Rail employees discussing stuff on here

[Journeyman]

As a rail employee myself, I'm amazed at how much inside knowledge people give away on here, often it seems in contravention of their contracts. There's some threads recently that have given away quite a lot on safety and security matters that isn't in the public domain, and in the wrong hands could cause a lot of trouble.

Given that I know a couple of people who have been sacked for making fairly innocuous Facebook comments about their work, can I please ask that you think before giving too much away? I know there's a lot of genuine interest, I know most people think they can't be traced, and I know a lot of the discussion on here is great, but please think before you post. Is it really worth risking your job or causing an incident just to demonstrate your expertise?

I'm not sure it is.

 

[JB_B]

Have you ever actually seen something posted which shouldn't be in the public domain?

If so, did you alert the moderators to have it taken down?

 

[Journeyman]

Have you ever actually seen something posted which shouldn't be in the public domain?

If so, did you alert the moderators to have it taken down?

Yes, and yes. In fact, this post was prompted by a discussion I've had with one of them.

 

[yorkie]

What really amazes me is when you see people criticising their employer as well as having a dig at their customers, to give an example I have noticed several Northern staff in particular do this recently.

Breaching an employers social media policy is not necessarily a breach of forum rules but it is not something I would ever recommend.

 

[185]

Have you ever actually seen something posted which shouldn't be in the public domain?

Only last week an internal bulletin from one firm was plastered on a forum, following a huge amount of delay minutes needlessly being accrued and a method of work imposed which frankly didn't work. Aside from an employee taking a risk breaching confidentiality rules.... this, I strongly agree with - it illustrated the total shambles managing an Ops & Safety Standards department.

 

[Journeyman]

What really amazes me is when you see people criticising their employer as well as having a dig at their customers, for example some Northern staff in a particular thread.

Breaching an employers social media policy is not necessarily a breach of forum rules but it is not something I would ever recommend.

Absolutely. I've never identified my current employer, and I certainly don't intend to start doing so now.

 

[JB_B]

Yes, and yes. In fact, this post was prompted by a discussion I've had with one of them.

That's interesting, thanks. I've not seen anything that would concern me in the parts of the forums I visit.

 

[yorkie]

That's interesting, thanks. I've not seen anything that would concern me in the parts of the forums I visit.

My understanding is that the request in the opening post of this thread is more of a pre-emptive post than a reactionary one.

However I have heard people have lost their jobs due to things being posted elsewhere, including Facebook for example, though I am not aware of anyone who lost their jobs as a result of posts made on this forum, it could happen one day (if it hasn't already).

 

[Journeyman]

That's interesting, thanks. I've not seen anything that would concern me in the parts of the forums I visit.

Fair enough. I've not seen much, but there's been one or two things recently. It's a difficult balancing act, and I wouldn't want to silence any of the great discussions on here - this is a great tool to me as an enthusiast and a professional. I just think that giving away stuff that is clearly not for public consumption can have serious consequences, including some unintended ones.

 

[Tomnick]

I try to post on the basis that anyone can work out who I am if they want to (it’s not difficult) and ask myself whether my current employer (who I’ll never directly identify but it probably also isn’t hard to work out) would be upset with whatever I’m about to post! I don’t see a problem with deep and meaningful discussion about operating practices and principles following the contents of the Rule Book or Sectional Appendix (it’s all there for anyone to see), even straying into TOC-specific stuff if it’s for the purposes of explanation rather than something more controversial or confidential. There’s definitely a line behind that, and some maybe have been quite brave and strayed rather close to (or beyond) it. It’s an individual’s choice to make though - everyone knows what policies they’ve signed for...

 

[Journeyman]

I have heard people have lost their jobs due to things being posted elsewhere, including Facebook for example, though I am not aware of anyone who lost their jobs as a result of posts made on this forum, it could happen one day (if it hasn't already).

Facebook obviously doesn't have any anonymity attached to it, and I'm amazed at what gets said on some enthusiast forums on there, by people who state their full name and employer! Most people here are harder to track, but I've seen stuff said that would get you marched out the door fairly quickly if it could be attributed to you.

