Rail fares which are poor value compared to bus

[TUC]

The argument for preferring rail over bus is usually that itis quicker, and in some cases more comfortable that the bus, even if the fares are higher. Which are the journeys for which, even taking speed into account, the rail fare is poor value?

The one which comes to mind for me is Middlesbrough-Newcastle. Even if one goes for the cheaper 'via Hartlepool' ticket, the cheapest Anytime Day Return is £13.90. Compare that to £8.50 on Go North East's bus service, which also includes travel on all other Go North East services for the day.

with regard to travel time, the rail service via Hartlepool is around 1 hr 25 mins compared to the same journey time on thr bus. It's difficult to see why rail doesn't make a better effort to be competitive.

What other examples are there?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Intra-MK single fares are considerably higher than bus fares (e.g. Wolverton-MKC £3.20 train, £2.50 bus), but as is typical for the railway the return is only pennies more (£3.80 in this case) so the train is cheaper.

 

[Ianno87]

Through fares on the 905/X5 Cambridge-Bedford-Oxford are much cheaper than a rail fare via London.

 

[DB]

Places where the rail route is much longer than the bus route. Skipton-Colne would be a very extreme example,but it also applies to Skipton-Ilkley.

 

[Jurg]

Anything on the Coventry to Nuneaton corridor. The 20 bus Coventry to Nuneaton is £2.20 single or £4 for a day ticket. Rail fares vary from £5.70 off peak single to £6.90 peak return.

 

[route101]

I guess Peak fares for example between Glasgow and Edinburgh, £10 return on bus vs £25 on train.

 

[toffeedanish]

The Buxton line would be a good example for you. From Whaley Bridge to Buxton is £3.60 single on the bus compared with £6.10 on the train. Usually 18 minutes by both train and by the 61 bus (the bus goes over the hill, the train around it). Also the bus drops off in the middle of Buxton not on the edge.

Bus fare tables are available on High Peak's website listed under the individual routes. The 199 bus fares from the same area to Manchester Airport compare *very* favourably with rail, though perhaps this is more understandable.

 

[Cdd89]

Oxford to London. With the Chiltern competition advance fares are very competitive so this no longer applies, and the X90 cited the increased rail competition as a reason for their withdrawal, but the base return fare paid by many on the day without railcard is £38. The Oxford Tube takes not much longer* and costs £15 return.

(*As long as it doesn’t break down on the M40 in a terrifying fashion, as happened to me a few weeks ago, and 3 times in 15 years!).

 

[Qwerty133]

Narborough-Rugby. The train takes just under an hour in one direction and over an hour in the other direction (either changing once at Nuneaton or at both Nuneaton and Coventry) and costs £16.70 return off peak. The bus is direct and takes approximately an hour and a quarter and costs £4.40 return (although the last bus is very early and there are none on Sundays).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Oxford to London. With the Chiltern competition advance fares are very competitive so this no longer applies, and the X90 cited the increased rail competition as a reason for their withdrawal, but the base return fare paid by many on the day without railcard is £38. The Oxford Tube takes not much longer* and costs £15 return.

(*As long as it doesn’t break down on the M40 in a terrifying fashion, as happened to me a few weeks ago, and 3 times in 15 years!).

Off Peak Day Return is £28.20, I thought that seemed high!

 

[miami]

Bus fares around here are state secrets, you can only find out by boarding the bus and buying a ticket.

Fortunatly there's only one bus, so not like where I used to live when the fare varied from £1.50 to £4 for the 2 mile route depending on the colour of the bus which turned up.

 

[IslandDweller]

Helensburgh to Arrochar. £6.90 by train, £3.05 by bus. Same journey time. But the train offers 7 trains per weekday (normal, non-Covid timetable), whereas there are only three buses per weekday (and no Sunday buses)

 

[TUC]

Off Peak Day Return is £28.20, I thought that seemed high!

Still a lot more than the bus!

 

[A93]

Reading to High Wycombe, £4.70 for a High Wycombe Plus ticket which gives unlimited bus travel between Reading and High Wycombe for a day. The bus takes about 1h30mins. By train changing at Oxford it's £27.30 for an off-peak single and takes about 1h15mins, via London it's £29.40 for an off-peak single and takes about 1h30mins.

 

[TUC]

What is striking about a number of these examples is that they are middle distance inter-urban journeys. Ones that involves travelling to a town siome distance away, but in the same region. Why does rail seem to fare particularly poorly for that kind of journey?

 

[Haywain]

What is striking about a number of these examples is that they are middle distance inter-urban journeys. Ones that involves travelling to a town siome distance away, but in the same region. Why does rail seem to fare particularly poorly for that kind of journey?

Because in many of these cases there isn’t a direct rail link.

 

[RT4038]

Because in many of these cases there isn’t a direct rail link.

