Rail corrugation

[Philip]

For anyone who can remember rail journeys stretching back to the 1950s, which era/decade would you say it was most common to hear 'roaring rails', caused by corrugation on the surface of the rails?

Was the noise less noticeable when travelling in coaching stock compared with DMUs and EMUs (because an LHCS coach is lighter than an MU coach)?

Also why does some rail roar sound like a high pitched howl (like some stretches of the Metrolink and Northern and Victoria tube lines) whereas in other places it has a lower pitched sound a bit like a strong gust of wind blowing through the trees?

Finally, anymore examples of stretches of track people can remember for loud rail roar either in the past or still there now?

 

[Ken H]

For anyone who can remember rail journeys stretching back to the 1950s, which era/decade would you say it was most common to hear 'roaring rails', caused by corrugation on the surface of the rails?

Was the noise less noticeable when travelling in coaching stock compared with DMUs and EMUs (because an LHCS coach is lighter than an MU coach)?

Also why does some rail roar sound like a high pitched howl (like some stretches of the Metrolink and Northern and Victoria tube lines) whereas in other places it has a lower pitched sound a bit like a strong gust of wind blowing through the trees?

Finally, anymore examples of stretches of track people can remember for loud rail roar either in the past or still there now?

It was endemic across the network where CWR was installed. What caused the corrugation?

 

[D6130]

As far as I can recollect, the type of track most prone to roaring rails was 60 foot flat-bottom jointed rail secured to wooden sleepers with elastic spikes. Particular stretches affected included long stretches of the Settle-Carlisle and North Wales coast lines, The Glasgow & South Western main line between Gretna Junction and Annan and either side of Auldgirth, the Portsmouth Direct line between Bedhampton and Farlington Junction and some sections between Dundee and Arbroath. It seems that this type of track, when laid on either very soft (marshy) ground or very hard (rocky) ground, was particularly prone to this problem.

 

[Philip]

Some stretches of the Atherton line (before Crow Nest Junction and near Walkden) still have the 'wind through the trees' type of roar. Is the type of sound dependent on the speed the train is going (ie. higher speed making for a smoother higher pitched sound)?

 

[Welshman]

Your mention of the Atherton line reminds me that the section of the now lifted fast line through Irlams -O-Th-Height and over Brindle Heath flyover to Pendelton Broad Street used to be notorious for rail roar.
I remember as a child travelling on the ex L&Y lines from Liverpool Exchange/Southport to Manchester Victoria, and the noise was quite deafening as we swept down to Pendleton Broad St, and made even louder by the brick cutting in which Pendleton Broad St station was situated.

 

[Irascible]

We had a thread about this a few months ago - I think the full answer was it's resonance causing wear on the rail to be in a waveform, and the peaks of the wear getting work-hardened ( so there's your corrugations ). Solved by work on the trackbed. I can remember it into the 2000s especially via the B&H, haven't travelled so much since.

 

[edwin_m]

I seem to remember "roaring rails" as very noticeable on the WCML in the 1970s - maybe something to do with Class 86 damage?

 

[Philip]

Your mention of the Atherton line reminds me that the section of the now lifted fast line through Irlams -O-Th-Height and over Brindle Heath flyover to Pendelton Broad Street used to be notorious for rail roar.
I remember as a child travelling on the ex L&Y lines from Liverpool Exchange/Southport to Manchester Victoria, and the noise was quite deafening as we swept down to Pendleton Broad St, and made even louder by the brick cutting in which Pendleton Broad St station was situated.

Thanks! Do you remember any other loud bits of Atherton line (fast or slow) from back then? Also which direction was the loud bit you mention?

I seem to remember "roaring rails" as very noticeable on the WCML in the 1970s - maybe something to do with Class 86 damage?

Any locations on the WCML do you remember please?

 

[edwin_m]

Any locations on the WCML do you remember please?

Not particularly - I would have been about 10 at the time.

 

[D6130]

IIRC, long tunnels on secondary main lines were very prone to railhead corrugations, which made passing through them very noisy. I think this may have been something to do with resonance from the brick/stone invert vibrating through the ballast. Examples that I can think of are/were Blea Moor and Rise Hill tunnels on the S & C, Drumlanrig on the G&SW, Meir on the Derby-Stoke, Cowburn and Totley on the Hope Valley, Summit on the Calder Valley, Sough on the Bolton-Blackburn and several of the tunnels on the North Wales coast between Conwy and Bangor.

