"Quiet coaches" : what constitutes unacceptable noise ?

[CC 72100]

As a bit of an audiophile, I despise cheap headphones - I want to hear music as the composer/band wrote it, not through some crappy, tinny earphones that strip out all the sound quality. I also hate having to listen to someone else's "music" second hand because of their cheap earphones.

As for other sources of noise, if you have a loud child of any age, you should not be in the quiet carriage. If you're going to hold a conversation louder than a murmur, you should not be in the quite carriage. I quite like that every time I've walked through the quiet carriage on the SWT services I've used, it's been pretty much silent. Then I walk through the doors at the other end to find someone yelling down their phone.

.

Another of my pet hates! I've also got some sennheiser headphones following a friends recomendation, much better than the dire apple phones that came with the phone in December 2010 and were broken by April '11.

With regards to phones, Quiet coach or not I always go to the vestibule if someone rings me during a journey. I may not want to share the ins and outs of my life with the rest of the carriage, and I'm sure they aren't that interested either! Always vestibule for me, unless it's a wedged XC voyager in which it doesn't make a difference as it's usually rammed full so you can't get there and everyones making noise anyway!

 

[jbb]

I find that the quiet coach on my virgin trains to be not bad. 90% of journeys it's reasonably quiet with no problems.

However, I find it makes me a LOT more sensitive to noise. When I sit in a normal coach, a quiet conversation hardly bothers me, I can just ignore it. But in the quiet coach it really gets to me. I dont know why...

 

[LE Greys]

Another of my pet hates! I've also got some sennheiser headphones following a friends recomendation, much better than the dire apple phones that came with the phone in December 2010 and were broken by April '11.

With regards to phones, Quiet coach or not I always go to the vestibule if someone rings me during a journey. I may not want to share the ins and outs of my life with the rest of the carriage, and I'm sure they aren't that interested either! Always vestibule for me, unless it's a wedged XC voyager in which it doesn't make a difference as it's usually rammed full so you can't get there and everyones making noise anyway!

The problem is there's so much extranious noise out there on MkIIIs/MkIVs that you can't hear what the person who called you is saying.

 

[rdwarr]

Somebody was asking if they were used by anybody bar the over 50s. I was going to say, "Yes, me", but then realised how old I was. Tempus fugit.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

The most obstrusive noise in a Cross Country quiet coach is the excessive and unnecessary announcements! By the time the Train Manager's gone through their patronising health and safety lecture then the trolley dolly's come on to list absolutely everything on her trolley, you've nearly reached your destination!

Perhaps a future upgrade might allow the train manager to switch off the speakers in the quiet coach? We're intelligent adults, we don't need to be told all theat cr*p.

 

[Justin Smith]

I find that the quiet coach on my virgin trains to be not bad. 90% of journeys it's reasonably quiet with no problems.

However, I find it makes me a LOT more sensitive to noise. When I sit in a normal coach, a quiet conversation hardly bothers me, I can just ignore it. But in the quiet coach it really gets to me. I dont know why...

I agree with you on that. I think it'll be my idealistic streak. I don't like it and, officially, they shouldn't be doing it ! Two reasons to get annoyed by it !

 

[LE Greys]

Somebody was asking if they were used by anybody bar the over 50s. I was going to say, "Yes, me", but then realised how old I was. Tempus fugit.

So was I, but then I'm 27 going on 80!

 

[Stephen55a1960]

Using a mobile phone in a quiet coach is unacceptable noise. Very pleased to see an XC guard on a PLY- EDB service make it clear to a passenger it was unacceptable. Passenger - well spoken middle aged woman taken aback!

 

[Chris M]

Perhaps a future upgrade might allow the train manager to switch off the speakers in the quiet coach? We're intelligent adults, we don't need to be told all theat cr*p.

Not just in the quiet coach either. We don't need more than the next station and whether the buffet is open or closed.

If it's really necessary to explain ticket restrictions, then do so in a single, short sentence. We don't need a lecture as it's already to late to do anything about it if we have the wrong ticket.

