• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Rail-ferry connections - present and future

Status
Not open for further replies.

37201xoIM

Member
Joined
29 Apr 2016
Messages
334
To be fair, if the ferry is on time there are quicker options to Ipswich and beyond - albeit potentially less convenient, I accept.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

ashkeba

Established Member
Joined
13 May 2019
Messages
2,171
To be fair, if the ferry is on time there are quicker options to Ipswich and beyond - albeit potentially less convenient, I accept.
Do you mean departing 0657 and changing Manningtree, Ipswich and Ely to arrive Cambridge a whole 6 minutes eariler than the direct service would? Also not possible today with Ipswich-Ely-Peterborough cancelledwhich has happened lots recently.
 

37201xoIM

Member
Joined
29 Apr 2016
Messages
334
To be fair I've been travelling towards Peterborough (to get back to Civilisation......), so my comment might not be valid for Cambridge. In any case, clearly as you say, they shouldn't be cancelling any of these!
 

jamesontheroad

Established Member
Joined
24 Jan 2009
Messages
2,029
This allows other units to step up at Ipswich and is the least damaging of options, both in terms of cancellations and the number of passengers affected.

Maybe it affects fewer passengers, but those passengers are more likely than local commuters to be carrying suitcases, bags, animals (lots of dog owners use the ferry and it’s kennel). Changing at Manningtree (two staircases or elevators) and Ipswich is easy if you’re a commuter, but it’s a royal pain in the proverbial if you’re an international traveller.
 

30907

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Sep 2012
Messages
17,803
Location
Airedale
Maybe it affects fewer passengers, but those passengers are more likely than local commuters to be carrying suitcases, bags, animals (lots of dog owners use the ferry and it’s kennel). Changing at Manningtree (two staircases or elevators) and Ipswich is easy if you’re a commuter, but it’s a royal pain in the proverbial if you’re an international traveller.

I would have thought that most international travellers would be used to using lifts en route - it's hardly possible to avoid them, indeed unless the current ferries have been rebuilt since I last used them you can't board or leave without lift or stairs.
 

jamesontheroad

Established Member
Joined
24 Jan 2009
Messages
2,029
I would have thought that most international travellers would be used to using lifts en route - it's hardly possible to avoid them, indeed unless the current ferries have been rebuilt since I last used them you can't board or leave without lift or stairs.

Well, there’s a big difference there: lifts or stairs - when traveling with serious luggage?

I now use the Stena Hollandica/Britannica a couple of times a year as a (very) long-distance rail and sail passenger. Both Hoek van Holland and Harwich terminals are now step-free from the RET metro to the boat and from the boat to the train in Harwich. Although the gangways are very long, especially at Hoek, you can wheel a suitcase the whole way.

On our last trip to England, just before Christmas, having found the Cambridge train cancelled we took another to Manningtree and faced the choice of a 1-minute or a 31-minute connection to Ipswich. Some Cambridge passengers tried to make the 1-minute connection by running down the stairs and across to the far platform for a Norwich train, which isn't advisable via the stairs or the lifts. (We were very content to go and have breakfast in the charming little café on the up platform... the cooked breakfast is highly recommended!).

I have complained to GA, by the way, but their customer relations seem to be in such lockdown they ignored my message for three days, and when prompted simply directed me to the complaints form online. It appears to be an operational decision never to run this timetabled service. The impact of this decision is big but completely invisible - foreign passengers are unlikely to complain, most people can make it to their end destination with extra changes, and with paper tickets issued by Stena the delay repay liability is virtually nill. But the unmeasurable inconvenience to dozens of passengers every day is huge. It's particularly crap that a Dutch-owned company is screwing up at the one station that arguably sees the most Dutch passengers!
 

30907

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Sep 2012
Messages
17,803
Location
Airedale
Well, there’s a big difference there: lifts or stairs - when traveling with serious luggage?
There was a choice on board: lift or stairs. For disembarkation at Hoek most used the stairs. It's good if that has changed.

The terminal buildings have been step free for some time.
 

Flying Snail

Established Member
Joined
12 Dec 2006
Messages
1,624
Well, there’s a big difference there: lifts or stairs - when traveling with serious luggage?

Do they not offer luggage check-in for foot passengers at the terminals in Hoek and Harwich? It is standard practice on all the Irish sea Stena routes.
 

superjohn

Member
Joined
11 Mar 2011
Messages
531
Do they not offer luggage check-in for foot passengers at the terminals in Hoek and Harwich? It is standard practice on all the Irish sea Stena routes.
There are conveyor belts at both ends but I can’t say I have ever seen them used in more than twenty years of travelling the route.

I suspect most people opt to carry their cases on board the ferries having already made it all the way to check in. Of course they may not realise the extreme length of the gangways at that stage!
 

jamesontheroad

Established Member
Joined
24 Jan 2009
Messages
2,029
There are conveyor belts at both ends but I can’t say I have ever seen them used in more than twenty years of travelling the route.

I suspect most people opt to carry their cases on board the ferries having already made it all the way to check in. Of course they may not realise the extreme length of the gangways at that stage!

This is the view from ground level, immediately after passing emigration and customs at Hoek. It continues out of sight for a total of about 500 metres. You can see it here.