 

[rdeez]

Whatever industry they're in, when it comes to social media, some people seem to lose all common sense and think it's okay to post confidential information or air their grievances in public instead of through the proper channels (I say this not in reaction to anything I've seen here, but from my own experiences).

In one particularly amusing case, an employee who was given a stern reminder of social media policy by her manager subsequently complained that her privacy had been invaded by the person who reported her comment...a comment which was posted in a public Facebook group.

 

[Macwomble]

As a non rail employee, but a (died in the wool) enthusiast, I really appreciate the input from those who are obviously railway employees & have the insider knowledge.

Having said that I'd be the first to say that no-one should be posting something which might put their livlihood in jeopary. So please guys, whilst we appreciate your info, please also think of yourselves.

 

[mmh]

Only last week an internal bulletin from one firm was plastered on a forum, following a huge amount of delay minutes needlessly being accrued and a method of work imposed which frankly didn't work. Aside from an employee taking a risk breaching confidentiality rules.... this, I strongly agree with - it illustrated the total shambles managing an Ops & Safety Standards department.

Oh, TPE's dispatch procedure at York? Yes, terrorists will have found that very useful. Be sensible.

 

[HOOVER29]

It’s not rail related I know but where I used to work there were 3 chaps with around 60 yrs work experience between them at the company.
They all hit the town one night.
They all got very drunk.
They all posted remarks on Facebook about the company & how rubbish the management were thinking it was a right laugh.
They were all invited into the office on the Monday morning & all three were dismissed.
The place closed the following year so they all lost out on 20 odd years redundancy. I’d been there just 13 yrs yet walked out with a total including a handsome attendance bonus of not far off £30k.
So it doesn’t pay to advertise certain things about the company you work for no matter how juicy it appears to be.

 

[LowLevel]

People have always known my identity on here, just as a courtesy I'm not explicit with it. I try and self moderate to a degree though on topics close to my heart (DOO trains for one) I make no apologies that my feelings show through.

I'm generally happy with my employer so I have little reason to slag them off. Department for Transport and other bodies in terms of strategic management though - gloves are off. They've done a lot of damage to the railways over the last few years.

If you really want to see some employees interacting in public in an interesting way take a look at the National Express coaches Facebook page - some of the responses from coach drivers to the public under their own names on there would see any railway worker down the road and I'm surprised Nat Ex tolerate it.

 

[robbeech]

Which are the bits we feel are most important to hide? Does it stop at the bits that TOCs do that are against the rules but try to hide ? I think these are the things that are likely to provoke disciplinary action more so than anything else that people decide to share that otherwise wouldn’t be public knowledge.

 

[JN114]

Which are the bits we feel are most important to hide? Does it stop at the bits that TOCs do that are against the rules but try to hide ? I think these are the things that are likely to provoke disciplinary action more so than anything else that people decide to share that otherwise wouldn’t be public knowledge.

It will depend on the specifics of the employer in question’s social media policy.

They do rely on a modicum of common sense interpretation, but generally their mainstay is to avoid making statements publicly that could portray said employer poorly - a previous (non-railway) employer of mine had in my contract that making public statements that could bring my employer into disrepute would be considered gross misconduct.

I perhaps wouldn’t word it quite so conspiritarily, but public whistle-blowing would be foul of both my TOC’s social media and grievance policies; and would likely garner some serious unwanted attention from management.

 

[TheEdge]

My yardstick has always been "could I stand in front of my manager and justify what I posted"?

If a finished post passes it get posted, if not its deleted.

 

[michael74]

I would suggest that, the memo was clearly not for the public domain and most certainly the screen grab from the mobile phone isn't, it has opened the company up to ridicule and embarrassment in a public forum, if HR felt so inclined it could easily be used for evidence towards an interview without Tea and Biscuits. Public whistle blowing only works if you can prove that all other attempts to correct the situation internally, have failed.

 

[mpthomson]

Facebook obviously doesn't have any anonymity attached to it, and I'm amazed at what gets said on some enthusiast forums on there, by people who state their full name and employer! Most people here are harder to track, but I've seen stuff said that would get you marched out the door fairly quickly if it could be attributed to you.