A full list of calling points isn't necessary - we should know before we get on whether it's the right train for us or not. This is particularly the case with local stoppers where the list of stations is to long to be of use to anyone. FGW HSTs at least always have it printed in the windows too, which is a good idea.

Buffet menus should be printed and available at-seat if there is a need to advertise. If you need a Braille or large print version of the safety card you need to get it from the buffet car so there shouldn't be any issues with not providing accessible menus at seat.

We really don't need to be treated to guards who love the sound of their own voice telling us that the fact that platform X now exists at Reading does not mean that we've been abducted by Harry Potter. Nor that you can change at Swindon to get to "lots of far away places with strange sounding names" after a list of most stations in South Wales.

If the train provides wifi, then it should be trivial to set up a page (free for everyone to access) that has the train's itinerary, the safety info, ticket validity and buffet menus, etc.

 

[calc7]

I am in total agreement with you, Chris M, but I don't think the British public is ready for such a cultural change.

 

[Bungle73]

If it's really necessary to explain ticket restrictions, then do so in a single, short sentence. We don't need a lecture as it's already to late to do anything about it if we have the wrong ticket.

I've always wondered they start announcing "X tickets are not valid on this train" when the it's too late to do anything about it if you're on the wrong train. At least with SE HS north Kent trains they announce that passengers with tickets marked "Non HS1" must leave the train way before it gets to the last station before the train actually gets onto HS1.

A full list of calling points isn't necessary - we should know before we get on whether it's the right train for us or not. This is particularly the case with local stoppers where the list of stations is to long to be of use to anyone. FGW HSTs at least always have it printed in the windows too, which is a good idea.

I disagree. It's reassurance that you are on the correct train, particular if there is no digital display, lets you know what stations come before yours so you know when the next stop is yours, and is very important if the train splits. Also I'm sure passengers with vision problems are glad of such announcements.

 

[jbb]

Sometimes they seem to be particularly good at making an announcement about the train and where it going 10 minutes after you get off, then 10 minutes later a catering announcement, then 10 minutes after that having a ticket check, and then announcing my destiantion station 5 minutes too early - thus making sure I can't possibly fall asleep

Usually it's not that bad though, just sometimes

 

[krisk]

You want bargain tickets and deals and e-tickets, mobile tickets etc then they have terms and conditions attached. Therefore a reminder of what those are need to be made. That way the response "Oh I didn't know" just won't work.

Regards quiet coaches I think they should be scrapped, causes more trouble than it is worth. I have had people asking me to tell people not to talk, to move their children, don't clear away the cups as it's making too much noise...

Quiet Coach. Not Silent Coach.

If we ask people not to use their phones we get evil glares or ignored, if we wait until they finish a call (could be important/personal) then remind them then we get glared at by the people that phone call is disturbing.

simple solution, scrap the QC

 

[Justin Smith]

You want bargain tickets and deals and e-tickets, mobile tickets etc then they have terms and conditions attached. Therefore a reminder of what those are need to be made. That way the response "Oh I didn't know" just won't work.

Regards quiet coaches I think they should be scrapped, causes more trouble than it is worth. I have had people asking me to tell people not to talk, to move their children, don't clear away the cups as it's making too much noise...

Quiet Coach. Not Silent Coach.

If we ask people not to use their phones we get evil glares or ignored, if we wait until they finish a call (could be important/personal) then remind them then we get glared at by the people that phone call is disturbing.

simple solution, scrap the QC

So where do those of us who hate other peoples noisy music go ? Use our cars instead ? Not only would that cost train companies money, but it`d make the roads even more crowded than they are already......

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

So where do those of us who hate other peoples noisy music go ? Use our cars instead ? Not only would that cost train companies money, but it'd make the roads even more crowded than they are already......

Oh come on, most carriages on longer trains (where most Quiet coaches are) are of a reasonable degree of peace. It is not the be all and end all whether we have a Quiet coach or not... If you don't like a simple conversation, then get some earplugs or the likes - it is meant to be a good experience to travel by train, not to sit in complete silence.

