Quick win schemes that would be good politically for our new goverment.

[Halifaxlad]

I dont think this has been done so the mods can happily close it if it has.

Suggest your quick win schemes that would be good politically.

Maximum up to three suggestions at anyone time!

My three would be:

1) A 3rd platform at Middlesborough

2) Electrification from Sheffield to Moorthorpe.

3) A 3rd platform at Halifax

 

[mrcheek]

I think Blackadder series 4 already answered this one, when asked how Field Marshall Haig could improve morale....

 

[Halifaxlad]

I think Blackadder series 4 already answered this one, when asked how Field Marshall Haig could improve morale....

The best comment so far

Gave me a little giggle.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

South Eastern platforms at Brockley!

 

[HSTEd]

What does electrification from Sheffield to Moorthorpe get us?
Wouldn't that just leave us with an electrified Sheffield station that almost nothing could actually use?

If we are looking at 60 single track kilometres, I don't think its the 60stkm I would chose!

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's only a quick-ish win, but I think you would make a very large proportion of rail users a lot happier (given what a high proportion of rail journeys use it) if you agreed to fund a Euston rebuild into a fit for purpose station, even if it meant some pain while it was being done. I suspect this would be the most popular rail project that could even be contemplated at the moment.

Another one I'd do is wire Windermere, as it'd be dead easy, as well as East West Rail and the Marston Vale (removing some diesel islands), but I don't think they would get the political points for those as they're more obscure.

 

[Halifaxlad]

What does electrification from Sheffield to Moorthorpe get us?
Wouldn't that just leave us with an electrified Sheffield station that almost nothing could actually use?

If we are looking at 60 single track kilometres, I don't think its the 60stkm I would chose!

The ability for an electric intercity service.

FYI we are looking at political wins!

 

[daodao]

FYI we are looking at political wins!

Many people don't want to see quick political wins for this government; only a third of voters backed it at the recent general election.

 

[Western Lord]

Anybody who thinks that their are votes in railways should take a little history lesson. In 1964 the Labour Party campaigned against the Beeching cuts. They won the 1964 General Election with a small majority and in the next couple of years closed thousands of miles of railway. In 1966 they called another election and massively increased their majority.

 

[daodao]

Anybody who thinks that their are votes in railways should take a little history lesson. In 1964 the Labour Party campaigned against the Beeching cuts. They won the 1964 General Election with a small majority and in the next couple of years closed thousands of miles of railway. In 1966 they called another election and massively increased their majority.

And continued to close lines on a massive scale, including major main lines, until defeated in 1970. Scrapping the "Restore Your Railway" scheme, which included lots of little projects such as re-opening Wellington and Cullompton stations, shows that this new government doesn't care about railway infrastructure developments.

 

[JonathanH]

And continued to close lines on a massive scale until defeated in 1970.

Those closures continued into the early 1970s.

The idea that there are 'quick wins' on the railway for a political party is relatively far fetched. The best quick wins would probably be things that save money and allow the political party not to have to make difficult decisions elsewhere.

 

[HSTEd]

The ability for an electric intercity service.

FYI we are looking at political wins!

From where to where?
AFAIK the line from Sheffield south is not yet actually committed to electrification.

If there are any votes to be won on the railway, I expect the best way to get them is just to order a pile of electrodiesel FLIRTs with level boarding, then send as much of the ROSCO owned legacy diesel stock for razorblades as possible.

 

[skyhigh]

3) A 3rd platform at Halifax

What use would that be?

 

[cle]

I dont think this has been done so the mods can happily close it if it has.

Suggest your quick win schemes that would be good politically.

Maximum up to three suggestions at anyone time!

My three would be:

1) A 3rd platform at Middlesborough

2) Electrification from Sheffield to Moorthorpe.

3) A 3rd platform at Halifax

I hate to be glib, but these are so parochial / random / unimportant in the grand scheme of things - they would not do one jot to the government's perception or help the general public. I suspect they would be personally appealing to you

For political gain, let's think about gen pop, not us rail nerds...

>Sort out Euston scrum experience - (remove ads / bring back departure boards / announce platforms sooner)
> Better onboard food and beverage options (fun JP-style vending machines? - could also be on many platforms - there are ramen ones, good salad ones in US airports etc)
> Clarify connections like in Switzerland (screen in each carriage with platform numbers/times for connecting services at each station, including bus/tram)
> Simplify and standardize services to clockface, to same terminus where possible, to minimize conflicts/crossings (thinking South London multitudes or Manc Picc/Vic splits) - even if it removes perceived choice and seems unpopular, it will build usage. E.g. Hayes should be 4tph to the same place. Same with each route (2 or 4tph) through Wigan and Bolton.
> Cleaner, nicer, staffed stations with sheltered waiting areas, coffee/tea options, friendly staff.

edit bonus - every train should have wifi, that works in tunnels.... competition with cars and planes is the ability to be productive (or entertained!) -

 

[Halifaxlad]

I hate to be glib, but these are so parochial / random / unimportant in the grand scheme of things - they would not do one jot to the government's perception or help the general public. I suspect they would be personally appealing to you

For political gain, let's think about gen pop, not us rail nerds...

