No different from any other ticket where they might similarly attempt to add via points to get away with removing permitted routes while making this change.Many outboundary travelcards are routed Any Permitted though....
No different from any other ticket where they might similarly attempt to add via points to get away with removing permitted routes while making this change.Many outboundary travelcards are routed Any Permitted though....
DORIS will tell you all the restrictions lolPrinting "See website" on the ticket will be useless to people like little old Doris who don't own a computer so can't look up ticket restrictions online. As much information should be printed as possible.
As for those who want to travel a reasonable but unpermitted route, if the ticket doesn't say no then who is to say so?
The text at the start of the table says this is a comparison with before February 2017.
- Manchester to Head Green 'route direct' becomes <blank> - these are adjacent stations, however the current tickets are in any case routed 'any permitted'
- Inverkeithing to Glenagles 'route direct'becomes 'via Kirkcaldy' - again, this is already routed 'via Kirkcaldy'. Note that: (a) there is no walk-up ticket routed via Haymarket, which may be the fastest route. (b) the obvious route of Inverkeithing - Dundee - Gleneagles is NOT permitted on a 'via Kirkcaldy' ticket, even though it goes, er, via Kirkcaldy. NRE offers today 16:57 via Perth arriving 18:28, 17:03 arr. 18:35 via haymarket 17:20 arr 19:25 via Haymarket (though they suggest changing at Edinburgh, for reasons that aren't obvious to me) 18:05 arr. 19:57 via Haymarket then 19:01 via Perth arr. 20:25. So there is a two hour gap in between trains for which they would sell you a ticket.
They can only do what they can do. They haven't sought extra powers for these changes.So basically where there is only one permitted route, they remove 'any permitted' and 'route direct', and where there is only one permitted terminal (rare I think?) they change to that one terminal.
And rather than say 'route direct' they say 'via x'. Which they can do anyway.
I'm not really sure it achieves much simplification though.
It was already blank if you bought a ticket from a Northern Parkeon machine, and has been since 2014. They suppressed route Any Permitted so that nothing appeared when the new design of tickets was introduced. This was the BR approach, too."Any Permitted" is pointless, it implies any route is permitted
Some outboundary Travelcards are routed nonsensical things which have no effect and are genuinely confusing, because they add a restriction within the Travelcard Zones (notwithstanding that this is probably not permitted under the Travelcard Agreement).Many outboundary travelcards are routed Any Permitted though....
Those seem like very poor examples - in both cases the specified route is the shortest and most direct to get within the zones. Surbiton and Upminster are both the boundary stations, so all the restriction is doing is preventing travel via Virginia Water and Grays respectively.Some outboundary Travelcards are routed nonsensical things which have no effect and are genuinely confusing, because they add a restriction within the Travelcard Zones (notwithstanding that this is probably not permitted under the Travelcard Agreement).
Examples include Zones 1-6 Travelcards from Weybridge routed 'via Surbiton' and tickets from Ockendon routed 'via Upminster'.
These are perfect examples of where genuine simplification could and should take place - these route restrictions should be abolished. They are oxymoronic and serve no purpose other than to create confusion, so you would think that as an exercise in simplification they would be a very easy win. And yet I do not see RDG doing anything on this account. I wonder why that might be?
It does not do that though. A route Surbiton ticket is quite valid via Virginia Water, so long as in theory you go via Surbiton later in the journey, which of course is covered by the Travelcard.all the restriction is doing is preventing travel via Virginia Water and Grays respectively.
I'm not sure it does. I'm not aware of any remaining route direct tickets."Direct" is a bit of a funny one. Logically it should probably mean "no changes allowed" but there are cases where it doesn't.
At least there are some valid journeys on those Travelcards. A much worse example is those routed VIA BARKING, e.g. this one from Southend: http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?orig=SOC&dest=0035&rte=112&tkt=ODTExamples include Zones 1-6 Travelcards from Weybridge routed 'via Surbiton' and tickets from Ockendon routed 'via Upminster'.
I'm not sure it does. I'm not aware of any remaining route direct tickets.
