Quiet coach etiquette

[mrsduffy]

Does anyone else feel strongly about the level of noise in the quiet coach in Virgin Pendalinos? Sometimes, but not always, staff will ask passengers not to use mobile phones but there's nothing about keeping conversation to a minimum. On my last two journeys from Euston to Glasgow some people talked non stop all the way. Then there's the issue of families with young children being booked into the quiet coach- that's never going to work. I've been in touch with Virgin asking what are the rules for the quiet coach but just got a generic reply
saying sorry I'd been inconvenienced. Curious to know is it just me? What do others think?

 

[Senex]

Does anyone else feel strongly about the level of noise in the quiet coach in Virgin Pendalinos? Sometimes, but not always, staff will ask passengers not to use mobile phones but there's nothing about keeping conversation to a minimum. On my last two journeys from Euston to Glasgow some people talked non stop all the way. Then there's the issue of families with young children being booked into the quiet coach- that's never going to work. I've been in touch with Virgin asking what are the rules for the quiet coach but just got a generic reply
saying sorry I'd been inconvenienced. Curious to know is it just me? What do others think?

If there are going to be quiet coaches (and I'm strongly in favour), then they should be genuinely quiet. Is there a need for some new by-laws?

 

[AM9]

If there are going to be quiet coaches (and I'm strongly in favour), then they should be genuinely quiet. Is there a need for some new by-laws?

I doubt that any rules could be written that would support any form of prosecution for those transgressing them. So nobody will bother to try.

 

[HowardGWR]

The notices on SWT give just a pictogram of telephones and earpieces. A large sign with finger to lips and 'Shhh please!' would help better. Another suggestion would be to charge a supplement but difficult when only going a short distance unless charged as a %.

 

[thenorthern]

The worst time for the quiet zone is in the school holidays.

Most of the time Coach A is quite good but many people think the rules don't apply to them.

 

[Searle]

The notices on SWT give just a pictogram of telephones and earpieces. A large sign with finger to lips and 'Shhh please!' would help better. Another suggestion would be to charge a supplement but difficult when only going a short distance unless charged as a %.

I don't think people not recognising the quiet coach is the problem, it's people ignoring it completely. A supplement would just turn it into a psuedo-first class carriage which is not really a solution.

 

[swt_passenger]

I don't think any TOC ever really intended normal speech to be banned in a quiet coach. The main purpose was to curtail noise from personal music players, and shouting into mobile phones - the latter being a well known means of overcoming signal drop off in tunnels etc etc...

You cannot expect people to stop having conversations.

 

[Zoidberg]

I don't think any TOC ever really intended normal speech to be banned in a quiet coach. The main purpose was to curtail noise from personal music players, and shouting into mobile phones - the latter being a well known means of overcoming signal drop off in tunnels etc etc...

You cannot expect people to stop having conversations.

I agree. It's meant to be "quiet" in respect of the non-use of electronic gizmos.

 

[Geezertronic]

The worst time for the quiet zone is in the school holidays.

Most of the time Coach A is quite good but many people think the rules don't apply to them.

I don't think most people can be blamed during the school holidays or busy periods. I travelled EUS-BHI during one school holiday in the quiet carriage and sat near a couple with a toddler and a baby. They said they had been allocated the reserved seats in the quiet carriage automatically so it wasn't their fault they ended up in the quiet carriage

 

[Graeme]

You cannot expect people to stop having conversations.

I once witnessed someone lean over the aisle on a EC service from Newcastle to London, and ask two middle-aged ladies to kindly stop their conversation as a) it was the quiet coach and b) they had been talking non-stop between Durham and Darlington.

