedied temporarily by pressing pan up/reset

- Any Surge on the motors + (isolate motors whichever end has a fault light lit)
- Earth Fault on any of the motors + (isolate motors whichever end has a fault light lit)
- Primary and Secondary Overload Relay Flags for the transformer in the Fault indication panel (FIP) Cupboard in the PTS coach.
- Traction control MCB in FIP.

These will not and you a dead duck.

- VCB Governor. Even if you can find the air leak not much you can do about it.
- Transformer temperature relay Flag in FIP
- Low Oil level in transformer oil pump.
- Gas or air in the oil via the Bucholz.

6. Egress, Pressing the couple button when there is no other unit or the drum switch in the coupled position on the outer ends. (Train basically thinks their should be another there) this can happen often after uncoupling, quick push of uncouple again does the trick. Faulty door. Taking out your door key on the move and putting in in again Door Control circuit breakers although not sure which ones off the top of my head. Two door keys in.

7. Your minder will go over this with you.

8. Put simply no. No power. No motors. No go.

9. 1050/900 are for the motors only. 240 auxiliaries for the Transformer oil pump, coach heaters, headlight via an inverter and battery charger. Also provides 240 volts AC to the auxiliary transformer & rectifier which together produce the 220 volts DC which runs the main compressor, 110 for radio, PA, aux. compressor, cab controls and all control circuits such as door and brake circuits.

 

[notadriver]

That's highly impressive traction knowledge Slick - and yet there are still many who think train drivers are unskilled and overpaid ....

 

[455driver]

That's highly impressive traction knowledge Slick - and yet there are still many who think train drivers are unskilled and overpaid ....

That's because we only push a few buttons and pull a few levers!

 

[david_VI]

Hi I have a few questions if anyone can help that be great

-snip-


Many thanks I'm a trainee driver and finding the above hard to grasp on traction training for class 315's any reading notes will be a huge help

I'm currently on traction also! You didn't just finish rules a week back did you?

 

[Will.C]

As a driver, if there is ever anything that you are unsure of or a situation arises that you are not quite sure how to react to is there somebody to ask, like signal control or something like that? Whats the procedure? I appreciate that you should have great knowledge of your routes and rules & regs but for maybe a newbie who's not long passed out in a situation thats unknown to them. I know nearly all situations are probably covered in training but are there any out of the ordinary things things that happen that training doesn't cover?

Also what do you do if you approach a signal but there is no aspect showing?

What does flashing double amber mean?

 

[SkinnyDave]

As a driver, if there is ever anything that you are unsure of or a situation arises that you are not quite sure how to react to is there somebody to ask, like signal control or something like that? Whats the procedure? I appreciate that you should have great knowledge of your routes and rules & regs but for maybe a newbie who's not long passed out in a situation thats unknown to them. I know nearly all situations are probably covered in training but are there any out of the ordinary things things that happen that training doesn't cover?

Also what do you do if you approach a signal but there is no aspect showing?



What does flashing double amber mean?

Treat it as set at danger and stop and speak to the signaller

Facing points at the junction ahead are set for a diverging route be prepared to slow your train

 

[ChrisTheRef]

Blimey. Your really gonna push my brainbox here

1. Only ones I see missed are master controller and drum switch.

On 315s, the drum switch is actually part of the interlock circuit, so you lose your interlock - obviously if you're above 6mph it'll then break wire 13 as well.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

As a driver, if there is ever anything that you are unsure of or a situation arises that you are not quite sure how to react to is there somebody to ask, like signal control or something like that? Whats the procedure? I appreciate that you should have great knowledge of your routes and rules & regs but for maybe a newbie who's not long passed out in a situation thats unknown to them. I know nearly all situations are probably covered in training but are there any out of the ordinary things things that happen that training doesn't cover?

As you say, training covers most eventualities. If there's something you just can't get your head around, stay safe. Stop, ring the box, follow instructions.

 

[455driver]

As a driver, if there is ever anything that you are unsure of or a situation arises that you are not quite sure how to react to is there somebody to ask, like signal control or something like that? Whats the procedure? I appreciate that you should have great knowledge of your routes and rules & regs but for maybe a newbie who's not long passed out in a situation thats unknown to them. I know nearly all situations are probably covered in training but are there any out of the ordinary things things that happen that training doesn't cover?

If its a shunt move then ask the signaller to talk you through it.
If its a traction fault you will be on to phone a friend, fleet etc who will advise you what to do.

Also what do you do if you approach a signal but there is no aspect showing?

Treat it as if it is at its most restrictive aspect (route knowledge) and ring the signaller as soon as it is safe to do so to report it.

Going past black signals is very unnerving.

What does flashing double amber mean?