I believe that people who have attempted this in the past are still receiving regular counselling. It's a *lot* harder a problem than it initially appears to be.Or they could consider having a piece of software that would generate the full set of Permitted Routes for a given pair of stations (not the junk I think they do have that generates only what a journey planner will give you without putting something in the via box)
I've not got round to posting this example on here, with photos but back in May, towards the end, I wanted to purchase a single ticket from Guildford to Sandshurst. I had two options Any permitted and . [dot - to help those searching in future]. I don't know how many routes exist to Sandhurst as I didn't look it up. I just purchased the cheapest ticket. I was taking the direct train anyway.Any Permitted doesn't necessarily need replacing with anything - just leave it blank.
Anyone reckon they will try to put London Euston on WCML tickets, some of which can presently be used to Marylebone or St Pancras? This I think would also prevent excessing to the other route.
Have you managed to get a journey planner to provide an itinerary for that?It does not do that though. A route Surbiton ticket is quite valid via Virginia Water, so long as in theory you go via Surbiton later in the journey, which of course is covered by the Travelcard.
No, it means you're not allowed to go via the town where your mum lives!I see a the Edinburgh - Carstairs tickets has been changed from "Route Direct" to "NOT VIA MTHR". I assume MTHR is meant to be Motherwell but that printed on a ticket would be more confusing
Thats interesting. You didn't include the return fares in your list only day returns. As a dyslexic person, having the terms return and day return is confusing. You have to stop and think for longer than you otherwise would.For example, if you are buying a ticket Woking - Hampton, then you have a choice of:
£8.90 'not via Clapham J' anytime day single
£9.50 'Clapham J not Ldn' anytime day single
£10 'not via Clapham J' super off peak day return
£11.70 'Clapham J not Ldn' super off peak day return
£12.60 'not via Clapham J' off peak day return
£14.80 'Clapham J not Ldn' off peak day return
£15.20 'London not Und' anytime day single
£16 'London not Und' super off peak day return
£16 'not via Clapham J' anytime day return
£18.20 'Clapham J Not Ldn' anytime day return
£19.30 superoffpeak day travelcard
£20.40 'London Not Und' offpeak day return
£24.10 off-peak day travelcard
£28 'London not Und' anytime day return
£30.50 anytime day travelcard
Not to mention
Woking - BZ6
£6.80 anytime day single
£7.80 super offpeak day return
£9.90 offpeak day return
£12.10 anytime day return
plus t/c
£12.70 off-peak day
£18.10 anytime day
and other undocumented possibilities, such as split ticketing and Oyster and what not.
The choices are brutally consumer-hostile, as you might not even know which train you are going to catch when standing in front of the machine at Woking, let alone on your return journey hours later (oh, trains to Woking don't call at Clapham Junction for several hours during the peak? Nice.), and then if you buy the 'Clapham J Not Ldn' super off peak ticket you can't use it in the evening peak, but if you buy the 'Not Via Clapham J' ticket you can.
The proposal doesn't address this issue of decision paralysis at the ticket machine - such complexity can only be addressed with a smartcard system.
Thats interesting. You didn't include the return fares in your list only day returns. As a dyslexic person, having the terms return and day return is confusing. You have to stop and think for longer than you otherwise would.
I wonder if in 2018, 10 years on, they would take into account people with dyslexia, if doing a simplification of wording process?
There are no return tickets available between Woking and Hampton (London) with validity of more than one day. See http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=WOK&dest=HMP.You didn't include the return fares in your list only day returns.
My apologies. I saw 1R and missed the day in front of it.There are no return tickets available between Woking and Hampton (London) with validity of more than one day. See http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=WOK&dest=HMP.
Thats interesting. You didn't include the return fares in your list only day returns. As a dyslexic person, having the terms return and day return is confusing. You have to stop and think for longer than you otherwise would.
I wonder if in 2018, 10 years on, they would take into account people with dyslexia, if doing a simplification of wording process?
So what would a York to London ticket say regarding the terminus?It doesn't say they're going to limit existing X to London Terminals to a single London terminus. It says
It's already the case that a Maidenhead to London Terminals ticket can't get to any London terminus apart from Paddington, so what's the harm in making the ticket say so?
So what would a York to London ticket say regarding the terminus?
Kings X/St Pancras/Liverpool Street
Kings X/St Pancras/Liverpool Street