>Sort out Euston scrum experience - (remove ads / bring back departure boards / announce platforms sooner)
> Better onboard food and beverage options (fun JP-style vending machines? - could also be on many platforms - there are ramen ones, good salad ones in US airports etc)
> Clarify connections like in Switzerland (screen in each carriage with platform numbers/times for connecting services at each station, including bus/tram)
> Simplify and standardize services to clockface, to same terminus where possible, to minimize conflicts/crossings (thinking South London multitudes or Manc Picc/Vic splits) - even if it removes perceived choice and seems unpopular, it will build usage. E.g. Hayes should be 4tph to the same place. Same with each route (2 or 4tph) through Wigan and Bolton.
> Cleaner, nicer, staffed stations with sheltered waiting areas, coffee/tea options, friendly staff.

edit bonus - every train should have wifi, that works in tunnels.... competition with cars and planes is the ability to be productive (or entertained!) -

Investment in rail does appeal to me! Middlesborough is out of my area and Leeds to Sheffield isnt a regular route.
I maybe from Halifax but that doesn't make me bias in anyform, there is good reason to construct a 3rd platform at Halifax which could be good PR too. At the moment the goverment will be more inclined to fund investment schemes rather than things like Wifi in tunnels which I doubt the media will be interested in.

 

[InTheEastMids]

So, I looked at BBC news coverage of National Rail. Most stories are about disruption, typically due to infrastructure failings. As pointed out above and in discussions since the dawn of time on here, the other main issues people talk about are overcrowding (of many trains, but only 1 station) and train fares.

So my quick wins are:
Infrastructure failures: More money at weather resilience and recovery, especially earthworks, broken rails, flooding etc.
Overcrowding: get the currently idle 175s, Mk5 and Avanti 221 cast-offs redeployed and get other delayed stock (701, 810) into service. Do something, anything at Euston.
Prices: Probably not much to do as to be honest there is no point stimulating a load of demand that you can't handle, but improvements to things like cross-TOC ticket acceptance and the egregious use of private prosecutions by Northern could probably be sorted out by a ministerial instruction.

 

[800001]

I dont think this has been done so the mods can happily close it if it has.

Suggest your quick win schemes that would be good politically.

Maximum up to three suggestions at anyone time!

My three would be:

1) A 3rd platform at Middlesborough

2) Electrification from Sheffield to Moorthorpe.

3) A 3rd platform at Halifax

Third platform at Middlesbrough is under way, and station signs, I am lead to believe show directions to platform 3.

 

[yorksrob]

Anybody who thinks that their are votes in railways should take a little history lesson. In 1964 the Labour Party campaigned against the Beeching cuts. They won the 1964 General Election with a small majority and in the next couple of years closed thousands of miles of railway. In 1966 they called another election and massively increased their majority.

And continued to close lines on a massive scale, including major main lines, until defeated in 1970. Scrapping the "Restore Your Railway" scheme, which included lost of little projects such as re-opening Wellington and Cullompton stations, shows that this new government doesn't care about railway infrastructure developments.

But don't forget that the only realistic alternative at the time, not only endorsed the disastrous closure programme, but started it.

Someone concerned about cuts to their railway service really didn't have anywhere to go by 1966 after Marples/Fraser.

Those closures continued into the early 1970s.

The idea that there are 'quick wins' on the railway for a political party is relatively far fetched. The best quick wins would probably be things that save money and allow the political party not to have to make difficult decisions elsewhere.

I don't think that this is true. Something not too expensive but passenger friendly could induce some positivity amongst the electorate.

My suggestions:

- All off-peak Fridays. Given Scotrail weren't far off breaking even with five days off peak, Fridays could make money.

- National railcard. This could bring a material benefit to a large swathe of the electorate.

- Bonfire of red tape - in the form of silly route restrictions. Go back to a logical base fares system of day, off peak and (possibly) peak fares.

By all means have your cheapy discounts alongside these, but remove the ability of fly-by-night companies to remove day returns, reasonable routes etc just because it suits them.

 

[Bertie the bus]

I hate to be glib, but these are so parochial / random / unimportant in the grand scheme of things - they would not do one jot to the government's perception or help the general public. I suspect they would be personally appealing to you

For political gain, let's think about gen pop, not us rail nerds...

