Rail enthusiasts -- self-mockery / "labels"...

[Calthrop]

My attention was caught by a recent post in a thread on one of this site's sub-forums; where the poster referred to a likely difference in approach re a certain rail-related issue, between -- by implication -- "us" = railway enthusiasts, and "normals", i.e the not-particularly-railway-conscious population at large. Another poster "called him out", objecting to his use of "normal(s)" -- seeing it as proclaiming that anyone with an interest in railways is "special" (implications felt by me, of suggestion of worse stuff -- abnormal, weird, despicable, etc.): stating that this particular labelling is inappropriate on a forum specifically about railways and for their devotees.

It would not have occurred to me to feel offended over this matter; but conceivably, it perhaps should have done... My position about such things has long been: that our hobby / interest is one about which some who follow it do tend to get obsessive, and it's not one which appeals to and has the approval of the fashionable set; rather, the polar opposite. Folk as a whole, not afflicted by our bug, do tend to see railway enthusiasts as a bit goofily strange, and prone to harbouring our interest (in something which for most people is at best, a prosaic and not-enthralling part of life) to a wildly all-consuming extent; and -- IMO relatively mildly and with a fair degree of affection -- to poke fun at us. Many railway enthusiasts can see where the general populace is coming from, here; and -- in part to demonstrate good humour, and to show that they are not hurt by the far-from-terrible teasing barbs -- make a point of joining in the fun, and mocking themselves for their oddities.

Decades ago, I and my fellow-enthusiasts delighted in referring to travellers on passenger trains who were clearly ordinary folk needing to get from A to B, as "real people" -- implication: as opposed to weirdos like us who were using the trains to gratify our desire for our strange pleasure. I see the "railway enthusiasts / normals" dichotomy as essentially, "out of the same stable".

Would be interested in people's thoughts on these matters: where folk stand on the scale between -- as above -- "us / 'normals' is potentially insulting, and not appropriate on a venue such as this"; and "self-mockery on our part, is a healthy response to what is after all, usually only about the world at large finding us comical -- falling far short of their hating us".

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Almost every niche interest with a community behind it will have a similar thing going on. Be it rollercoaster enthusiasts who refer to non-enthusiast users as "General Population" often shortened to GP; or more toxic groups like Incels with their Chads & Staceys.

The historic example you give seems to me far more self-critical than the recent example you mention (I'm guessing the "Rush Hour Crush" thread). To me this is a healthy progression. Whether the nicknames given to "others" place them above or below the community itself probably says as much about that community's self-image as it does about how they view outsiders.

Sure, railway enthusiasm can be the butt of jokes both from within and from without, but I'd say it's far less of a PITA than it was say 25 years ago!

 

[Iskra]

I sometimes use the word ‘normais’ in my trip reports.

It’s not self-depreciating. Firstly, no-one is normal as we are all different. If you think someone is normal, you just don’t know them properly as everyone has their unique quirks.

I see it more like ‘those who understand railways’ Vs those that don’t.

Certainly not worth getting offended about.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I sometimes use the word ‘normais’ in my trip reports.

It’s not self-depreciating. Firstly, no-one is normal as we are all different. If you think someone is normal, you just don’t know them properly as everyone has their unique quirks.

I see it more like ‘those who understand railways’ Vs those that don’t.

Certainly not worth getting offended about.

I'm not!

(vague Python references aside, a good post)

 

[MrCub]

Rail enthusiasts being a bit 'away from mainstream' is simply a short and easy coding for the populous. For example, in 'Coronation Street', Roy Cropper is a rail enthusiast; to the audience he is 'a bit odd' and that works as a nice simple explanation forgetting that it is a crass generalisation.

I quite like being a bit 'away from mainstream'.

 

[Bromley boy]

My attention was caught by a recent post in a thread on one of this site's sub-forums; where the poster referred to a likely difference in approach re a certain rail-related issue, between -- by implication -- "us" = railway enthusiasts, and "normals", i.e the not-particularly-railway-conscious population at large. Another poster "called him out", objecting to his use of "normal(s)" -- seeing it as proclaiming that anyone with an interest in railways is "special" (implications felt by me, of suggestion of worse stuff -- abnormal, weird, despicable, etc.): stating that this particular labelling is inappropriate on a forum specifically about railways and for their devotees.

People are perhaps a little too quick to take offence.

I know a number of enthusiasts who happily refer to themselves as “cranks”, “chuffer nutters”, etc. (although never as spotters!).

 

[DarloRich]

"us" = railway enthusiasts, and "normals"

That will be me I suspect. I use it as away of differentiating between the people here and the people in the wider world. Responses of both of those communities to a railway issue will be very different. Sometimes those here could do with remembering that particularity when criticizing normals for their lack of super detailed technical knowledge.

Rail enthusiasts being a bit 'away from mainstream' is simply a short and easy coding for the populous. For example, in 'Coronation Street', Roy Cropper is a rail enthusiast; to the audience he is 'a bit odd' and that works as a nice simple explanation forgetting that it is a crass generalisation.

I quite like being a bit 'away from mainstream'.

