Questions about loco driving inside a freight yard

[dmncf]

I was watching a Class 66 being driven around inside a freight yard and two things surprised me:

- The sun was going down and it was dusk. The driver started the Class 66 and drove away from me with no rear red lights illuminated, then reversed and drove past me with front white lights illuminated but again no rear red lights illuminated. Do the rear red lights not come on automatically?

- The driver drove past a ground-level signal. I couldn't see the small lights on the signal, but I could see that the football-sized LED signal sat on top of it was displaying red, before and after the Class 66 passed it. Is this normal - do arrangements in some yards allow this?

I'm not a train driver and am interested in the answers to these questions. I don't intend to name or contact the operating company involved.

 

[GB]

Red lights do not come on automatically...at least not on 66s. Sometimes drivers forget, sometimes they are not put on if just a short shunt in a yard.

As for the signal, almost certainly the football sized signal is a main aspect signal which is disregarded if the two smaller white lights are showing underneath.

 

[68000]

- The driver drove past a ground-level signal. I couldn't see the small lights on the signal, but I could see that the football-sized LED signal sat on top of it was displaying red, before and after the Class 66 passed it. Is this normal - do arrangements in some yards allow this?

.

https://www.rssb.co.uk/rgs/rulebooks/rs521 iss 4.pdf

Section 2.7

 

[dmncf]

Thanks very much for the explanation GB and 68000.

 

[E_Reeves]

I've always wondered what one white and one red light on a calling-on signal means? Anybody know?

 

[Bromley boy]

I've always wondered what one white and one red light on a calling-on signal means? Anybody know?

It means stop. The proceed aspect is two whites.

 

[E_Reeves]

It means stop. The proceed aspect is two whites.

So it's the same as two reds?

 

[pompeyfan]

Do many depots have their own signalling system? Northam for example have a selection of white lights on a black pole that I assume are Read by the lights being at various angles. Oddly though they also have generic stop boards and ground position signals.

 

[Scotrail84]

Do many depots have their own signalling system? Northam for example have a selection of white lights on a black pole that I assume are Read by the lights being at various angles. Oddly though they also have generic stop boards and ground position signals.

Most major depots will have their own signalling system operated by the yard co-ordinator with access to/from the main lines controlled by the main SB for that area.

 

[Val3ntine]

So it's the same as two reds?

Yeah. 2 reds is the newer LED versions, 1 white 1 red will be the traditional colour light with fixed colour lens

 

[pompeyfan]

Most major depots will have their own signalling system operated by the yard co-ordinator with access to/from the main lines controlled by the main SB for that area.

I appreciate most depots have a shutters cabin type places where the depot points and signals are swung, my point was do many depots deviate from the well known 2 reds/ red & white / 2 whites genetic shunt signal.

 

[Bromley boy]

I appreciate most depots have a shutters cabin type places where the depot points and signals are swung, my point was do many depots deviate from the well known 2 reds/ red & white / 2 whites genetic shunt signal.

Quite a few rely on stop boards which shunters have to authorise drivers to pass (shunters can self authorise if they are driving themselves).

 

[sw1ller]

Chester depot has the 1 red 1 white (old) style shunt signals but the main running line has 2 whites/2 reds.

Does anyone know anywhere that uses the yellow shunt signals by the way? I’ve learnt about them but never seen them.

 

[ComUtoR]

Please delete (answer found)

 

[CC 72100]

Does anyone know anywhere that uses the yellow shunt signals by the way? I’ve learnt about them but never seen them.

There's a few around (Fratton / Dr Day's Junction / sidings near Thingley Junction) but I don't think any of those 3 (definitely not the last 2) are in use.

 

[pompeyfan]

Fratton is still illuminated and used to direct movement out of the fuel reception road but it may as well be 2 reds as the head shunt is never used.

 

[JonathanP]

I don't know if it counts but there's one at Highley Station on the Severn Valley Railway, to control movements out of the North End of the sidings onto the running line.

 

[HullMichael]

Last time I was at Worcester Shrub Hill station (a couple of years ago) there was a yellow disc ground signal. Certainly the first I've ever seen. Don't know if it's still there though.

 

[Tom Quinne]

There's a few around (Fratton / Dr Day's Junction / sidings near Thingley Junction) but I don't think any of those 3 (definitely not the last 2) are in use.

