Questions regarding the rules for purchasing train tickets in the Netherlands.

[radamfi]

Although in London you can just get a free ride if you don't have cash. I see it happen all the time. If you approach the driver and try to pay with cash and say that you don't have a contactless card or oyster card then they just give you a free ride. It seems like a lot of the locals (who probably do have contactless cards and oyster cards) have found out about this and use it to get free travel every day on London buses. At least this is just in London for now rather than the entire country like the Netherlands and Sweden are.

Many places have open boarding. For example most German and Swiss cities. So it is really no different to that.

 

[MisterT]

The rule is: buy before you board.

If you do not have a valid ticket when a guard comes by, they will write you an unpaid fare notice. The UFN includes a € 50 fine (pre-printed), a guard can not decide not to charge this fine.

Once you've received the UFN by post you can contact customer services and ask for the € 50 fine to be refunded. It's at the discretion of the customer services employee whether or not this will be the case.

This is not entirely correct. The guard will ask you to pay the ticket + 50 euro fine directly in cash (on international trains it is also possible to pay by card). After paying, the guard will give you a handwritten ticket.
It is only when you can't pay on the spot that you'll be issued an unpaid fare notice. For this option, the guard will ask for a valid ID.

On the question regarding the broken ticket machine:
In this case, find the guard as soon as possible and tell him/her that the machine was broken (in case of visual damage, take a picture and show that). You'll get an unpaid fare notice, but without the 50 euro fine.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I've just downloaded the NS App for a trip later this year.
Unlike the NS web site, it seems to work only in Dutch.
Is there an English option?

 

[AlexNL]

I've just downloaded the NS App for a trip later this year.
Unlike the NS web site, it seems to work only in Dutch.
Is there an English option?

In the app, tap on "Meer", "Instellingen" and then "Taal". This lets you choose between Dutch and English.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

In the app, tap on "Meer", "Instellingen" and then "Taal". This lets you choose between Dutch and English.

Done, thank you very much.
It tells me my NS train has zero carbon footprint as it runs on wind power!

 

[AlexNL]

It tells me my NS train has zero carbon footprint as it runs on wind power!

That's correct

The Dutch railways consume a lot of power, which is harmful to the environment. We said to ourselves: this has to change. And thus, as of 1 January 2017, all Dutch trains will be 100% powered by wind power.

A typical Dutchman can deal with a little wind, no?

Did you know that a wind turbine running for 1 hour, will get you from Utrecht to Groningen?

Traveling on wind power, it turns my world around!

"In a personal video message to Dutch rail users, NS CEO Roger van Boxtel announced that all NS trains will run on wind power for the full 100% from 1 January 2017. NS now lets you travel all over the Netherlands by train without contributing to climate change. This is a global first for the Netherlands. "

 

[rg177]

Only a few Albert Heijn branches accept Visa, mostly in tourist areas such as Schiphol, Amsterdam and some other railway stations. Some smaller branches don't accept cash or Visa/Mastercard, meaning many international visitors can't pay.

Yes from what I recall I don't think I used one outside of a station.

Den Haag and 's Hertogenbosch accepted my card no problem along with Schiphol, Amsterdam stations and the like.

I'm back there again tomorrow until Tuesday afternoon so will hopefully avoid starving to death

 

[radamfi]

Yes from what I recall I don't think I used one outside of a station.

Den Haag and 's Hertogenbosch accepted my card no problem along with Schiphol, Amsterdam stations and the like.

I'm back there again tomorrow until Tuesday afternoon so will hopefully avoid starving to death

It says on the website which branches accept credit cards and foreign debit cards

https://www.ah.nl/klantenservice (search for "creditcard" in one word)

Er is wel een aantal AH winkels waar je met jouw creditcard of buitenlandse pre-paid debetkaart kunt betalen: de winkels op Schiphol, veel stationswinkels, de winkel achter het paleis op de Dam in Amsterdam en de winkel aan de Weteringschans in Amsterdam.

Heb je een buitenlandse bankpas met het Maestro logo of het V-Pay logo? Met deze pas kan je wel bij al onze winkels afrekenen. Digitaal betalen zit momenteel in de testfase en kan in enkele winkels.