 

[Taunton]

There was a stretch on the Wirral electric between Hoylake and West Kirby in the 1970s-80s, which could be heard from the hilltop in West Kirby a mile away from the line. Very noisy inside the train. The people in the houses alongside that stretch must have got fed up with it. It seemed to go when cwr was installed. I remember a November 11th 2-minute silence in the ceremony at the town war memorial, which is on top of that hill; after about 30 seconds a train entered the section and shattered it all. And that was from away in the far distance.

 

[Welshman]

Thanks! Do you remember any other loud bits of Atherton line (fast or slow) from back then? Also which direction was the loud bit you mention?



Any locations on the WCML do you remember please?

Sorry, but I don't know about the slow lines as we only travelled over the fast, using the expresses from Halifax/Liverpool and Southport.
I don't remember any other places on that line, apart from the one I mentioned - the down line from Irlams to Pendleton Broad St. The roaring started just after the Brindle Heath flyover. The train was usually going quite fast [50 mph? - fast to a young boy!] and that, and the high brick walls near the line when approaching Pendleton BS station magnified the sound considerably, making normal conversation difficult.

 

[John Brannelly]

There was a section of “roaring rail” on the approach to St Helens Shaw Streer station from the Liverpool direction, about a quarter of a mile. Perhaps in the opposite direction too, but I can’t remember.

 

[Dr_Paul]

I mentioned on the previous thread on this topic the District/North London Lines between Richmond and Gunnersbury. The roaring -- and it was loud! -- started roughly at the Gasworks Bridge, where the line goes under the A316, and went up to the bridge over the Thames at Strand on the Green. The track has been relaid using welded rails, and sounds quite normal nowadays.

 

[Philip]

Sorry, but I don't know about the slow lines as we only travelled over the fast, using the expresses from Halifax/Liverpool and Southport.
I don't remember any other places on that line, apart from the one I mentioned - the down line from Irlams to Pendleton Broad St. The roaring started just after the Brindle Heath flyover. The train was usually going quite fast [50 mph? - fast to a young boy!] and that, and the high brick walls near the line when approaching Pendleton BS station magnified the sound considerably, making normal conversation difficult.

Was this during the era of 1st generation DMUs (101s)?

It seems like the roaring happened quite a lot during the time of the first generation units.

 

[d9009alycidon]

Thanks! Do you remember any other loud bits of Atherton line (fast or slow) from back then? Also which direction was the loud bit you mention?



Any locations on the WCML do you remember please?

I am sure I have an old Modern Railways somewhere which had a map of the WCML showig the stretches that were worst affected and the plan to takcle it, for some reason it stopped at Carlisle and the WCML north of Gretna was not prone to this.

 

[D6130]

I am sure I have an old Modern Railways somewhere which had a map of the WCML showig the stretches that were worst affected and the plan to takcle it, for some reason it stopped at Carlisle and the WCML north of Gretna was not prone to this.

Perhaps the pink granite ballast from Cloburn Quarry, near Carstairs, was/is better than the grey equivalent from Shap Quarry which was used South of the border?

 

[edwin_m]

Perhaps it was just a London Midland region map.

 

[nw1]

(Copied from a more recent but less relevant thread...)


I heard this a lot in the 80s and 90s. Sections where this sound was particularly prominent include just north of Haslemere northbound (close to Grayswood); Witley to Milford northbound; around Worplesdon northbound as the line crossed the heaths north of Guildford; and a short section between Warminster and Dilton Marsh at the point the line descends off the chalk onto the plain. Also just SE of Warminster too. It was generally in areas where there was jointed track.

Some of these sounds were almost musical - particularly the Witley to Milford section where the 'roaring' varied markedly in intensity and was accompanied in places by rhythmic jointed-track click-clacking. I've said this on the other thread, but what with this and the jointed track, someone could compose a symphony - the "Commuter Symphony" - out of the sounds and noises made by trains as they travelled northbound from Haslemere towards Guildford in the 1980s!