I also recall being in the quiet coach returning from Doncaster to Newcastle on a Saturday afternoon EC service, and around a dozen middle-aged men (most if not all who had enjoyed a few shandies in York's numerous hostelries) got on and took up all of the separate unreserved seats. They then proceeded to have a very loud and rude conversation spanning four rows of seats. An Eastern European gentleman further down the coach quickly tired of this, stood up and politely pointed out that as it was the quiet coach, could they please consider other passengers or move seats? One of the group then proceeded to insult this chap, citing his lack of English nationality among other things - and this went on for quite a while.

 

[ComUtoR]

I agree. It's meant to be "quiet" in respect of the non-use of electronic gizmos.

What about a kindle ?

 

[Tetchytyke]

I doubt that any rules could be written that would support any form of prosecution for those transgressing them. So nobody will bother to try.

The Byelaws already make it an offence to "molest or wilfully interfere with the comfort or convenience of any person on the railway", punishable by a £1000 fine.

Mind you, they also make it an offence to gamble on railway premises, which must come as a shock to the number of people on the Ladbrokes app on their phone.

It is the quiet coach not the silent coach. Barking on mobile phones, the noise of computer games or music is not acceptable. Normal conversation, including conversation with a very young child, is acceptable.

The issue is, of course, is that reservations are automatically granted in the quiet coach, regardless of whether you want it or not. That was a big issue on XC, where 33% of the standard class accommodation was a quiet coach (and is why XC getting rid of the quiet coach was such a good idea).

 

[HowardGWR]

I don't think people not recognising the quiet coach is the problem, it's people ignoring it completely. A supplement would just turn it into a psuedo-first class carriage which is not really a solution.

Well, I'd pay extra.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I don't think any TOC ever really intended normal speech to be banned in a quiet coach. The main purpose was to curtail noise from personal music players, and shouting into mobile phones - the latter being a well known means of overcoming signal drop off in tunnels etc etc...

You cannot expect people to stop having conversations.

Yes you could, if they paid extra not to.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I agree. It's meant to be "quiet" in respect of the non-use of electronic gizmos.

No, it is meant to be 'quiet' as in no noise. One can have conversations without being at all noisy. Like in a library.

 

[bramling]

Does anyone else feel strongly about the level of noise in the quiet coach in Virgin Pendalinos? Sometimes, but not always, staff will ask passengers not to use mobile phones but there's nothing about keeping conversation to a minimum. On my last two journeys from Euston to Glasgow some people talked non stop all the way. Then there's the issue of families with young children being booked into the quiet coach- that's never going to work. I've been in touch with Virgin asking what are the rules for the quiet coach but just got a generic reply
saying sorry I'd been inconvenienced. Curious to know is it just me? What do others think?

It doesn't help that the signage is generally non-prominent and often minimal.

Large notices along the lines of "this is the quiet coach, if you want to make noise then use one of the other 10 coaches" would help.

 

[47271]

Someone complained about me to the guard in an East Coast quiet coach (I was booked in it whether I asked for it or not) a few years ago. I offended the elderly chap by leaving my seat twice between Newcastle and Edinburgh to make calls in the vestibule of the NEXT coach, and with the doors closed firmly behind me!

'Perhaps we need more quiet coaches sir' was her impressive response.

I don't think this is one that'll ever be resolved to the satisfaction of all.

 

[Zoidberg]

What about a kindle ?

Ah, I should have qualified. "Electronic gizmos which make a noise or cause one to make a noise".

Basically, a coach where interaction between the occupants is to be expected as in the days before such as personal music players and mobile phones.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

...

No, it is meant to be 'quiet' as in no noise. One can have conversations without being at all noisy. Like in a library.

There is no excuse for anyone being noisy in any coach. Noise in those terms, such as it causes a nuisance and interferes with the comfort of other passengers, is surely contrary to the bye laws.

 

[HowardGWR]

Someone complained about me to the guard in an East Coast quiet coach (I was booked in it whether I asked for it or not) a few years ago. I offended the elderly chap by leaving my seat twice between Newcastle and Edinburgh to make calls in the vestibule of the NEXT coach, and with the doors closed firmly behind me!