Schiphol, many railway station shops and two stores in Amsterdam. They do accept foreign Maestro and V-Pay cards.

 

[radamfi]

I can understand re credit cards, but the issue is that for most of the English speaking world debit cards are processed via the credit card systems so are MasterCards and Visa cards the same.

Are Visa and Mastercard debit cards more expensive for retailers than Maestro/V-Pay? Is so, surely the solution is that we need to get British (and other countries) banks to switch to Maestro and V-Pay? If British retailers have to absorb higher transaction costs than Dutch retailers, at the end of the day the money comes from the customer.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Are Visa and Mastercard debit cards more expensive for retailers than Maestro/V-Pay? Is so, surely the solution is that we need to get British (and other countries) banks to switch to Maestro and V-Pay? If British retailers have to absorb higher transaction costs than Dutch retailers, at the end of the day the money comes from the customer.

I'm not entirely sure, but Maestro (Switch variant) used to be common in the UK, but all banks who issued it have now converted to MasterCard or Visa.

If the transaction fees are higher, logic is that rather than barring fees the retailer should be able to pass them on. I'd rather have to pay an extra 50p than not be able to travel.

Just did a quick Google and V-Pay can't do currency conversion, so definitely inferior. Don't know if Maestro can, but UK issued Maestro cards used to have fairly swingeing transaction fees (£2 per transaction springs to mind) which Visa and MasterCard don't. So to me logic would be to abolish V-Pay and Maestro and all payments should be processed via the global credit card acceptance systems.

 

[radamfi]

I'm not entirely sure, but Maestro (Switch variant) used to be common in the UK, but all banks who issued it have now converted to MasterCard or Visa.

If the transaction fees are higher, logic is that rather than barring fees the retailer should be able to pass them on. I'd rather have to pay an extra 50p than not be able to travel.

Just did a quick Google and V-Pay can't do currency conversion, so definitely inferior. Don't know if Maestro can, but UK issued Maestro cards used to have fairly swingeing transaction fees (£2 per transaction springs to mind) which Visa and MasterCard don't. So to me logic would be to abolish V-Pay and Maestro and all payments should be processed via the global credit card acceptance systems.

Aren't card charges in the EU illegal now? That means retailers have to choose between absorbing a higher fee and refusing the card. NS chose to accept Visa/MasterCard without fees.

 

[button_boxer]

Are Visa and Mastercard debit cards more expensive for retailers than Maestro/V-Pay? Is so, surely the solution is that we need to get British (and other countries) banks to switch to Maestro and V-Pay? If British retailers have to absorb higher transaction costs than Dutch retailers, at the end of the day the money comes from the customer.

I run a shop and we are charged the same for all UK debit cards - Visa, MasterCard debit, Maestro and V-Pay (though I can’t remember the last time I saw one of the last two types in the wild). Slightly higher fees for UK credit cards, higher still for corporate and international. And highest of all would be Amex but that would also require a separate merchant agreement with amex so we don’t bother - I’ve only twice (in almost four years) had someone ask me if they can pay by amex so it hardly seems worth the hassle.

 

[radamfi]

I run a shop and we are charged the same for all UK debit cards - Visa, MasterCard debit, Maestro and V-Pay (though I can’t remember the last time I saw one of the last two types in the wild).

Is that in the UK or Netherlands? I suspect Maestro is cheaper than Visa/MasterCard in the Netherlands or else they would accept Visa and MasterCard without fuss.

 

[tasky]

Just because you prefer not to deal with cash doesn't make a national preference to carry on doing so in any way bizarre, just different. Frankly I would prefer that both cash and cards continue to be used side-by-side in order to maintain customer choice. Insistence on avoiding cash is needlessly inconveniencing people who are uncomfortable with card transactions: there are good reasons why some feel that way. Though I don't mind a (very) small surcharge if a business can genuinely justify it.

It's not needless on buses. Having lived in London for a few years, the culture shock of trying to take a bus in a city where they still accept cash onboard was huge - it can take as long as five or ten minutes to process all the passengers when it's busy for something that in London is a 30 second job. Not just once, but at every stop! Getting rid of cash on buses is one of the best things TfL has done and was a fast and cheap way to hugely speed up services.