Lots of spotters are a bit odd. Roy Cropper seems a fair example of them! OF COURSE not every spotter is odd.

Firstly, no-one is normal as we are all different. If you think someone is normal, you just don’t know them properly as everyone has their unique quirks.

I see it more like ‘those who understand railways’ Vs those that don’t.

Certainly not worth getting offended about.

Exactly. I would change your middle sentence slightly though: Those who understand ( or at least think they understand) railways in incredible & often obsessive detail v those who have a passing knowledge based on daily commuting and just want the basic facts to help their day go better.

And before anyone complains we, as men, ( and we are mostly men here) are generally obsessive in some way. We like to collect and catalouge and record and organise. You should see my football programme collection!

 

[Darandio]

That will be me I suspect.

I don't think you are guilty this time, I believe the post was this one https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/has-the-man-in-seat-61-had-his-day.165932/#post-3510098

Although the calling out and mini rant seem to have now disappeared.

 

[DarloRich]

I don't think you are guilty this time, I believe the post was this one https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/has-the-man-in-seat-61-had-his-day.165932/#post-3510098

Although the calling out and mini rant seem to have now disappeared.

Not guilty for once

 

[The_Train]

I will happily mock myself in many walks of life and certainly don't get offended by things other people have to say (I think this becomes easier as you get older and 'peer pressure' disappears).

The mocking of a hobby is simply a case of people not having an interest in a subject and therefore failing to see what others can possibly see in it.

 

[Lucan]

I have met a lot of people, and TBH each of them was odd in some way. I'm not a huge fan of humanity and thus believe I have a detached view of them.

I have, or have had, a number of hobbies, some of which are just as oddball as railway enthusiasm, for example racing model boats, writing poetry, and computer gaming. Believe me there can be just as much feeling of isolation from "normal people" in those circles, and even more mud-slinging between different branches of those (eg in computing between Windows, Mac and Linux fans - the insults would be censored on here). One can think of bird-watching, football supporting, and fishing as perceived similarly in the public eye. I don't regard any of those however as pathetic as those who anxiously follow a crowd and their latest fashions as arbitrarily defined by the crowd-leaders.

 

[433N]

I don't mind people mocking my interest in trains because, hand on heart I can say that I do not watch either Britain's Got Talent or Love Island which automatically makes about 15 million people more ridiculous than me.

 

[Busaholic]

.

And before anyone complains we, as men, ( and we are mostly men here) are generally obsessive in some way. We like to collect and catalouge and record and organise. You should see my football programme collection!

You should see my bus timetable collection! Actually, I'd like to see my bus timetable collection, mostly stored in boxes unopened in thirty years or more, and none of it catalogued, in an attic which I'm unable to access without almost certain death. Madness. really.and I'm realistic enough now to acknowledge it.

 

[The_Train]

I don't mind people mocking my interest in trains because, hand on heart I can say that I do not watch either Britain's Got Talent or Love Island which automatically makes about 15 million people more ridiculous than me.

I love BGT to go with my interest in trains. How weird does that make me?

 

[trash80]

I like to refer to non-enthusiasts as "civilians" for some reason.

I think having an interest that engages you is a really good thing, its people who don't seem to have any interest in anything apart from vegging in front of the telly that i feel sorry for.

 

[Calthrop]

I don't think you are guilty this time, I believe the post was this one https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/has-the-man-in-seat-61-had-his-day.165932/#post-3510098

Although the calling out and mini rant seem to have now disappeared.

Yes, that was the one. I didn't feel that the guy was being particularly ranty -- just registering his dislike of being classified under "as opposed to 'normal(s)' ". This struck me initially -- and basically still does -- as looking very hard for something to be offended by; then I wondered whether, just possibly, he had a valid point.


Bromley boy writes: "People are perhaps a little too quick to take offence. I know a number of enthusiasts who happily refer to themselves as "cranks", "chuffer nutters", etc. (although never as spotters !)"

Supporting evidence, I feel, for my perception of railway enthusiasts' quite often being self-mocking / self-deprecating: showing the general public that they understand their feelings toward railway enthusiasts and other goofy hobbyists (with on the general public's part, a good bit of affection admixed with the mild pity / contempt), and showing that they're not offended.


trash80 writes: "I like to refer to non-enthusiasts as 'civilians' for some reason".

I've known folk in the past, in the hobby, who also used "civilian" as the opposite of "railway enthusiast": both re people, individual or collective; and re anything "non-railway-enthusiasm-ish" in general. I've always liked this usage -- in part, because it can be seen as usefully two-edged. It can be seen the way it generally is -- making a neutral / polite / benign distinction -- or one can if one wishes, have in mind those cross-grained members of the armed forces, who consider that only people in their occupation, rate as properly human: all the rest are "civilians", betokening in these guys' minds, "utter rubbish": "civilian" is their most wounding term of invective .


