Questions about super off peak tickets via London

[Grizzly]

Hello all,
This may have been asked/answered before, but I wasn't sure what to search for. My question is this: if you have an itinerary on a super off peak ticket via London with the second leg on (say) the last train it's valid for before the restricted times, what would happen if (a) a delay/cancellation on the first leg into London caused you to miss the the train you had planned on, or (b) if the last super off peak train was cancelled. Would you then have to wait for the end of the restricted time or upgrade your ticket, or is this covered by delay conditions, i.e. could you use it on a train outside of validity as a result of delay/cancellation en route?
thanks
Grizzly

 

[gray1404]

If a delay/cancellation to a service causes you to miss your connection or if your intended train is delayed/cancelled you are entitled to take the available next trains(s) to complete your journey. You still have to adhere to any operator restrictions on your tickets (such as Avanti West Coast Only, LNER Only etc). In this case, you are not required to wait for any time restrictions to pass. You intended to make your journey at a time your ticket was valid and it is not your fault a delay occurs.

 

[Grizzly]

Thanks, that's very helpful.

 

[Paul Kelly]

If a delay/cancellation to a service causes you to miss your connection or if your intended train is delayed/cancelled you are entitled to take the available next trains(s) to complete your journey. You still have to adhere to any operator restrictions on your tickets (such as Avanti West Coast Only, LNER Only etc).

I thought this only applied to advance fares, not walk-up fares?

In this case, you are not required to wait for any time restrictions to pass.

Does anyone have a quotable source for this?

 

[yorkie]

I think that it's probably covered under contract and consumer laws however there is nothing explicitly stated in the NRCoT, which is a bad move on the rail industry's part.

It would be crazy for the rail industry to massively increase its Delay Repay liabilities and keep a customer waiting unnecessarily.

Any service provided must be carried out with "reasonable care and skill", so if a delay occurred, reasonable care and skill would require the train company to act in a manner that minimises the delay, rather than cause unnecessary delay.

 

[plugwash]

It would be crazy for the rail industry to massively increase its Delay Repay liabilities and keep a customer waiting unnecessarily.

Sure, but I'm nervous about relying on the "rail industry to be non-crazy", when buying an anytime ticket home from London would cost nearly £200, and excessing my existing off peak return ticket would cost even more.

Does anyone here have practical experience of how this is handled on the ground, especially in regards to Euston.

 

[Grizzly]

I thought this only applied to advance fares, not walk-up fares?Does anyone have a quotable source for this?

That would be very useful.

Sure, but I'm nervous about relying on the "rail industry to be non-crazy", when buying an anytime ticket home from London would cost nearly £200, and excessing my existing off peak return ticket would cost even more.

Does anyone here have practical experience of how this is handled on the ground, especially in regards to Euston.

Me too, and more so on behalf of a family member unfamiliar with the technicalities of railway ticketing.
Paddington was the station the journey I was thinking about would use.

 

[yorkie]

My advice would be as follows
- book through a good retailer who will back you up if a dispute arises
- obtain a through itinerary and ensure you stick to it as much as possible and seek advice if delays occur
- if you miss the train due to delays, and are denied boarding the next one, pay the excess fare under duress using a credit card
- submit a refund request for the excess fare from the TOC who incorrectly charged you
- submit a Delay Repay claim for the original date from the TOC who delayed you. Mention that the other TOC charged an excess fare and that you are seeking to obtain a refund for this

Let me know about it as I am keen to hear of any test cases in this area.

Depending on which TOC you bought it through, that retailer may even have a presence on this forum, which would be useful.

In some cases we would have contacts at both the retailer and the TOC through this forum and in those cases I would be absolutely confident of a good resolution. It would be great to them highlight the incorrect charge as an example of a breach of contract and consumer laws to relevant bodies such as the ORR.

But until we have a test case the whole thing remains fairly hypothetical and the ORR are probably not going to be interested.

 

[some bloke]

Maybe ask retailer(s)/TOC(s) to confirm the position in writing before the problem arises?

 

[Grizzly]

Thanks for all the advice everyone. The trip in question will now be later rather than sooner, but will note it all.
Hoping there won't be a delay or any problems if there is, but I'll be back to report if there are.