 

[MisterT]

While cash payment was already on its way back in terms of usage, there were a few robberies throughout the country. The bus drivers didn't feel safe anymore, and with that, the case for cashless busses was quite easy to make.

 

[swt class 450]

Personally i am not a fan of cashless buses or of anything going cashless. You have to remember that even with increased card usage there will still always be some people who don't have a bank account or some that do but prefer to use cash. I am one of the people who prefers using cash. Personally i find it a lot easier and simpler than using a card. Why should these people be left out.

I work as a bus driver myself and my bus company is entirely cash only (we don't accept contactless cards either) and it works perfectly fine. We have absolutely no problems with it. Passengers know to take cash to buy their ticket. Sure dwell times might sometimes be a bit long when lots of people are buying tickets and you are giving lots of change but that is no different to waiting to pay for something in a shop. People are used to it. It is just part of riding a bus. Bus operators have accepted cash on bus for over 100 years so why should we stop now.

I wouldn't say the TFL system is perfect. As i have said previously it has resulted in many people getting free rides. If you board a TFL bus and try to pay in cash and tell the driver that you don't have a contactless card or oyster card then they will let you ride for free. I see it happen all the time when i have travelled on TFL buses. Many of these people probably do have contactless cards or oyster cards but know that they can just do this to get a free ride. So TFL must be loosing a lot of money.

 

[radamfi]

Personally i am not a fan of cashless buses or of anything going cashless. You have to remember that even with increased card usage there will still always be some people who don't have a bank account or some that do but prefer to use cash. I am one of the people who prefers using cash. Personally i find it a lot easier and simpler than using a card. Why should these people be left out.

I work as a bus driver myself and my bus company is entirely cash only (we don't accept contactless cards either) and it works perfectly fine. We have absolutely no problems with it. Passengers know to take cash to buy their ticket. Sure dwell times might sometimes be a bit long when lots of people are buying tickets and you are giving lots of change but that is no different to waiting to pay for something in a shop. People are used to it. It is just part of riding a bus. Bus operators have accepted cash on bus for over 100 years so why should we stop now.

I wouldn't say the TFL system is perfect. As i have said previously it has resulted in many people getting free rides. If you board a TFL bus and try to pay in cash and tell the driver that you don't have a contactless card or oyster card then they will let you ride for free. I see it happen all the time when i have travelled on TFL buses. Many of these people probably do have contactless cards or oyster cards but know that they can just do this to get a free ride. So TFL must be loosing a lot of money.

Aren't you worried about being assaulted and being robbed of your cash? Keeping dwell times as short as possible is absolutely critical if you are interested in making public transport attractive to car users. Longer dwell times means longer journey times, which means more buses required to run the same frequency. Also lost revenue due to reduced ridership due to slow service.

In many countries, bus drivers are not responsible for ensuring that people pay the fare and passengers just walk on the bus. Instead inspectors make random inspections and people caught without a ticket get fined heavily. So whilst there is some lost revenue through evasion, a lot of that is recouped through fines, and fines act as a deterrent against some fare evasion.

London and Manchester trams don’t even allow on board payment and I don’t see any complaints about that despite trams in other countries allowing people to pay the driver.

 

[swt class 450]

I have never been assaulted or robbed of my cash so far in my career. Yes i know it does happen but the same thing can happen in a shop. I am sure there are many shop workers who have been assaulted or robbed of their cash. Screens on the cab door are also a good option to ensure the safety of the driver and to ensure that cash doesn't get stolen. It has always surprised me that most buses outside of the UK where the driver handles cash (even in big capital cities) don't have screens.

 

[theageofthetra]

There was a supermarket in Amsterdam which was card only , i only realised at the till.

As for cards abroad , costly to use for small purchases as itsan extra £2 each time you pay

Not if you use a Halifax Clarity Mastercard. Has no fees and the exchange rate is excellent- way better than cash . Use it all over the world.

 

[jamesontheroad]

I would say that the Netherlands and Sweden are the worst countries for passengers who wish to use cash (or only have cash on them). Both of these countries have pretty much completely gotten rid of cash on all of their buses and are making it difficult to use cash on their trains.