Hobbies involving large-scale collecting, and what goes with same -- are for sure followed keenly by many men, and by vanishingly few women. I've heard an attempted explanation of this in "bargain-basement-psychology / anthropology" terms: to the effect that in primeval times, men were the wide-ranging hunters, whose success in same depended on detailed sharp-eyed-ness over a wide field; whereas women were the homemakers / child-raisers / fruit-and-veg-gatherers, who largely stayed put, and had more important things to attend to than spotting-and-spying stuff "all over the shop". Hence the male thing nowadays, of noting and spying particular items and being eager to home in on them and possess them. My personal feeling is that if this stuff says anything at all about "people through the ages"; it's that we've always had a strong tendency to dream up -- on meagre evidence -- convoluted, half-baked theories about how and why people are as they are.

 

[Condor7]

People are perhaps a little too quick to take offence.

I know a number of enthusiasts who happily refer to themselves as “cranks”, “chuffer nutters”, etc. (although never as spotters!).

I am a spotter as well as an enthusiast but always refer to myself as a trainspotter.

I love BGT to go with my interest in trains. How weird does that make me?

About as weird as me.

The mocking of a hobby is simply a case of people not having an interest in a subject and therefore failing to see what others can possibly see in it.

I think it is not so much that as a label we have that can’t be shaken. If you go onto the joke forum just yesterday a joke plays on the Scot’s being tight with money, others panda to similar stereotypes. It is just something we have to live with, although it is something that rarely bothers me.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

The 19thC UK term was "Railwayacs" ......pretty poor that.

I like the New York term of "foamers" for subway enthusiasts , followed by "Geese" for the normal passengers / riders !

 

[Calthrop]

The 19thC UK term was "Railwayacs" ......pretty poor that.

I like the New York term of "foamers" for subway enthusiasts , followed by "Geese" for the normal passengers / riders !

"Geese" = my old expression "real people": love it !

For whatever reason -- unlike with many hobbies / fields of study: there hasn't come about a fancy Latin-and/or-Greek term referring to rail enthusiasts, which has "stuck". "Ferrovialophile" (lover of the iron road) and "Ferroequinologist" (student of the iron horse) have been coined, but failed to catch on. Bryan Morgan writes, a bit snootily, "we leave all that sort of thing to the matchbox-collectors".

 

[ChiefPlanner]

"Geese" = my old expression "real people": love it !

For whatever reason -- unlike with many hobbies / fields of study: there hasn't come about a fancy Latin-and/or-Greek term referring to rail enthusiasts, which has "stuck". "Ferrovialophile" (lover of the iron road) and "Ferroequinologist" (student of the iron horse) have been coined, but failed to catch on. Bryan Morgan writes, a bit snootily, "we leave all that sort of thing to the matchbox-collectors".

The Latin terms would clearly suit the likes of Mr Rees-Mogg ....

 

[Harbornite]

It’s irrelevant in the big scheme of things, I like using ‘normie’ and ‘anorak’ to describe non-enthusiasts and enthusiasts. Besides, it’s no surprise that enthusiasts have such a reputation when you see some of the creatures that congregate at platform ends and droplights. For them, anorak is actually quite flattering.

 

[Harbornite]

I sometimes use the word ‘normais’ in my trip reports.

It’s not self-depreciating. Firstly, no-one is normal as we are all different. If you think someone is normal, you just don’t know them properly as everyone has their unique quirks.

I see it more like ‘those who understand railways’ Vs those that don’t.

Certainly not worth getting offended about.

Indeed.

 

[jon0844]

I love BGT to go with my interest in trains. How weird does that make me?

Britain's Got Trains?

 

[GusB]

For whatever reason -- unlike with many hobbies / fields of study: there hasn't come about a fancy Latin-and/or-Greek term referring to rail enthusiasts, which has "stuck". "Ferrovialophile" (lover of the iron road) and "Ferroequinologist" (student of the iron horse) have been coined, but failed to catch on. Bryan Morgan writes, a bit snootily, "we leave all that sort of thing to the matchbox-collectors".

I do quite like "Ferroequinologist", although I would would live in fear of being mistaken for being "horsey" person We have terms like "philatelist" and "numismatist" for those who collect stamps and coins, so I reckon that a "posh" term for rail enthusiasts wouldn't be such a bad thing. How about "ferrovianumerologist" for spotters?

Perhaps I should avail myself of the services of an outer-garment retrieval specialist...

 

[Calthrop]

The Latin terms would clearly suit the likes of Mr Rees-Mogg ....

I understand that he's a historic-motor-road-vehicles fan, rather than "one of our sort"; but, yes, the classical-lingo part would be right up his street.

Going rather off-topic on Rees-Mogg theme; was rather taken with an anecdote which I once heard about Jacob R-M's dad William. It seems that when the family were travelling by train, in the later 20th century; when the train went into a tunnel, W. R-M. would invariably leap up and hasten to shut the small high-up sliding windows. His wife equally invariably said, "It's all right, William, you don't have to do that -- they stopped using steam engines years ago"; but that bit of information just never registered with him.

I suppose I find this tale endearing in a way -- even a fierce media demagogue holding numerous very strong opinions, and totally convinced of his utter rightness and righteousness, can be clueless about certain things...