Normally that there is a high speed junction ahead and the route is set for the diverging route, be prepared to slow down if necessary, route knowledge again.

 

[D1733]

Sure you can. Just ask your Driver Manager very nicely if he could arrange to come with you

Yeah thats true i've been with my dad many times in the cab, you just have to have the manager there.

 

[Tomnick]

What does flashing double amber mean?

455driver's already (correctly, of course!) outlined the meaning, but the excellent Railsigns website gives a more detailed explanation if you're interested. More importantly, for the benefit of any equally distressed signalling types, it's yellow and most definitely not amber .

 

[A-driver]

455driver's already (correctly, of course!) outlined the meaning, but the excellent Railsigns website gives a more detailed explanation if you're interested. More importantly, for the benefit of any equally distressed signalling types, it's yellow and most definitely not amber .

My manager is like that-hates anyone saying anything other than yellow! I always shout out 'single orange' doing risk triggered commentary when he is doing a ride out with me just to wind him up!

 

[455driver]

455driver's already (correctly, of course!) outlined the meaning,

Thank you, I do have my moments!

 

[GA_z]

Blimey. Your really gonna push my brainbox here

1. Only ones I see missed are master controller and drum switch.

2. Dont forget if you were isolating a coach it wouldn't be via the MRPIC at the coupling blocks. It would be the yellow handles on the MRP pipes between coaches. To answer your question...Yes because if a coach isn't receiving an air supply its LMAG will operate.

3. Wire 13 is fed by the battery. Also see point 9. under 110v

4. This isn't something you need worry about. Just know that if either trip you will get an emergency brake application. Because of 3.

5. Some of these will open the VCB. These ones can be remedied temporarily by pressing pan up/reset

- Any Surge on the motors + (isolate motors whichever end has a fault light lit)
- Earth Fault on any of the motors + (isolate motors whichever end has a fault light lit)
- Primary and Secondary Overload Relay Flags for the transformer in the Fault indication panel (FIP) Cupboard in the PTS coach.
- Traction control MCB in FIP.

These will not and you a dead duck.

- VCB Governor. Even if you can find the air leak not much you can do about it.
- Transformer temperature relay Flag in FIP
- Low Oil level in transformer oil pump.
- Gas or air in the oil via the Bucholz.

6. Egress, Pressing the couple button when there is no other unit or the drum switch in the coupled position on the outer ends. (Train basically thinks their should be another there) this can happen often after uncoupling, quick push of uncouple again does the trick. Faulty door. Taking out your door key on the move and putting in in again Door Control circuit breakers although not sure which ones off the top of my head. Two door keys in.

7. Your minder will go over this with you.

8. Put simply no. No power. No motors. No go.

9. 1050/900 are for the motors only. 240 auxiliaries for the Transformer oil pump, coach heaters, headlight via an inverter and battery charger. Also provides 240 volts AC to the auxiliary transformer & rectifier which together produce the 220 volts DC which runs the main compressor, 110 for radio, PA, aux. compressor, cab controls and all control circuits such as door and brake circuits.

SLICK you are the man many thanks dude you've helped clarify quite a lot out for myself really appreciate it. Hope you don't mind me tapping further into your Brain box if I get further confused by anything lol.

I finished rules 2.5 weeks ago, traction is fun
But sometimes very illogical just when you think you've got the just of it something will throw your logic out of the window lol

If any one has any notes or materials from their training days please do PM your email so I can run through them any if their are any new trainee drivers out their that are in the same position please do also PM me and I'll b more then happy to forward what I have currently to help

 

[jrhilton]

Something I've always wondered - are the seats you sit in to drive most DMU/EMUs really as uncomfortable as they look!

I'm surprised you don't have highly adjustable seats (more in keeping with what pilots get in many planes) from a safety point of view.

The only ones that look like they have good support and would be ok for more than a few hours are the 450/444 ones? But maybe it is a case of looks being deceiving?

 

[A-driver]

Something I've always wondered - are the seats you sit in to drive most DMU/EMUs really as uncomfortable as they look!



I'm surprised you don't have highly adjustable seats (more in keeping with what pilots get in many planes) from a safety point of view.



The only ones that look like they have good support and would be ok for more than a few hours are the 450/444 ones? But maybe it is a case of looks being deceiving?

Depends on the unit and how long you are in there for. I quite like the seats in 377/365s despite no head rest. The old BR seat which attaches to the back wall (313/455/317/321/456/150 etc etc) isn't too bad but can become very uncomfortable if you spend too long in it, but the big advantage with those BR seats is that they easily fold up to allow you to drive standing up or perched on the top of the seat which is great when tired or uncomfortable sitting. Driving 365/377 etc standing up is very difficult.