Nothing on the internet is truly anonymous, even forums like this. If anyone said anything that broke the law on here as an example (not suggesting they would, just making a hypothetical point) then the forum could be forced to give up the details of who that person actually is.

It's a fairly extreme measure and other forums I'm on, not rail related, have given people's contact details before now, if required to do so.

 

[Eyersey468]

I don't work on the railways as a paid job although I volunteer at a preserved line, I try not to directly identify either of them although it could probably be worked out but I wouldn't post anything that I couldn't justify to my supervisor or management.

 

[GB]

Nothing on the internet is truly anonymous, even forums like this. If anyone said anything that broke the law on here as an example (not suggesting they would, just making a hypothetical point) then the forum could be forced to give up the details of who that person actually is.

It's a fairly extreme measure and other forums I'm on, not rail related, have given people's contact details before now, if required to do so.

The information you fill out when you join a forum isn’t necessarily true and correct. Quite easy to put false details in.

 

[Journeyman]

The information you fill out when you join a forum isn’t necessarily true and correct. Quite easy to put false details in.

Plenty of people have done that and still been traced. If someone really wants or needs to track you down, unless you're extremely careful and clever it's the work of a couple of minutes to work out who you are.

 

[LAX54]

I am quite easy to find at work, and on here, its not a secret ! I do post some stuff on here, but its' generally what is already known, and for the most part, at least rules related, anyone in the Country can see the Rule Book, the Sectional Appendix, the WTT, even the forms that everyone uses ! Then there is RTT and OTT where everyone can find out what train is where, and normally before the staff running it do !
We then have TWITTER from TOC's giving out info, and to a lesser extent FB.
There is maybe TOO MUCH info being given out freely by NR / TOC's etc !

 

[Intermodal]

Does anyone know if there is the same level of enthusiasm in Europe for finding out precisely how TOCs run their trains - specifically regarding procedures etc? Or in America?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Oh, TPE's dispatch procedure at York? Yes, terrorists will have found that very useful. Be sensible.

How on earth would a terrorist find a dispatch policy useful?

There are internal documents which they might (e.g. relating to CCTV, security measures, signalling etc) but not who blows a whistle and waves a bat (or not).

Worst they could do is waste time by stopping a train by throwing both hands in the air, but as I (as non-staff) have done this to prevent a safety incident (a potential DOO trap and drag where I hopefully helped to avoid the "drag" bit, though it's equally possible that staff saw it as well), as long as things don't get silly it's not exactly a harmful piece of knowledge.

I wouldn't post a document like that from my employer simply because I have agreed by way of my contract of employment (and by being reasonable) not to do things like that, but all the release of that document did was make First look a bit silly, which is something they are quite capable of doing by themselves anyway.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I would suggest that, the memo was clearly not for the public domain and most certainly the screen grab from the mobile phone isn't, it has opened the company up to ridicule and embarrassment in a public forum, if HR felt so inclined it could easily be used for evidence towards an interview without Tea and Biscuits. Public whistle blowing only works if you can prove that all other attempts to correct the situation internally, have failed.

This is very true - in many industries, wilfully bringing the company into disrepute is gross misconduct - and it's certainly true that that farce brought TPE somewhat into (mild) disrepute, though as I've said before FirstGroup seem quite capable of bringing themselves into disrepute without any such assistance. (And no, I don't work for them).

 

[Bletchleyite]

If you really want to see some employees interacting in public in an interesting way take a look at the National Express coaches Facebook page - some of the responses from coach drivers to the public under their own names on there would see any railway worker down the road and I'm surprised Nat Ex tolerate it.

I suspect the largely subcontracted nature of that operation may make it difficult to actually do anything about it.

 

[kilonewton]

It’s a balancing act to be sure. There are times I read forum posts written in an authoritative tone and I know that it’s ill informed drivel, but I don’t call it out as such as to do so would be breaching confidentiality that I’m contractually bound by, even with regards to former employers.
As stated above, would you be able to justify my post to a manager employment tribunal? If not, keep shtum.