>Sort out Euston scrum experience - (remove ads / bring back departure boards / announce platforms sooner)
> Better onboard food and beverage options (fun JP-style vending machines? - could also be on many platforms - there are ramen ones, good salad ones in US airports etc)
> Clarify connections like in Switzerland (screen in each carriage with platform numbers/times for connecting services at each station, including bus/tram)
> Simplify and standardize services to clockface, to same terminus where possible, to minimize conflicts/crossings (thinking South London multitudes or Manc Picc/Vic splits) - even if it removes perceived choice and seems unpopular, it will build usage. E.g. Hayes should be 4tph to the same place. Same with each route (2 or 4tph) through Wigan and Bolton.
> Cleaner, nicer, staffed stations with sheltered waiting areas, coffee/tea options, friendly staff.

edit bonus - every train should have wifi, that works in tunnels.... competition with cars and planes is the ability to be productive (or entertained!) -

You criticise someone's choices and then come up with even worse ones. Virtually nobody cares about catering on trains. If they did it wouldn't have been almost eradicated. Nobody cares in the slightest about clock face timetables either. The Euston scrum affects a miniscule number of people and when it drops off the news nobody will remember it or care. As for staffed stations with catering - do you really think adding potentially £billions to the cost of the railway is a quick win?

 

[Magdalia]

Suggest your quick win schemes that would be good politically.

I was very fond of quick wins in my management career, especially when moving into a new post. But quick would mean weeks or months, not years.

The railway moves at a glacial pace on new infrastructure, new trains and new timetables. nothing here qualifies as a quick win.

Recruitment of drivers isn't quick either, given the time it takes to go through the recruitment and training process.

Imagine proposing your quick win to Louise Haigh or Lord Hendy. Is it going to give them some positive news in the coming weeks and months? Is it going to be something that has made a visible difference that voters will remember in 2029?

The biggest and best railway quick win that I can think of was the launch of Network SouthEast. Chris Green took over in London and South East in November 1985 and launched Network SouthEast in June 1986. That was quick!

 

[6Gman]

Another one I'd do is wire Windermere, as it'd be dead easy, as well as East West Rail and the Marston Vale (removing some diesel islands), but I don't think they would get the political points for those as they're more obscure.

Since the Windermere branch is in a constituency where Labour came 4th, with 4.7% of the vote and one of their few lost deposits, I doubt there's much political capital for them there.

 

[brad465]

Announce a fare freeze for the next year, and maybe even a fare cut. Then worry about the revenue shortfall later on (we are talking quick wins here).

 

[Magdalia]

Announce a fare freeze for the next year, and maybe even a fare cut. Then worry about the revenue shortfall later on (we are talking quick wins here).

That's taking an early lead but ending up losing. The UK government financial position doesn't allow for worrying about revenue shortfalls later.

 

[Harpo]

Big ticket stuff (trains or infrastructure) can’t be done quickly, even with stock that’s off-lease , except possibly in XC’s case.

Rachel Reeves wants growth and the industry has the talent to deliver it through GBR so,

- Shift control from DfT to GBR and take the brakes off of initiative.
- Recreate a welcoming passenger railway network by:
Making connections work reliably
Simplifying fares
Eliminating TOC-specific fares
(even if there’s an IC supplement)
Improving seat comfort
Banning shouting at customers
More (enforced) quiet areas on board
Finally kill ‘See it, say it…’ and agree a way to reduce the other aural dross.

A quick revisit of what InterCity was trying to do with its ‘Relax’ ad campaign in the 90s wouldn’t go amiss!

 

[daodao]

Rachel Reeves wants growth and the industry has the talent to deliver it through GBR so,

- Shift control from DfT to GBR and take the brakes off of initiative.

The key feature of the Labour party, particularly under Starmer, is control. I don't expect that Reeves will reduce DfT and Treasury control over rail expenditure. They talk of "growth", but abhor laissez-faire and initiative.

 

[InTheEastMids]

Big ticket stuff (trains or infrastructure) can’t be done quickly, even with stock that’s off-lease , except possibly in XC’s case.

Rachel Reeves wants growth and the industry has the talent to deliver it through GBR so,

- Shift control from DfT to GBR and take the brakes off of initiative.
- Recreate a welcoming passenger railway network by:
Making connections work reliably
Simplifying fares
Eliminating TOC-specific fares
(even if there’s an IC supplement)
Improving seat comfort
Banning shouting at customers
More (enforced) quiet areas on board
Finally kill ‘See it, say it…’ and agree a way to reduce the other aural dross.

A quick revisit of what InterCity was trying to do with its ‘Relax’ ad campaign in the 90s wouldn’t go amiss!

Slavishly sticking to the "quick win" theme of the thread, I'm not sure I agree that "making connections work reliably" is necessarily a quick win as one reason they frequently don't is down to network capacity and resilience.