At Hoek the gangway is connected at least one floor below the main deck, and two decks below the one with the largest number of cabins. At Harwich you can exit from the main deck.

1BRehRh5QbSRNwbQl7Vxzw.jpg
 

Flying Snail

Established Member
Joined
12 Dec 2006
Messages
1,624
The old HSS dock is right beside the terminal so I assume they built that long walkway when they switched back to the conventional ferries.

I am surprised they went to the expense, in Holyhead and Dublin they just use buses from the terminal to the ship. No long walk is a plus but it can be quite crowded on the bus, especially if there are pushchairs and the biggest downside is you board last so all the best seas are taken and you have to wait until the truck deck is mostly cleared before the bus can be brought on so there is a 10-20min wait for exiting.
 

ashkeba

Established Member
Joined
13 May 2019
Messages
2,171
I am surprised they went to the expense, in Holyhead and Dublin they just use buses from the terminal to the ship. No long walk is a plus but it can be quite crowded on the bus, especially if there are pushchairs and the biggest downside is you board last so all the best seas are taken and you have to wait until the truck deck is mostly cleared before the bus can be brought on so there is a 10-20min wait for exiting.
I think a long walk from the terminal to the ship is preferable to the long walk down the stairs or the long queue for a lift and then being on a claustrophobic old bus. I also guess the peak times of boarding some ferries would mean the buses would be a fairly expensive hire or purchase and sit idle most of the day. I do not see many benefits of buses for ferry operator or passenger as long as the port owner is willing to provide a walkway.
 

Flying Snail

Established Member
Joined
12 Dec 2006
Messages
1,624
I think a long walk from the terminal to the ship is preferable to the long walk down the stairs or the long queue for a lift and then being on a claustrophobic old bus. I also guess the peak times of boarding some ferries would mean the buses would be a fairly expensive hire or purchase and sit idle most of the day. I do not see many benefits of buses for ferry operator or passenger as long as the port owner is willing to provide a walkway.

I agree, mainly for the speed though, having to wait on arrival is a right pain especially when a prompt exit would catch an earlier train connection. The ship crew are usually well into their cleaning by the time you get called to the car deck to board the bus. They used to leave the bus on the ship for the crossing which was better as you would be put on as soon as check-in closed and driven off fairly quickly but I guess taking up the space on board was an issue. Holyhead is much too far for a walkway, the HSS docked beside the terminal but the large ferries are to big and have berths about 2km away.

There are lounges after check-in so you just wait there until the docker is ready to drive the bus onto the ship.

The buses don't do much mileage but both operators have 4 sailings each way per day so they are well enough used. It is also fair to say they aren't exactly the newest buses around, it's not that long since Holyhead port had a Leyland National in use. The buses used for this stay within the secure private port area so aren't tax (and possibly test) liable either.
 

superjohn

Member
Joined
11 Mar 2011
Messages
531
At Hoek the gangway is connected at least one floor below the main deck, and two decks below the one with the largest number of cabins. At Harwich you can exit from the main deck.
The current ships both connect to the foot gangway on deck 7, on one side for Harwich and the other for Hoek. The main passenger facilities are on deck 9 and cabins on 10&11. Footies need to take the stairs or lift at both ports. You can see the deck plans here (the ships are identical):
https://www.stenaline.co.uk/-/media...a_stena_britannica_deckplan_2019.pdf?la=en-GB

The previous pair of ships had different layouts and boarded at different levels. The current Harwich gangway was rebuilt to suit the new ships. The first part was always there but the new glass bridge was added. As you walk along the gangway you can see the closed off left turn which was used to board the ferry to Denmark when it still ran. If you know where it was you can also see the old right turn to board the HSS, immediately after the departure lounge.

The Harwich gangway breaks down with depressing frequency and this leads to a bus substitution. Usually two vehicles and two drivers hired from a local firm. It must be very expensive for what amounts to a couple of hours use per day.

The Hoek gangway is much older and was used for the old ships as well. I don’t think it was built at that length originally though. Halfway along you can see a series of doors facing out to the ship where it looks as though the gangway originally was. The second half after that is slightly different, noticeably not having travelators, and looks to be a later addition but it has been there as long as I can remember.

P&O at Dover use buses for foot passengers but traffic is light. The foot passenger check in desk doubles up as a crew signing on point. I suspect the existence of that desk and the need to bus the crew to the ships is the only reason the foot passenger services are still provided.
 
Last edited:

AlbertBeale

Established Member
Joined
16 Jun 2019
Messages
2,676
Location
London
Glad you didn't have the oppressive music; yes, I will give them some feedback, since it really spoiled what was otherwise a good experience.

I guess the mile was hyperbole - but it must have been the longest "inside connection" walk I can remember in such a context; I'm sure I've had worse at an airport somewhere, years ago, but this did feel really over-long. It might have been partly because of the comparison with the short connection at the Harwich end, and what that led me to expect, and it might have been affected by my non-breakfasted grumpiness!

A late update. I did write to Stena about being driven away from a looked-forward-to breakfast by oppressive music. They sent me a friendly response saying it wasn't supposed to be like that [so I guess I was the one who was unlucky, rather than those of you who said you didn't experience it being lucky], and offering me a free breakfast next time. I'm very happy with that response, and Hariwch-HvH will stay on my "decent routes to the continent" list.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top