'Perhaps we need more quiet coaches sir' was her impressive response.

I don't think this is one that'll ever be resolved to the satisfaction of all.

That's interesting. Perhaps it was you who were called and he objected to that ringing? I suppose etiquette should demand that you switch the thing off, if so. Otherwise I don't understand what his complaint was.

 

[47271]

That's interesting. Perhaps it was you who were called and he objected to that ringing? I suppose etiquette should demand that you switch the thing off, if so. Otherwise I don't understand what his complaint was.

No, no, I got out of my seat to MAKE the calls! Never once did a make the tiniest beep or utter a single word (okay, I might have said 'thanks' quietly to the crew once or twice) in the carriage. I think that he actually objected to the IDEA of mobile phones on trains. [emoji38] (but really quietly mind)

 

[Doctor Fegg]

15-20 years ago I was on an XC service and overheard a grumpy old bugger who evidently knew nothing about mobile phones other than what he'd seen in adverts: "I object to all these people getting free calls with their phones. I think they should have to pay for their phone calls like I do"...

 

[Chris M]

One small thing that might help would be for the online booking system to change the quiet coach option from "yes" or "no preference" to "yes" or "no" and for reservations in the quiet carriage to be given only when the former is selected.

I usually travel in quiet carriages when I'm on my own, and often I use a laptop while doing so but always with everything on mute/silent, and I've never had an issue with that.
Generally, I think a rule of thumb should be that if you or your device is making a noise that can be heard further away than the diagonally opposite seat at a table of four then it is too loud.

The biggest annoyance though is the endless announcements. Hello and welcome, list of stations, next station, ticket validity ×3, next station, buffet/shop listing entire product range, etc. after every stop.

 

[DelW]

There is no excuse for anyone being noisy in any coach. Noise in those terms, such as it causes a nuisance and interferes with the comfort of other passengers, is surely contrary to the bye laws.

On ATW, I did once see a teenager moved out of a 'normal' coach to the vestibule, and off the train at the next station, for playing very loud, tinny and discordant music on his mobile phone (without headphones). When several nearby passengers asked him to use headphones or turn it down, his response was, "It's not the quiet coach so I'll play it as loud as it will go". Either by chance or after a request from the conductor, BTP boarded and removed the offender to relief all round.

In SWT quiet coaches, the small signs on the sides of the coach between the windows are not really prominent enough. In airline seats they should be on every seat back, though that wouldn't help in the facing bays.

 

[LowLevel]

I've had the BTP out to a group who refused to stop playing music on a radio to the whole train. I also confiscated the radio. Making the whole affair more complex and difficult to deal with was the fact the ringleader was a wheelchair user so I had to put the ramp down for the BTP to remove them from the train. I don't understand why it even enters into people's head that it's acceptable to inflict their personal entertainment systems on others - I'd not dream of it.

 

[Senex]

I don't think any TOC ever really intended normal speech to be banned in a quiet coach. The main purpose was to curtail noise from personal music players, and shouting into mobile phones - the latter being a well known means of overcoming signal drop off in tunnels etc etc...

You cannot expect people to stop having conversations.

Some years ago NS did indeed have quiet compartments where no conversation was expected. They were used mainly by businessmen, and they would make it very clear if you started your own conversation with a travelling companion in such a compartment that this was not the expected behaviour. It was a good system, and the compartments were well used.

 

[Retorus]

No, no, I got out of my seat to MAKE the calls! Never once did a make the tiniest beep or utter a single word (okay, I might have said 'thanks' quietly to the crew once or twice) in the carriage. I think that he actually objected to the IDEA of mobile phones on trains. [emoji38] (but really quietly mind)

Some people just have to have a moan about everything, it's in their DNA.