 

[driver9000]

Something I've always wondered - are the seats you sit in to drive most DMU/EMUs really as uncomfortable as they look!

I'm surprised you don't have highly adjustable seats (more in keeping with what pilots get in many planes) from a safety point of view.

The only ones that look like they have good support and would be ok for more than a few hours are the 450/444 ones? But maybe it is a case of looks being deceiving?

Modern driving seats are comfortable and fully adjustable. The old tip up seats are fine for short haul work and you can adjust the back rest to a certain degree plus as A-Driver says you could stand up to drive if you wanted. The pedestal seat fitted to the Pacer isn't very nice at all with no adjustment of the back rest possible at all.

 

[t_star2001uk]

Something I've always wondered - are the seats you sit in to drive most DMU/EMUs really as uncomfortable as they look!

I'm surprised you don't have highly adjustable seats (more in keeping with what pilots get in many planes) from a safety point of view.

The only ones that look like they have good support and would be ok for more than a few hours are the 450/444 ones? But maybe it is a case of looks being deceiving?

The seats that we have in our DVT's are very comfortable. High back, Headrest etc.....

 

[HSTfan!!!]

The seat on a 66 isn't too bad, just the rest of the cab isn't brilliantly arranged. 08's are terrible but then you don't spend long on it lol

 

[Cherry_Picker]

What does flashing double amber mean?

You'll get a dry slap if you refer to yellow as amber in my cab, sunshine!

 

[notadriver]

The IEPs will have provision for driving standing up apparently. How will that work?

 

[Will.C]

You'll get a dry slap if you refer to yellow as amber in my cab, sunshine!

Haha, thanks Cherry Picker, Im glad I made this mistake now so not to look silly or get a dry slap off my Instructor when I start my training.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---



Got another question for all the drivers, What was it like driving on your own for the very first time? How long did it take for you to get used to been alone in the cab?

 

[Beveridges]

Pacer seats are dreadful and theres no way to drive stood up either

 

[W230]

Got another question for all the drivers, What was it like driving on your own for the very first time? How long did it take for you to get used to been alone in the cab?

Weird at first. We have to learn all our routes during our driving hours which means that you spend a lot more time with an instructor than you do at some other TOC's. By the time I was passed out I had been with an instructor/assessor for nearly 9 months so then going out on my own felt strange. Every CSR area change beep and AWS indication sounded so loud!

But it's strange how quickly I did get used to being on my own - I reckon only a few days. Now, on the rarity there is someone in the cab with me it feels like a novelty now rather than the norm!

 

[A-driver]

The IEPs will have provision for driving standing up apparently. How will that work?

They are being re-designed to allow the seat to tip up or slide out the way. It was requested by ASLEF when they viewed the mock up.

 

[civ-eng-jim]

LU question - When I've been on one of the tube lines (which one escapes me) on acceleration out of the platform, the traction cuts out for a bit. Is this trip-cock testing? If so, does the driver have to acknowledge that the trip cock is working/not working?

Class 365/465/323 question - They have a very distinct sound on acceleration/deceleration, does the change in pitch indicate when the driver has moved the power controller to the next "notch"?

Thanks all!

 

[asylumxl]

Class 365/465/323 question - They have a very distinct sound on acceleration/deceleration, does the change in pitch indicate when the driver has moved the power controller to the next "notch"?

Thanks all!

I'm not a driver, but in simplified terms. the change in pitch is a result of the change in frequency of electricity being fed in to the motors.

 

[Domh245]

LU question - When I've been on one of the tube lines (which one escapes me) on acceleration out of the platform, the traction cuts out for a bit. Is this trip-cock testing? If so, does the driver have to acknowledge that the trip cock is working/not working?

Class 365/465/323 question - They have a very distinct sound on acceleration/deceleration, does the change in pitch indicate when the driver has moved the power controller to the next "notch"?

Thanks all!

The loss of traction would most likely be going across a gap in the conductor rails (such as at points) and as there is no electricity being supplied to the train, the traction stops. Tripcock testing usually involves driving the train past a tester, which is a hollow rectangle, which if everything is OK, will allow the tripcock to go straight through, but if for whatever reason the tripcock has moved, it'll stop the train.

The frequency changing on the GTO classes (Networker and 323) is not really related to the notches, but as asylumxl says, it is the electronics changing the frequency of the AC supplied to the motor. The electronics slowly increase the frequency, and when the maximum RPM for that frequency is reached, it steps up to the next frequency, and keeps on doing this until the driver shuts off power.

 

[David]

That's because we only push a few buttons and pull a few levers!

Thought it was 2 levers (combiner power and brake handle, and the horn), and 1 button, only to be used in an emergancy! :P

[/takes cover]