The old Bristol Barrow Road waste transfer siding to the headshuntalso had a double yellow shunt GPL, despite the points to the mainline being disconnected and RT3187'ed.

 

[Tom Quinne]

Last time I was at Worcester Shrub Hill station (a couple of years ago) there was a yellow disc ground signal. Certainly the first I've ever seen. Don't know if it's still there though.

Black disc with a yellow stripe? Same principle as the double yellow colour GPL.

 

[tsr]

Does anyone know anywhere that uses the yellow shunt signals by the way? I’ve learnt about them but never seen them.

I believe one of the GPLs on the Up Bay at Oxted can show yellow, also possibly the Salfords Aggregates Yard headshunt by the station.

 

[Tomnick]

I believe one of the GPLs on the Up Bay at Oxted can show yellow, also possibly the Salfords Aggregates Yard headshunt by the station.

If it can show yellow, then it’ll normally show yellow, not red. It’s one or the other.

 

[tsr]

If it can show yellow, then it’ll normally show yellow, not red. It’s one or the other.

I'm pretty sure I've seen one somewhere which can do something multicoloured, but it's been so long since I had to deal with any shunt signal of yellow flavour that I've given up racking my brains!

Interestingly, I can't find any standards which explicitly preclude shunt / ground position light signals (or similar) showing all three colours, should they already be in situ and installed as such.

In any case, it would appear that the two I quoted have actually long been bog standard red/white types, having checked the relevant maps and diagrams...

 

[mugam4]

A yellow light on a shunt signal indicates that you should stop if the points will take you onto a running line.

 

[sw1ller]

No

A yellow light on a shunt signal indicates that you should stop if the points will take you onto a running line.

Not quite right

Yellow is proceed to a shunt neck, if they are yellow the route to the main line won’t be set. They will go white for the main line, they are, to my knowledge, not capable of showing red.

 

[Tomnick]

I'm pretty sure I've seen one somewhere which can do something multicoloured, but it's been so long since I had to deal with any shunt signal of yellow flavour that I've given up racking my brains!

Interestingly, I can't find any standards which explicitly preclude shunt / ground position light signals (or similar) showing all three colours, should they already be in situ and installed as such.

In any case, it would appear that the two I quoted have actually long been bog standard red/white types, having checked the relevant maps and diagrams...

If you can pass it in the normal position for a route to which it doesn’t apply, then it’ll be yellow. If you can’t, then it’ll be red. It *has* to be one or the other - if you’re going to have the ability to switch between yellow and red, you might as well just clear it!

Not quite right

Yellow is proceed to a shunt neck, if they are yellow the route to the main line won’t be set. They will go white for the main line, they are, to my knowledge, not capable of showing red.

You can have the points set out to the main line and still have the shunt signal showing yellow though, e.g. if a move is signalled into the sidings or even just whilst the route is proving. In that case, you shouldn’t pass it.

 

[FGW_DID]

From the rule book:

 

[Mintona]

There’s an old black/yellow stripe shunt disc at Canterbury West which terminating trains have to pass before proceeding back into the up platform.

 

[Foxhunter]

Also from the heritage world, the Mid Hants colour light signalling at Alton was changed a while back from the Red/White Ground Position Light (GPL) to the two reds/ two whites type, I understand because of the more inuitive indication of the newer type.

There are no Yellow Position Lights on the railway, but there are two of the semphore equivalent (yellow stripe on a black background); one at Medstead and Four Marks not readily visible to the public unless you take a Wagon Group yard tour; the other at Ropley for the yard exit, visible from the Kings Cross / Harry Potter bridge.

Operation of the ground signal semaphores is the same as described in the rule book quote in post #27, except that at night the white in the two GPL types is replaced by green in the semaphore equivalents.

 

[sw1ller]

You can have the points set out to the main line and still have the shunt signal showing yellow though, e.g. if a move is signalled into the sidings or even just whilst the route is proving. In that case, you shouldn’t pass it.

Yeah, that’s a fair point. I agree. It’s wording is awful though. I remember threating about it in the classroom as I couldn’t get my little brain around it, but it’s very simple now....... they don’t exist on my network so don’t worry about it! Easy when it’s like that, eh.