 

[cointreau_rove]

A few years ago I got on a hired in replacement train (class 47 dragging what seemed to be ex VT Mk IIIs but was talking on the phine when I sat down before the train pulled away.

Almost immediately I had a business type with 3 women in his company around a table storm over to inform me I was in the quiet coach.

As soon as I saw the sign I wound down my call and told him to wind his neck in.

I then had the pleasure of telling him and his group as we left Leicester to keep his own groups's noise down as they proceeded to have a business strategy meeting which got noisier and noisier. Ten minutes later the train manager came along and aked them to keep the noise down as a passenger at the other end of the carriage had complained to him.

I guess if the Train Manager is informed that there is nexcessive noise in the quiet coach then they will deal with it. On many occassions I have heard them tell people that they are in the quiet coach as they check tickets so I would imagine it is down to how busy they are. On my regular trips to London from Bath I do gravitate to Coach A - the standard class quiet coach. There is a general lower level of chat and perhaps because the usual coommuters occupy it it stays that way - suits me for a 90 minute snooze before Paddington though all bets are off after Reading!

C

 

[curly42]

Simple solution that works very well,I've found - if in the quiet coach,turn the phone to silent (or off) and don't use laptops/music players etc.
Don't make a noise and you can't be a problem !!

 

[gnolife]

Simple solution that works very well,I've found - if in the quiet coach,turn the phone to silent (or off) and don't use laptops/music players etc.
Don't make a noise and you can't be a problem !!

Not using laptops could be a problem though - the whole point of the quiet coach, in my opinion, is that you should be able to do any work that you might have to do in a peaceful environment.

 

[stut]

Not using laptops could be a problem though - the whole point of the quiet coach, in my opinion, is that you should be able to do any work that you might have to do in a peaceful environment.

I agree. Some people do, however, have to learn that modern keyboards do not require the typing force of mechanical typewriters...

 

[Justin Smith]

Oh come on, most carriages on longer trains (where most Quiet coaches are) are of a reasonable degree of peace. It is not the be all and end all whether we have a Quiet coach or not... If you don't like a simple conversation, then get some earplugs or the likes - it is meant to be a good experience to travel by train, not to sit in complete silence.

I don't mind the odd conversation, provided it doesn't go on and on and on because, unfortunately, humans naturally try to hear things even if you really really don't want to.... But the tinny overspill from load personal stereos is really annoying to me, and, I know for a fact, to many other people as well.
At the end of the day on a 7 car EM train they've got at least another 3 coaches to go and sit in to listen to their overloud PSs, so why don't they go and do it where people aren't going to be (quite) as annoyed ? Why do I have to listen to it ? Why is travelling by train a "good experience" for having to listen other people's noise ?
Wearing ear plugs doesn't block out all sound, I know I've tried it. My theory is that to a certain extent ones ears compensate by becoming more sensitive, like your eyes do in a dark room. But why should I have to wear uncomfortable ear plugs anyway ? The status quo is no music ( it's a train not a bleedin' night club ! ) it should be those making noise that turn it down.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I agree. Some people do, however, have to learn that modern keyboards do not require the typing force of mechanical typewriters...

Very good point. I once had a woman using a laptop opposite me and I couldn't believe how much noise she was making tapping away on her keyboard......

 

[calc7]

Very good point. I once had a woman using a laptop opposite me and I couldn't believe how much noise she was making tapping away on her keyboard......

I am sure many people do it for dramatic effect, indeed to look important.
"Oh look at all you great unwashed looking out of the window on your train journey whilst I put together a million pound business case." etc.

 

[asylumxl]

I am sure many people do it for dramatic effect, indeed to look important.
"Oh look at all you great unwashed looking out of the window on your train journey whilst I put together a million pound business case." etc.

Then once they alight they head to Starbucks for more of the same

 

[LE Greys]

I agree. Some people do, however, have to learn that modern keyboards do not require the typing force of mechanical typewriters...