 

[AM9]

So if there is a belief that rules (on signage in the coach) could be created that would stand up to legal scrutiny, what would they include? Maybe some of these are difficult to deal with:
sniffs
sneezes
coughs
tutting *
talking at 'normal' levels (bear in mind that everybody has a different definition of 'normal')
turning pages, (broadsheet newspapers as well)
proper keyboards (clicking ones, not soft keyboards on windows)
struggling to get out of cramped seating, (grunts etc.)

By some of the posts here there seems to be an expectation that dead silence is the only criteria, despite the incessant interruptions of loud TM/Buffet/recorded stops and safety message (especially on Pendolinos). As trains get quieter in suspension and aerodynamic terms, some of those who do really have a problem with everyday noise will find themselves in more and more petty arguments and no written rules can cater for that so they might just as well get their ear defenders now.

* no doubt the tutters don't consider their noise irritating

 

[3141]

Install noise meters with prominent displays which will be in view of every passenger in a quiet coach. Better still where you have an electronic reservations system as in Pendolinos and Voyagers, program the display to flash with the precise location of the seat from which every sound which exceeds an acceptable level has come. Acceptability to be a nationally-agreed standard incorporated in the by-laws. When you buy a ticket you will be assumed to have accepted this as part of the terms and conditions. The details of every offending sound - volume plus the number of times it's occurred - will be available to the guard on some kind of hand-held device and downloaded to security staff at each major station so that BTP can be summoned to meet a train with a problem and easily identify the offenders.

Technically that's probably not difficult to do. But would it be worth doing?

 

[cf111]

Install noise meters with prominent displays which will be in view of every passenger in a quiet coach. Better still where you have an electronic reservations system as in Pendolinos and Voyagers, program the display to flash with the precise location of the seat from which every sound which exceeds an acceptable level has come. Acceptability to be a nationally-agreed standard incorporated in the by-laws. When you buy a ticket you will be assumed to have accepted this as part of the terms and conditions. The details of every offending sound - volume plus the number of times it's occurred - will be available to the guard on some kind of hand-held device and downloaded to security staff at each major station so that BTP can be summoned to meet a train with a problem and easily identify the offenders.

Technically that's probably not difficult to do. But would it be worth doing?

In a word, no. Ignoring the cost of procuring, installing and maintaining such a system there is still the issue of asking the already stretched BTP to eject someone from a train for what, let's be honest, is an annoyance at worst, when they could be doing something more important with the time.

 

[HowardGWR]

In a word, no. Ignoring the cost of procuring, installing and maintaining such a system there is still the issue of asking the already stretched BTP to eject someone from a train for what, let's be honest, is an annoyance at worst, when they could be doing something more important with the time.

I think 3141 was TIC (hope so ) .

 

[6Gman]

So if there is a belief that rules (on signage in the coach) could be created that would stand up to legal scrutiny, what would they include? Maybe some of these are difficult to deal with:
sniffs
sneezes
coughs
tutting *
talking at 'normal' levels (bear in mind that everybody has a different definition of 'normal')
turning pages, (broadsheet newspapers as well)
proper keyboards (clicking ones, not soft keyboards on windows)
struggling to get out of cramped seating, (grunts etc.)

By some of the posts here there seems to be an expectation that dead silence is the only criteria, despite the incessant interruptions of loud TM/Buffet/recorded stops and safety message (especially on Pendolinos). As trains get quieter in suspension and aerodynamic terms, some of those who do really have a problem with everyday noise will find themselves in more and more petty arguments and no written rules can cater for that so they might just as well get their ear defenders now.

* no doubt the tutters don't consider their noise irritating

And don't forget that the guard will have to use gestures for ticket checks.

How do you mime "that's your seat reservation; I need to see your ticket and railcard"?

 

[Bletchleyite]

If there are going to be quiet coaches (and I'm strongly in favour), then they should be genuinely quiet. Is there a need for some new by-laws?

If staff won't, unless prompted, tell people to pack in playing films etc out loud on tablets and the likes, the whole concept is doomed.

FWIW, on south WCML commuter services *all* coaches are de-facto quiet coaches