Bus fares also tend to plateau beyond a (approx.) 60 minute journey, as fewer people are prepared to spend more than that length of time riding in a bus on a regular basis. (even if the train takes a similar amount of time)

Journeys like Narborough to Rugby would not be a priority in competition - how many people would make that journey even if the transport (rail or bus) was free? Very few.

 

[yorkie]

Just a gentle reminder that if anyone wishes to post suggestions/ideas/speculation, please use the Speculative Ideas section, thanks

I have moved the Leamside suggestion into that section.

 

[TUC]

Bus fares also tend to plateau beyond a (approx.) 60 minute journey, as fewer people are prepared to spend more than that length of time riding in a bus on a regular basis. (even if the train takes a similar amount of time)

Journeys like Narborough to Rugby would not be a priority in competition - how many people would make that journey even if the transport (rail or bus) was free? Very few.

I think that depends upon the quality of the vehicles used for the bus service. In the case of Go North East's X9/X10 Middlesbrough-Newcastle service relatively high spec vehicles have been used and that has paid off in the loadings, despite the journey being 1hr 25 mins.

 

[notadriver]

Oxford to London. With the Chiltern competition advance fares are very competitive so this no longer applies, and the X90 cited the increased rail competition as a reason for their withdrawal, but the base return fare paid by many on the day without railcard is £38. The Oxford Tube takes not much longer* and costs £15 return.

(*As long as it doesn’t break down on the M40 in a terrifying fashion, as happened to me a few weeks ago, and 3 times in 15 years!).

Why doesn’t the coach have the dominant share of oxford to London passengers compared with the train ?

The argument for preferring rail over bus is usually that itis quicker, and in some cases more comfortable that the bus, even if the fares are higher. Which are the journeys for which, even taking speed into account, the rail fare is poor value?

The one which comes to mind for me is Middlesbrough-Newcastle. Even if one goes for the cheaper 'via Hartlepool' ticket, the cheapest Anytime Day Return is £13.90. Compare that to £8.50 on Go North East's bus service, which also includes travel on all other Go North East services for the day.

with regard to travel time, the rail service via Hartlepool is around 1 hr 25 mins compared to the same journey time on thr bus. It's difficult to see why rail doesn't make a better effort to be competitive.

What other examples are there?

Going via Darlington sees the journey time reduce to just over the hour.

 

[TUC]

Going via Darlington sees the journey time reduce to just over the hour.

It does, but at the cost of a higher
fare than the direct service. Plus that having to change will make the journey less attractive than a through journey on the bus.

 

[notadriver]

It does, but at the cost of a higher
fare than the direct service. Plus that having to change will make the journey less attractive than a through journey on the bus.

Interestingly there doesn’t seem to be an equivalent bus service heading south ie - Middlesbrough to York ?

 

[greyman42]

Barnsley to Leeds is £6 single or £7 return.

 

[lightning76]

Surprised Swindon to Oxford hasn't been mentioned. A popular journey, the bus runs every 20 mins (normally) and costs £7.50 return. The train journey requires a change at Didcot. An anytime day return is £49.60.

 

[Watershed]

Surprised Swindon to Oxford hasn't been mentioned. A popular journey, the bus runs every 20 mins (normally) and costs £7.50 return. The train journey requires a change at Didcot. An anytime day return is £49.60.

However, an Off-Peak Day Return costs less than a quarter of that, at £12.20, and is valid from 9am with no evening restrictions. Still quite a bit more than the bus (and less convenient), but the disparity isn't always as massive as your post might suggest. And the journey time by rail can be as little as 33 minutes with optimal connections, vs a minimum of 80 mnutes on the bus.

Incidentally, that sort of flow has to be pretty high up there in the rankings of peak to off-peak fare ratios? Even the infamous Manchester to London Anytime fare isn't quite quadruple the Off-Peak fare.

 

[TUC]

Interestingly there doesn’t seem to be an equivalent bus service heading south ie - Middlesbrough to York ?

I think that is because in terms of both work and shopping trip flows Teesside-Newcastle is much more common than Teesside-York.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Hull to Beverley was cheaper on the bus in February and the bus was comfortable with some bays of seats around tables.

 

[Western Sunset]

Oxford - Swindon £8.05 off-peak return with Railcard.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

Holyhead to Chester £36.00 off peak return by train. £5.50 by bus

 

[Llandudno]

Holyhead to Chester £36.00 off peak return by train. £5.50 by bus

I think the Arriva Day Rover ticket is now £6, but even so it would be quite an endurance test undertaking a day return by Arriva Buses from Holyhead to Chester, I suspect by the time you got to Chester you would more or less have to start return journey!

You would have to change buses four times in each direction, and with Arriva Buses Wales complex timetables, difficult to navigate website and reliability issues, I wouldn’t risk it!