I know what you mean, I learnt on a manual typewriter (and would still use it if I could replace the ribbon). As a result, my typing style is a bit strange.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Then once they alight they head to Starbucks for more of the same

It's the same with people who shout down their phones (sometimes in the quiet coach) about all sorts of high-powered business things, usually in the most impeneterable jargon they can think of. For revenge, I once pulled out my phone and pretended to set up a major drug deal.

 

[dvboy]

i havegiven up expecting a standard class quiet coach to be quiet.

 

[YorkshireRider]

You want bargain tickets and deals and e-tickets, mobile tickets etc then they have terms and conditions attached. Therefore a reminder of what those are need to be made. That way the response "Oh I didn't know" just won't work.

Regards quiet coaches I think they should be scrapped, causes more trouble than it is worth. I have had people asking me to tell people not to talk, to move their children, don't clear away the cups as it's making too much noise...

Quiet Coach. Not Silent Coach.

If we ask people not to use their phones we get evil glares or ignored, if we wait until they finish a call (could be important/personal) then remind them then we get glared at by the people that phone call is disturbing.

simple solution, scrap the QC

Agreed, if your too lily livered/spineless to ask the person to be quiet yourself dont go asking anyone else to do it for you.

 

[stut]

Agreed, if your too lily livered/spineless to ask the person to be quiet yourself dont go asking anyone else to do it for you.

I'm sure my grandmother would appreciate the sentiment.

 

[Grantham]

I can imagine that one of the unacceptable noises would be small flat spots on the wheels.

 

[Wolfie]

A few years ago I got on a hired in replacement train (class 47 dragging what seemed to be ex VT Mk IIIs but was talking on the phine when I sat down before the train pulled away.

Almost immediately I had a business type with 3 women in his company around a table storm over to inform me I was in the quiet coach.

As soon as I saw the sign I wound down my call and told him to wind his neck in.

I remember something similar in the early days of WMSR when they were operating unrefurbished Virgin Mk3 stock. An old lady came across and berated a guy for using his phone in the "quiet coach". A while later she complained to the Train Manager during a ticket inspection and was MOST upset when he told her that there was no such thing on WMSR, they were merely old signs, and even more so when he told the guy that he was welcome to use his phone.....

 

[Justin Smith]

I sent an E mail to the three train companies which I would normally use (EM trains, EC trains & XC trains) asking about their attitude to noise in the "Quiet coach" and in particular overspill from personal stereos.

This is answer from East Coast trains :

We intend the Quiet Coach, Coach B, to meet the needs of customers who want to work or relax quietly during their journey. Our aspiration for the Quiet Coach, based on the views we have gathered from customers, is that it should be ‘library quiet’, as to ban all noise would be impossible to enforce. This does mean that we ask people to use electronic equipment in silent mode, and mobile phone users to conduct conversations in the corridors at the end of each coach. In regards to personal stereos, they should be used quietly so other passengers should not really be able to hear any noise.
We do ask customers to be considerate to the needs of others, but unfortunately this is not always the case. We would normally expect our Customer Service Managers to deal with the individuals concerned once a complaint has been made to the staff by a customer, or if staff can see clearly hear excessive noise such as loudly singing, shouting etc. If such an incident happens again, I would advise you to contact a member of staff who will take appropriate action.

This is the reply from Cross Country Trains :

Although our train managers will ask a customer to keep the noise down in a Quiet Carriage there are no railway by laws to back up our policy. It all really relies on the courtesy of customers respecting the wishes of everyone else in the carriage.
It is sometimes possible to re-locate customers into another carriage, however the train manager can only request this of the passenger and in no way force them to move. The problem becomes even greater when there are large groups travelling together. It would be difficult to find alternative seating whereby they can all travel together. However I do appreciate that you personally booked the quiet carriage to enjoy a peaceful journey

As an aside, I thought there actually was some railway bye law about playing music on a train or station.

This is the reply from East Midland Trains :

The quiet coach should be a quiet coach. However, it is up to the Train Staff to manage the noise levels and if somebody does have head phones on and there is an over spill of music that is particularly noisy then our staff should ask them to turn the music down or ask them to move into a different coach.

 

[Justin Smith]

See above