No just buses and trains. In the words of a Swedish colleague a few months ago, “not even my bank takes cash any more.” A number of major bank branches are now cashless, ostensibly for security but also to lower the costs of handling coins and banknotes.

 

[sprunt]

I wouldn't say the TFL system is perfect. As i have said previously it has resulted in many people getting free rides. If you board a TFL bus and try to pay in cash and tell the driver that you don't have a contactless card or oyster card then they will let you ride for free. I see it happen all the time when i have travelled on TFL buses. Many of these people probably do have contactless cards or oyster cards but know that they can just do this to get a free ride. So TFL must be loosing a lot of money.

I've never seen this happen - in my experience, the driver will not allow anyone to travel without paying, and if you refuse to alight they will stop the bus and call the police. Frankly, I don't believe that you see it happen "all the time", not least because I regularly travel on buses in London and an overwhelming majority of the time nobody attempts to pay cash, they all know perfectly well that they must touch in with an Oyster card or a contactless card, and do so.

 

[swt class 450]

Well i have seen it happen on around 15 different occasions since cash was withdrawn. It mainly seems to be on routes out in the suburbs. I guess it depends on what you count as regularly.

 

[radamfi]

Even before TfL cashless, people used to fare dodge by presenting a £20 note to the driver, and much of the time the driver wouldn't have change and just let the passenger on the bus to avoid any hassle. Also, New Bus for London routes as well as routes 507 and 521 are open boarding so the driver doesn't check tickets on those routes anyway. It is up to TfL to provide a reasonable number of inspectors.

 

[paddington]

I observed people getting free rides on buses in Stockholm due to them not taking anything but the SL card (well you can use the app but the bus driver isn't going to argue). Just act clueless, speak English and offer a 100 kronor note... Or even offer to pay by card since it isn't accepted either.

OTOH, buses in Istanbul only accept the Istanbulkart, which can only be bought and topped up with cash - but drivers won't let you on for free if you don't have one.

I always have a large stash of 2 euro coins to buy my train tickets in NL. I refuse to pay more than 75p for one euro so I will not use card until the exchange rate improves. I buy my 2 euro coins for £1.40 each so am not too bothered about the €1 fee for a single use ticket.

Revolut has changed things a bit though, as I now exchange my euros to Scottish pounds in Bangkok or Warsaw then immediately buy euros (and Swedish kronor) on Revolut, so I now have a card I can use where cash is not accepted.

I also took out a Hong Kong credit card which pays 6.4% cashback on foreign spending (but has a 1.95% forex fee). The problem with this card is that it has no PIN so for spends above the contactless limit a signature is required and it therefore can't be used at unattended points of sale like ticket machines.

 

[radamfi]

I also took out a Hong Kong credit card which pays 6.4% cashback on foreign spending (but has a 1.95% forex fee). The problem with this card is that it has no PIN so for spends above the contactless limit a signature is required and it therefore can't be used at unattended points of sale like ticket machines.

Is this available to UK residents?

 

[paddington]

Is this available to UK residents?

Not unless you have a current connection to Hong Kong, or you opened an account many years ago when anybody could do so. But this is off topic... as was the derailment of this thread into anti- vs pro-cash (which seems to happen frequently)

 

[geoffk]

I've no problem with that, indeed I'd be quite happy if the UK went that way as well, and I always pay by (Mastercard debit, usually) card whenever it is an option. But the key problem with the Netherlands is that they use their own "PINpas" system which is I think sort-of based on Eurocheque cards (as Germany was for a long time) and thus isn't compatible with the Visa and Mastercard based credit and debit card systems used just about everywhere else in the world. And Amex? That definitely won't do nicely!

For a country that is quite small and so internationally-focused (demonstrated by many things but not least the fact that English is spoken better there than in much of England), this is one aspect that is even more bizarre than Germany's obsession with cash (and the correct change).

I've only ever used an area runabout ticket in the Netherlands so I've not come across this problem. I get annoyed in UK by people who use cards for small payments as it takes longer. I always have cash on me and use it for small purchases, and expect the correct change. And, yes I still use cheques.