Seat comfort. If the 810s turn out to have dreadful seats, we are probably stuck with them until their midlife refurb in the 2040s. If GBR wanted the 80x in the IEP contract to have new seats, it will probably take ages to negotiate and come at a colossal cost, so the quick win is probably getting some consultants to write a standard for seat comfort for future procurement.

Would also say that banning TOC-specific fares would be viewed by passengers as stealth fare increases, and the wider simplification of train fares is such a frightening project that nobody's been brave enough to do it. There will always be some losers and this could cost Louise Haigh a lot of political capital and the wider industry a lot of passenger goodwill, e.g. with the LNER trial, about the only person on social media I've seen defend it is David Horne, who happens to be the Managing Director of LNER.

So, in this post I've managed to convince myself that big ticket infrastructure stuff (at least announcing it, re-announcing it, or announcing a feasibility study into it) are the quick wins , especially HS2 Euston and Ph2a where all the necessary consents are in place, and MML electrification where NR is (or at least was) doing procurement.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

If I cannot have my Brockley Grand Central Hauptbahnhof Victoria station, then I think a "quick win" would be to get the GBR branding as brilliant as possible. Obviously we've spoken about it at length, but I think a national railway really is a badge of identity for a nation. And since this is a brand new, national railway in a troubled time for our country, I think getting it right would really be a quick win.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If I cannot have my Brockley Grand Central Hauptbahnhof Victoria station, then I think a "quick win" would be to get the GBR branding as brilliant as possible. Obviously we've spoken about it at length, but I think a national railway really is a badge of identity for a nation. And since this is a brand new, national railway in a troubled time for our country, I think getting it right would really be a quick win.

I would agree with this, but sadly I don't think the 1970s style Rail Alphabet 2 plus BR symbol in classic newspaper black, white and red is it, and it's likely going to be that. So I can no more see that happening than a Euston rebuild.

 

[yorksrob]

They need something that meets the following three criteria if it is to translate into a substantial political win:

- quick implementation
- has an immediate positive effect for travellers - i.e promotes feel good factor
- can be replicated nationwide

Big infrastructure fails 1 and 3.
Small infrastructure fails 3 if not 1
Sourcing more trains fails 3 if not 1
Branding changes fail 2.

The only thing that can meet all three is a fares reform or offer of some sort.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

They need something that meets the following three criteria if it is to translate into a substantial political win:

- quick implementation
- has an immediate positive effect for travellers - i.e promotes feel good factor
- can be replicated nationwide

I don't think it's essential to hit all three criteria: although 1 and 2 are essential for it to be a quick win, there are ways around 3 - but the risk of not hitting it (or something like it) is that there will be complaints of the 'why are they getting something when we're not?' type. Against that, there's the risk that failing to do anything will lead to negative press: the current out of use fleets are an example - we can assume that the Daily Mail will have a field day when they decide to run stories on those.

So my suggestion would be to work out what is inevitably (or near inevitably) going to happen when GBR finally comes in - and then see what of that can be brought forward to (positively) happen now. On that basis, I'd suggest

- unused fleets: I'll accept that this is something I haven't been following so I may have got the wrong end of the stick here. But if there are fleets of modern trains sitting unused with TOCs or ROSCOs then get them lined up for use, ideally as fleets so that crew can work them consistently. If the trains are with the ROSCOs then someone will have to rent them - but if GBR will be the sole operator in future then the government is in a good position to insist on the ROSCOs offering a good price - there's also good politics in the new government being firm with greedy private ROSCOs. And crews will have to be trained: again, it might be good politics to show that if there will only be one operator in future, then the unions will not be in a position to play employers off against each other for double crewing (driver and guard) etc - it's perhaps worth noting that RMT is not affiliated to the Labour Party, although ASLEF and TSSA are.

- single TOC fares: as I understand it, in effect all the farebox from all TOCs (open access operators excepted) now goes to the DfT. So there's no benefit to TOC in gathering a bigger chunk of the fare-take on a given route. So let's abolish fares divided by TOC (e.g. 'Northern Rail only'). Commuters from Liverpool to Manchester (and similar routes) won't have to worry about whether they're on the right colour of train - more choice if train for very little more money. But let's keep Advances: to also abolish cheap fixed-train journeys would not go down well (Daily Mail: LABOUR PUT UP THE COST OF MY COMMUTE BY ALMOST 200%*) and (for sensible lengths of journeys) Advances can play a real role in moving traffic on to more lightly used services.


*Per BR Fares LPY-MCO (and vice versa - https://www.brfares.com/!fares?orig=MCO&dest=LPY), comparing cheapest Northern Advance x 2 against off-peak return - my actual commute (using the off-peak fare rather than the Advances)